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Author Topic: Bonaventure (again)
The Mighty Monkey of Mim
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Well, you guys, upon close examination of screencaps, it has been discovered that the S.S. Bonaventure actually has a registry of (yes, I know it's really wierd) 10283NCC. The NCC-S2100 number is incorrect, and I have no idea where it came from. (I had just assumed it was from the ep, but this is untrue. It must have just been a further distortion of the NCC-S1100 number from Mandel's erroneous blueprints from the U.S.S. Enterprise Officer's Manual.)

Anyhow, the correct number is 10283NCC. You can all update your shiplists. (All of you who even use TAS ships, anyway...) Now, as far as what this wacked-up reg means, I'll first let you guys read some highly interesting speculation done by Curt Danhauser at his TAS site, because it helps to bridge to what I'll talk about next.

quote:
From www.danhausertrek.com

In the original series episode "Where No Man Has Gone Before" which took place in 2265, the U.S.S. Enterprise crew mentions the S.S. Valiant which was launched a hundred years before (2065), on a deep space exploration mission. The expedition is lost and is eventually swept out of the galaxy. The ship is nearly destroyed while trying to return across the energy barrier at the outer edge of the galaxy. In the transit, some crew members gain dangerous ESP powers. So the Valiant is a warp-driven vessel launched in 2065.

In the animated episode "The Time Trap" which took place in 2270, after seeing the S.S. Bonaventure in the sargasso sea of ships, Scotty says, "Captain, there's the old Bonaventure. She was the first ship to have warp drive installed." Then Spock added: "The crew's descendants may still be living, Captain." The Bonaventure looked similar to a Constitution-class ship, and had similar markings. Spock makes indirect reference to the era in which the Bonaventure had been launched when he said "The crew's descendants may still be living, Captain." If the Bonaventure was lost as late as 2199 (70 years before the episode) then given the longer life expectancy in the 23rd century, Spock probably would have said that "some members of the crew could still be living", since crewmembers in their early 20's in 2199 would be in their 90's in 2269. If we assume that by "descendants" Spock meant at least grandchildren, not direct offspring of the crew, then the Bonaventure could have been lost no later than 2149 or so to ensure that living offspring of the crew would be very unlikely (age about 120 years if born just after ship was lost).

So far, we can say that the Bonaventure was lost sometime after 2063 (launch of Phoenix), but before 2151 (launch of Enterprise), and definitely not later than 2199.

In the animated episode, "The Counter-Clock Incident", McCoy says about Sarah April, "Jim, I didn't realize how many of the tools I use in sickbay were designed by Sarah." To which Sarah replies, "As the first medical officer aboard a ship equipped with warp drive, I'm afraid I had to come up with new ideas all the time." We can see that there are sufficient examples of inaccurate pronouncements of "first starship," so we may be able to suggest that the Bonaventure was not "the first ship to have warp drive installed", but perhaps the first with "modern" warp drive which may be a warp 2 engine. This allows us to place it after the Valiant's launch. In the movie STAR TREK: First Contact we learn that in 2113, the first united Earth government was established, and in "Broken Bow," the premiere episode of Enterprise, we learn that in 2119, the Warp 5 Complex is established to create technology that will allow humans to safely explore deep space. The Bonaventure would most likely have been launched after Earth's world government was established (2113), but before the Warp 5 complex was dedicated (2119). Thus, the Starfleet-appearing markings (the red stripe) on the hull could be the united Earth insignia which was later carried over into the Starfleet markings (a fitting homage to Earth - the founding member of the UFP). So 2115 could be the date when the Bonaventure was launched.

My personal theory now is that the Bonaventure was perhaps the first Starfleet ship to have warp drive installed. (Note that "warp drive installed" could mean a number of things, including possibly that the ship was not originally built with warp drive but it was later installed. We can't say for sure.) This would point to a launch date of somewhere around 2136, which falls solidly within the range of time that fits with Spock's comment. In fact, it's a theory that fits with most of the circumstances surrounding the ship.

The seemingly-high registry could be a carryover from a previous organization such as the UESPA, or whatever the precursor to Starfleet really was. Its "backwards"-looking orientation could be simply an earlier form of the registry system we know today or, again, a continuation of a previous agency's scheme.

That's my conjecture, anyway.

Here's some eye candy for y'all, too:

1. Masao's updated schematics with correct registry. (http://lobotomy.pleh.net/~flareupload/uploads/646/Bonaventure10283.jpe)

2. A page from Kail Tescar's TAS site featuring the computer model work of Thomas7g, which is exquisite. I don't know if seeing this ship in 3D changes anybody's mind about its so-called "ugliness," but I thought it was worth a try... (http://mainengineering.hispeed.com/tas_t7g.html)

Enjoy!

-MMoM [Big Grin]

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Amasov Prime
lensfare-induced epileptic shock
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I taped all the official episodes, but I should have included TAS, too. 10283NCC - Oh my god, it's an Apollo-class ship! [Wink]

No, really, I think we should put this into the same box where we put the Nash and most of our Voyager tapes and hide it where no one will ever find it. Leaving that topic and adding my valuable thoughts (stop laughing... [Mad] ) to the other problem. In my opinion, Bonaventure doesn't need such a difficult explanation. Phoenix was the first ship with a warp drive ever. Enterprise is the first ship with a warp 5 engine, maybe even the first ship bulit and launched by Starfleet. But starfleet (or UESPA or whatever) existed some 20 years prior that date. Which means Bonaventure could have been the first ship assimilated into the newly formed Starfleet after the organisation's foundation (maybe previously an UESPA science vessel or something). Alternative would be: The ship was the first Starfleet vessel equipped with a warp drive. But this leads to the fact that Starfleet was founded without having any warp-capable vessel ([hint]Enterprise-intro Valiant-type ship[/hint]). You can anls combine both variants, but this shows one thing: there's plenty of space left to fit that ship into the timeline.

But what the hell does that registry mean??? (Did nobody check the episode for such things before releasing it? [Roll Eyes] )

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MinutiaeMan
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Or you could just give up and admit that TAS really is non-canon like most of the right-thinking world... [Razz]

Seriously, you can't apply the traditional definition of "Star Trek canon" to the TAS series, and to a lesser degree some incidents in TOS. Heck, the whole concept of canon never existed then.

Quotes which were mentioned above, like the Bonaventure being the first ship to have warp drive installed and Dr. Sarah April being the first doctor aboard a warp drive ship, are absolutely impossible to integrate into Modern Trek's timeline. We all know now that Phlox was a heck of a lot more inventive than Sarah April, and that the Phoenix was the first ship with warp drive.

I've never seen any of the TAS episodes, but I've heard that at least some of them have some interesting stories to tell. Nonetheless, this mission to integrate the series with canon is certainly futile. It stretches the purpose of speculation and rationalization to the breaking point.

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“Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.” — Isaac Asimov
Star Trek Minutiae | Memory Alpha

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Spike
Pathetic Vampire
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Maybe she wasn't the first medical officer, but the FMO (like Chief Medical Officer).

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"Never give up. And never, under any circumstances, no matter what - never face the facts." - Ruth Gordon

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The Mighty Monkey of Mim
SUPPOSED TO HAVE ICE POWERS!!
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quote:
Originally posted by MinutiaeMan:
Or you could just give up and admit that TAS really is non-canon like most of the right-thinking world... [Razz]

Seriously, you can't apply the traditional definition of "Star Trek canon" to the TAS series, and to a lesser degree some incidents in TOS. Heck, the whole concept of canon never existed then.

Quotes which were mentioned above, like the Bonaventure being the first ship to have warp drive installed and Dr. Sarah April being the first doctor aboard a warp drive ship, are absolutely impossible to integrate into Modern Trek's timeline. We all know now that Phlox was a heck of a lot more inventive than Sarah April, and that the Phoenix was the first ship with warp drive.

I've never seen any of the TAS episodes, but I've heard that at least some of them have some interesting stories to tell. Nonetheless, this mission to integrate the series with canon is certainly futile. It stretches the purpose of speculation and rationalization to the breaking point.

It's no harder to integrate than much of TOS. We seem to manage that all right.

-MMoM [Big Grin]

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Dukhat
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I've just looked at the only screencap I'm aware of of the Bonaventure. Although Monkey is correct in stating that NCC-S2100 is definitely not the ship's registry, I'm not so sure 10283NCC is the right one, either. What I see is a definite "102" on the nacelle, before the nacelle juts outward. On the jutting part is where two more characters can be seen, but to me they look like they could be anything, from "83" to "II" to "3D," or perhaps they're even just two holes in the nacelle instead of markings. Finally, the larger end of the nacelle is where the "NCC" appears.

Is there a clearer 'cap that I'm not aware of?

quote:
It's no harder to integrate than much of TOS. We seem to manage that all right.
I think the producers of Enterprise might disagree with that statement. [Wink]

[ June 20, 2002, 14:03: Message edited by: Dukhat ]

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"A film made in 2008 isn't going to look like a TV series from 1966 if it wants to make any money. As long as the characters act the same way, and the spirit of the story remains the same then it's "real" Star Trek. Everything else is window dressing." -StCoop

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The Mighty Monkey of Mim
SUPPOSED TO HAVE ICE POWERS!!
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I don't know of a clearer one that can be seen on the web than this one from Kail's "Time Trap" page, but it was supposedly through a very painstaking study of the ep that the number was discerned. I can definitely see it now if I look really hard.

And by "we" I mean us fans, the ones who must take what TPTB give us and make do the best we can with it. I know Rick and Brannon couln't care less about TAS or TOS...

-MMoM [Big Grin]

[ June 20, 2002, 14:11: Message edited by: The Mighty Monkey of Mim ]

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Dukhat
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I don't think it's a matter of B&B "caring less" about TOS or TAS. I think it's more of a matter of using ideas established in a show produced almost forty years ago, versus a more realistic, contemporary view of the Star Trek future. It also has to do with trying to be internally consistent with every other little bit of ST minutiae for those same forty years. If it weren't for people like Okuda, it'd be damn near impossible. That's why I keep saying that Enterprise isn't so much a prequel of Star Trek than it is a remake.

And I agree with your statement that we're the ones who must take what TPTB give us and make do the best we can with it. However, if the best that I personally can do with some of the things presented to me is to ignore them, then ignore them I will.

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"A film made in 2008 isn't going to look like a TV series from 1966 if it wants to make any money. As long as the characters act the same way, and the spirit of the story remains the same then it's "real" Star Trek. Everything else is window dressing." -StCoop

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Sol System
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I don't think Phlox has invented anything so far.
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MinutiaeMan
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Well, by "inventive" I meant his proclivity towards using unconventional treatment methods.

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Star Trek Minutiae | Memory Alpha

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Sol System
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Other than the space leech?
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capped
I WAS IN THE FUTURE, IT WAS TOO LATE TO RSVP
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if we find it in our hearts to disregard those two digits (even if they are there, they are on a different plane as the reg, and therefore maybe unrelated to it), we could surmise 102 NCC, possibly an odd way of saying NCC-102. i think Bonaventure would fit nicely into the 2160s-2180s Federation.

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