posted
O.K., I haven't seen the finale of Voyager yet, (assuming it's been played), but seeing as how the Borg queen appears to be back, I thought I'd start a little debate over what she is exactly. We've sort of covered this before, but it's a very interesting subject I think. I'm just going to start off with my theory. Then you guys can rip it to shreads
In FC, the Borg Queen tells Data, "I am the Collective." Also, the fact that she keeps popping back up after apparent deaths seems to suggest that she is not limited to a physical form. My theory is that she is an intelligence that exists within the Collective. She can be anywhere she wants and everywhere within the Collective. She literally IS the Collective. When she wishes, she takes a physical form to experience an event first hand. All Borg ships are capable of generating a body for her (and she seems to prefer the use of females from this one particular species for her bodies). She is not an individual or separate from the Collective, but rather the individual embodyment of the Collective Mind.
Have at it.
------------------ "A gathering of Angels appeared above my head. They sang to me this song of hope, and this is what they said..." -Styx
posted
I think you have got a very sound theory there.
What has got me thinking is that it looks like the Queen hasn't got TOTAL control over everything that is Borg.
Some facts: - In 'Dark Frontier' we see Seven tell Janeway to destroy a node of somekind that kills the contact with other Borg. - In 'First Contact' we see the Queen wave her hand to halt several Borg.
It seems like some part of control is put into the (or: a) Queen's body. And when that body or the transmission node is destroyed, the Borg in the immediate surroundings are deactivated. To me that doesn't imply a collective mind...
------------------ Meddle not in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!
posted
The Queen could be an emergent lifeform within the Collective - a sort of a mental parasite that sprung up at one point when the Collective became complex enough. She would use the Collective as her host body, and toy with it. That way, she would "be the Collective" because she has taken control of all the relevant functions of the earlier more equality-oriented Collective.
Perhaps the Collective isn't all that fond of this kind of parasite, but is helpless to exorcise the Queen from the system. Or at least it cannot do it without doing damage to itself.
posted
I�ve always thought that the analogy of an ant-society to be a good parallell. The queen there is born and runs the collective. If a queen dies, a new one is ready to take its place. And here�s a thought, in ant-societies, they send out queens and soldiers to establish new collectives. What if the Borg does the same thing?
------------------ "The Starships of the Federation are the physical, tangible manifestations of Humanity�s stubborn insistence that life does indeed mean something." Spock to Leonard McCoy in "Final Frontier"
posted
I think that the deactivation of Borg near the Queen when she dies or when a node is destroyed implies an overload or the inability to deal with such an abrupt change. The Borg close to the Queen would be receiving instruction directly, not buffered or filtered by the Collective. Then all the sudden, the direct source of their info is cut off and the Queen has to "reboot". I can see where this would lead to problems for some of the drones.
------------------ "A gathering of Angels appeared above my head. They sang to me this song of hope, and this is what they said..." -Styx
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posted
Pin'A'Sov:
Your comparison with the ant "society" is IMHO not entirely accurate: ants are relatively simple lifeforms without (we don't really know) self-awareness. The Borg, however, are very much selfaware. I think that what happened is that sometime in the Borg history (before they became linked) all of their people agreed to some sort of "vote" in which they were asked (really, really speculative I know) to join this new cybernetic consciousness they had come up with (not very dissimilar to what is occuring on our planet now, the integration of the Internet into everyone's lives or the implementation of micro-electronics into our bodies for instance could be the beginning of a society not unlike the Borg). The "Queen" could have been a high member of the pre-Borg civilisation (the Empress so to speak) who either voluntarely or forcefully became the "manager" (the network server to use a computer term) of this new joined life.
I wish the ST writers would spend some more time on this Borg history instead of coming up with stupid VOY episodes which we've already seen twice. It would be worth it.
------------------ "Cry havoc and let's slip the dogs of Evil"
posted
I think the collective recognizes that there are occasionally advantages to being an individual, even with all its limitations. That's why the queen shows up when she does. Dealing with individuals effectively requires individuality. The queen is created when she is needed. Now when she's disassembled is another question...
She is the embodiment of the collective, more or less. She just has the advantages and disadvantages of being an individual, too. Thus, "I am the Borg".
------------------ "This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!" -- Adolph Hitler, 1933
posted
TEL: So, the Borg queen is basically a galactic SysOp? *L*
Personally, I'm all for treating every mention of the Borg in FC and VOY in the same light as ST5. However, if it must be counted, I think I like what Timo and Aban said...
------------------ "Numerous painful experiences can be caused by having (and especially using) a large penis." -J. Ralf Lenz, president, Large Penis Support Group
posted
I've been ok with the Borg up till now. Sure, I'd like them to emphasize the collective nature more, but that can be hard to do in a visual medium.
posted
Janeway: "It's been a long time, how are things in the Collective?"
Queen: "Perfect. And Voyager?"
I miss the terrorfying, single-minded Borg of past where the mere mention of the Borg would scare the crew and if a starship was in the same sector of a Cube it would run like hell out of there.
------------------ "If at first you don't succeed, skydiving isn't for you." Federation Starship Datalink - On that annoying Tripod server.
posted
Hobbes: Yeah! Since when can a single Federation ship hold it's own against a Borg vessel. I mean they were still able to adapt the phaser rifles, so what the heck was preventing them from blowing the Hell outta Voyager? Chakotay's iron will? Me thinks not. And since when can they out run the Borg? And since when do the Borg not pursue?
In some ways they've gotten more terrifying. They have transwarp now and should be everywhere. But then, they're not. They should be more powerful than ever. But then, they're not. They're just not an original enemy any more.
------------------ "A gathering of Angels appeared above my head. They sang to me this song of hope, and this is what they said..." -Styx
posted
In some ways it is so very typical of Star Trek.
Every major adversary is weakend down and eventually there is a point where the Federation turns them into a friend.
------------------ "From where I'm sitting now, the plot is manacled to a monorail with a GPS system stapled to its buttocks." - Jim Wright, about 'Unimatrix Zero'
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