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Author Topic: Peace in the Middle East!
Jason Abbadon
Rolls with the punches.
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Finally, a true and lasting peace has been reached, based on tolerance and putting aside the past in a genuine effort to live in peace with the best intrests of the populace in mind.
Thank God this day has finally come to the Holy Land.

Okay, maybe not.


Any opinions of just how far this clusterfuck will go?
Declared sustained open warfare?
How much is Iran manipulating events here? that seems to be the big concern on the minds of talking heads on the news.

It occured to me today that there has never been real peace in that region in my lifetime...

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Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering.
-Aeschylus, Agamemnon

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Ritten
A Terrible & Sick leek
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There hasn't been peace in the Middle East in a very long time.

Iran could be helping things along, using it as a cover for their nuke operations.

The talking heads on the news can go screw themselves, as most all they do is sputter what is usually obvious.

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"You are a terrible human, Ritten." Magnus
"Urgh, you are a sick sick person..." Austin Powers
A leek too, pretty much a negi.....

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Veers
You first
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This will only get worse if Israel bombs Syria. Then they'll retaliate, and we could be looking at a full blown war. Right now, however, it looks like it will remain more of the same for the next few days, with Israel bombing targets and killing more civilians (100 or so have died already) and with Hezbollah still shelling Israel.

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Meh

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Mars Needs Women
Sexy Funmobile
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How soon do you think the U.S. will somehow be blamed for all this by Arab nations like Iran? This could be the catalyst for more aggression against us.
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Jason Abbadon
Rolls with the punches.
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Well, Iran will blame "Western Aggression" which amounts to the same diffrence....and of course, most of Israel's best shit is U.S. made so...

Hezbollah really stepped in it this time- kidnapping soldiers (photogenic ones no less!) in a half-assed notion that they could be used as bargaining chips...
Dumb.

As to the "over 100 civillians killed already", that's likely accurate, but hardly reflective of Israel's rolling deathtoll to Hezbollah terrorism.

Consider the response if a foreign power started firing rockets into US or British towns and kidnapping it's soldiers- makes Israel seem like the most paitent of nations.

Of course, the response from the Hezbollah/Palestenian side is always "we're at war with Israel" so anything goes...but if that's the case, cam Israel really be condemned for fighting a war to their utmost capibility?

Kofi Annon seems to think so- calling this "a disproportionate response".
It seems to hardliners Isralies that responding "proportinately" has not gotten anything accomplished in many years, so...
It's off to war they go.

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Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering.
-Aeschylus, Agamemnon

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The Mighty Monkey of Mim
SUPPOSED TO HAVE ICE POWERS!!
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Has there ever been peace in the Middle East? Never, you say? Oh. Well, we'll force it on them soon enough. God bless America, etc. Word!

-MMoM [Big Grin]

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The flaws we find most objectionable in others are often those we recognize in ourselves.

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Ritten
A Terrible & Sick leek
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quote:
Originally posted by Jason Abbadon:
Consider the response if a foreign power started firing rockets into US or British towns and kidnapping it's soldiers- makes Israel seem like the most paitent of nations.

Umm, ahhh, WTC, Afghanistan, Iraq.... cough, cough, sigh.....

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"You are a terrible human, Ritten." Magnus
"Urgh, you are a sick sick person..." Austin Powers
A leek too, pretty much a negi.....

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Sol System
two dollar pistol
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Perhaps some background reading: In the Party of God. (Written in the now sadly brighter days of 2002.)
quote:
Blanford, who has good sources in the Hezbollah leadership, said, "They seem to be convinced that sooner or later there's going to be an Israeli-Arab conflict. In the long term, Israel cannot put up with this threat from Hezbollah." It seems clear that in ordinary times Israel would already have moved against Hezbollah. But these are not ordinary times. Intelligence officials told me that Israel cannot act pre�mptively against Hezbollah while America is trying to shore up Arab support for, or acquiescence in, a campaign to overthrow Saddam Hussein. To do otherwise would be to risk angering the Bush Administration, which needs Israel to show restraint. One Israeli Army officer I spoke to put it bluntly: "The day after the American attack, we can move."

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Jason Abbadon
Rolls with the punches.
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Intresting, but not particularly accurate- consider that Israel went with Sharons wildly unpopular pullout from the Gaza Strip and really tried to go the non-military route (the accolades of the international community at the time probably helped in this regard), but now Sharon's gone and the new Israeli leadership has (untill now) been seen as weak.

I really dont see a diplomatic solution to this unless the hostages are returned and then the international community calls for Israel to back down- any UN action against Israel without the hostages' return would be seen as soft on such acts and terrorism in general (and the US wont stand against it's ally under those circumstances).

Besides, if Hezbollah was convinced a conflict was inevitible, why would they foster continued aggression? Why be seen as the aggressors?
Was there some shake-up in their leadership as well between the quoted paragraph and today?
quote:
Originally posted by Ritten:
quote:
Originally posted by Jason Abbadon:
Consider the response if a foreign power started firing rockets into US or British towns and kidnapping it's soldiers- makes Israel seem like the most paitent of nations.

Umm, ahhh, WTC, Afghanistan, Iraq.... cough, cough, sigh.....
The obvious comparison, but look further- to even petty attcaks on a soverign power, like the Falkland Islands skirmish.
For a power, capable of overwhelming retaliation, to do nothing (or very limited retaliations) in the face of sustained attacks (as Israel has) is extraordianry.

As example, can you imagine Cuba lobbing rockets into Florida? Calls for "Proportionate Response" would be heartily laughed off.

No one would tolerate the crap Isreal has- but now that it's all hitting the fan, where will it end?

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Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering.
-Aeschylus, Agamemnon

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Cartman
just made by the Presbyterian Church
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"Consider the response if a foreign power started firing rockets into US or British towns and kidnapping it's soldiers..."

Except Hezbollah is a non-representative group of radicals, not a foreign power, which is where your analorgy and parallel to the Falklands conflict run aground.

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Sol System
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Well, kind of? I mean, they do have twenty-three seats in Lebanon's parliament. I don't present this as justification; but they aren't a ghostly, ungrounded presence like al Qaeda, and this seems to me to be an important distinction.
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bX
Stopped. Smelling flowers.
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And while Israel's response has been comprehensive (to put it politely), it would seem their goal is not so much the obliteration of Hezbollah with missiles and bombs (as if that were even an option), but to demonstrate to the Lebanese people what a liability this radical and violent group is to their nation and thereby to leverage change from within. The degree to which this strategy might be considered wise or effective is of course still open to debate.
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Cartman
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Considering the strong anti-Syrian sentiments among the population and in the majority coalition of Lebanon's parliament, I think such a "demonstration" is the last thing they need to cultivate change.
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Jason Abbadon
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So what?
quote:
Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, like his general, pointed the finger at Lebanon, not just Hezbollah.

The raid was "not a terror attack, but an operation of a sovereign state without any reason or provocation," he said. "The Lebanese government, which Hezbollah is part of, is trying to undermine the stability of the region, and the Lebanese government will be responsible for the consequences."

Hezbollah, which enjoys substantial backing from Syria and Iran, is considered a terrorist organization by the United States and Israel. The group holds posts in Lebanon's government.

Hezbollah uses Lebanese military equipment and intel to carry out their operations- any foreign power would have to treat them as part of Lebanon.
Britan and the US certainly would, if attacked by Hezbollah.
Israel's restraint is in not attacking Syria and Iran (despite the known ties) but in only attacking the people most directly responsible.

Sucks to be the adverage Lebanese person, but you get the government you vote for (or is it the government you tolerate to rule over you in this case?).
If enough Lebanese people called for the release of the Israeli prisoners, it might just happen.
Hezbollah cant afford to alienate everyone...can it?

--------------------
Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering.
-Aeschylus, Agamemnon

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Cartman
just made by the Presbyterian Church
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Right, so now you're just pulling out the canned "they made their own bed, now they all deserve whatever Israel does" response, is that it? Because if you are, there's really not much left to discuss in this thread.
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