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» Flare Sci-Fi Forums » Star Trek » Starships & Technology » Holodeck Safety Protocols? (Page 2)

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Author Topic: Holodeck Safety Protocols?
Aethelwer
Frank G
Member # 36

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Wait, how can the holodeck dematerialise something it didn't create?

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Registered: Mar 1999  |  IP: Logged
Aban Rune
Former ascended being
Member # 226

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All the holodeck can do is create holograms. Replicators in the holodeck are used to create "real" items. There's never been anything shown where the holodecks can alter things it didn't create and I personally don't think they can. In the DS9 ep "Business as Usual", Gaila shoots a holgraphic phaser at Quark. When it hits him, it looks like a small forcefield comes up to protect him from being hit. We could assume that the holodeck prevents lethal blows by creating forcefields or making objects it created intangible as they make contact with the person involved.

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TSN
I'm... from Earth.
Member # 31

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Well, it's been shown that the holodeck does, in fact, use replicator technology to create real objects (e.g. Data took the drawing of the E-D off the holodeck in "Elementary, Dear Data"). If a holodeck can replicate matter, why can't it de-replicate matter (as the replicators do when you finish your meal and stick the dirty dishes back in)? And, finally, if a holodeck can de-replicate the things that it replicates, why can't it de-replicate anything? Aside from maybe a certain degree of unnatural uniformity, there's no difference between replicated matter and regular matter.

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"Alright, so it's impossible. How long will it take?"
-Commander Adams, Forbidden Planet


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Lt. Tom
Ex-Member


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We've agreed that the holodeck can make it look like two people are, say, 100 meters apart. Now in order to do that, it has to keep track of where everybody really is. For that to happen, the holodeck has to at least be able to recognize things that originate outside the holodeck as being separate from its program. (I've just realized that the same thing applies to costumes, props, and the like.) Now, you design a safety and hardwire it: Dematerialize only that which is part of the program.

"Computer! Delete Ensign Redshirt!"
"Unable to comply."
"Computer, disable safties and delete Ensign Redshirt!"
"Safeties disengaged. Unable to comply."
...at which point Ensign Redshirt will be high-tailing it out the exit.


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Cartman
just made by the Presbyterian Church
Member # 256

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You know what? I think the only EFFECTIVE safety protocol that those pesky SF engineers in the future could come up with is the one that doesn't allow holodecks! "Force-field bubbles"? Ahum ahum. If a room has a certain physical size, then only so many people would physically fit into it, no matter what it looks like... thus, you can forget about cramping twice as many objects inside because everything in that holochamber is virtual. Also, for each individual occupying the holodeck, the view must be realistic, i.e. the right perspective etc. and that gets kind of impossible to maintain if the holodeck is completely filled with people. "Holographic threadmills"? Even more ahum ahum. When the HD is inactive, you can walk around inside the chamber and touch the walls, like you can in any ordinary room. Now activate the HD (and project a nice little background scenery ). You're standing in a threadmill, so no matter if you move your legs, you will still continue to occupy the same physical location, but whatever you see from your perspective will depend on the direction you tell your legs to take. In other words, what you see would have to be projected on the inside of the "force field mill". Now imagine this: the entire chamber is 100 square meters (say 10 by 10). On each "square" stands on person, facing the exact center of the chamber so that there are 100 people in total, all looking at some sort of central object. Then, they activate the HD and walk toward this object. What will happen? In reality, no one moves at all (if there is indeed a threadmill system), but in the projection (assuming that they appeared to be standing about 5 meters apart from one another) they are gathered around the central object as closely as possible, so that there are say 5 people per square. This is turn would mean that anyone who would look "through" his/her forcefield would see 4 others on the same square (there is a yellow squared "grid" on the floor). Then, everyone turns around and starts running in the opposite direction. Of course, they don't move an inch (except the forcefield mill which "floats" them in the air bit, back to their original starting point). Everyone would see a rapid projection to make it seem they were running. When they have all ran some yards they stop and turn around once again. Physically, they would now be standing close to the walls of the HD, but they would see things as if they were all some yards apart from one another. And then... you know what, I'm loosing it here... holodecks are DANGEROUS not only to your body but also to your mind!

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"Cry havoc and let's slip the dogs of Evil"


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Cartman
just made by the Presbyterian Church
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Oh and please don't mind the spelling errors I made accidently => "have ran" etc

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"Cry havoc and let's slip the dogs of Evil"


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TSN
I'm... from Earth.
Member # 31

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Hm... I didn't quite follow your point there, but okay... :-)

And Lt. Tom is right. The holodeck could be programmed to disallow deletion of real people. However, if this were not explicitly written into the holodeck's workings, it would be physically possible for it to "remove" real people from the program...

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"Alright, so it's impossible. How long will it take?"
-Commander Adams, Forbidden Planet


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Starbuck
"Replicate some marmalade, Commander - helm control is toast!"
Member # 153

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Somehow, I don't think the Federation engineers would build the holodeck as a Hoffa Machine

For the unenlightened - a Hoffa Machine is a device which allows the user to turn someone else into Jimmy Hoffa, ie. vanished without a trace

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"Replicate some marmalade, Commander - helm control is toast!"


Registered: Jun 1999  |  IP: Logged
Saltah'na
Chinese Canadian, or 75% Commie Bastard.
Member # 33

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1) No. Timo said it best. Nanoprobes are just too complex to replicate. Even the Doctor took a lot of time to replicate nanoprobes to combat Species 8472.

2) Possibly. I'm not sure.

3) Actually, that problem still exists, even after the Bynars made modifications. Data threw a communicator at the wall in "Ship in a Bottle" when he realized he, Picard, and Barclay were trapped in Moriarty's Holodeck. How it works is simple: The Holodeck has some sort of Treadmill effect which keeps the user or users firmly planted in the centre of the Holodeck. This treadmill effect does not apply to objects that are thrown to a distance. So when Riker picks up a rock and throws it, he's trying to throw BEYOND the wall. No treadmill effect here, and the rock bounces off the wall.

4) I have some comments on Timo's answer. If B'Elanna can simulate Skydiving, then it is very possible for her to hit the ground hard if the chute isn't deployed. This shows that the Holodeck can simulate gravity. How this works is that the Holodeck keeps her in place while the ground rushes up to her. When she approaches the ground, the holodeck "flings" her to the ground with such force as to jumping off a cliff. Ouch.

I'd like to remind you that it you tried throwing a rock down a cliff, it may not work as it is like throwing a rock towards a wall.

5) Unless the Holodeck can replicate antimatter, then well, the ship would be toast. So therefore, I really don't think it is possible. A large

6) The treadmill effect can apply to almost everyone in the Holodeck. And yes, they probably use some sort of program like a lens to appear that they are very far away when they are not. As for the Baseball bat thing, I surmise that the end of the bat dematerializes to prevent hitting anyone. It's not supposed to hit anyone anyway. But if you are actually hitting someone with a bat and the safeties are off, then it WILL hurt.

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I can resist anything.......
Except Temptation


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Cartman
just made by the Presbyterian Church
Member # 256

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Hmm... I read through my own reply and I came to the conclusion that... some things in life (sci-fi life that is) are just too complicated to bother with When I started the message I had a general point that I wanted to make but I lost it after a few lines... I'm not even going to try or bother coming up with a new point because I will inevitably end up going down a dead-end again

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"Cry havoc and let's slip the dogs of Evil"


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Starbuck
"Replicate some marmalade, Commander - helm control is toast!"
Member # 153

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Um... Tahna...
I can see why Picard's comm badge might bounce, but Riker's rock was a holo-object. So how come the holodekc didn't behave the same as it would for, say, a baseball game, or a holographic taxi driving down a street?

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"Replicate some marmalade, Commander - helm control is toast!"


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TSN
I'm... from Earth.
Member # 31

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At that time, the holodeck had not been upgraded by the Bynars. Perhaps it was unable to compensate for something moving that quickly. It's quite possible that, if you ran quickly enough at the wall, you would hit it before the computer had time to notice and tractor you back away from it.

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"General Hammond: Request permission to beat the crap out of this man."
-Colonel O'Neill, Stargate: SG-1: "Bane"


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Starbuck
"Replicate some marmalade, Commander - helm control is toast!"
Member # 153

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One other point...
Tahna Los' long-winded reply seemed to be missing a chunk right around point 5 (or is it just my browser?). Anyone care to fill in the blanks?

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"Replicate some marmalade, Commander - helm control is toast!"

[This message has been edited by Starbuck (edited November 25, 1999).]


Registered: Jun 1999  |  IP: Logged
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