posted
I think the post war Starfleet is in for some major upheval. On one side the Picard type officers will want to return to an exploritory role, while other more conservative elements like Admiral Ross will advocate pumping funds into military projects (and perhaps even section 31) We have seen a truly devious side of this presumably exploritory agencyn (albeit clandestine elements), commiting acts of genocide against the founders, attempting to remove the Bak'Ku, bringing the Romulans into the war, as well as producing the Quadrants most powerfull warships. The season six episode 'sacrifice of Angels' was such a poignient title because the people sacrifycing their lives were scientists and explorers and didn't want to be in that situation, whereas the Red Squad mentality seems to be spreading throughout starfleet and turning it into an elite military order, bristling with Quantom torpedo's, regenerative shields, and backed-up by a KGB-like section 31. IF Picard and other like-minded officers take some kind of action, there could even be a full-scale internal conflict on the cards, dare i say it....civil war?
-------------------- The disappearance of Donald Love
Registered: Jan 2005
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posted
It sounds like it would be interesting to watch. Star Trek is about people, after all, and it would be interesting to watch the dynamics between people following such a traumatic war: those who want to prevent another war by building up the military, and those who want to return to more peaceful pursuits. Maybe when the ruckus has died down, the next Star Trek will once again be about interesting people, rather than interesting visual effects...
-------------------- "Brave men are vertebrates: they have their softness on the outside, and their toughness in the middle" -Lewis Carrol
Registered: Jan 2005
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quote:as well as producing the Quadrants most powerfull warships.
What, the Prometheus? Or do you mean because Janeway delivered a fast-food serving of phase torpedoes and generative ablative armor courtesy of teh future? I'm sure the guys on Earth promptly destroyed it because "humanity wasn't ready for that kind of power" and it would dishevel the balance of intergalactic martial power for future writers.
Bones McCoy:
quote:Star Trek is about people, after all, and it would be interesting to watch the dynamics between people following such a traumatic war: those who want to prevent another war by building up the military, and those who want to return to more peaceful pursuits. Maybe when the ruckus has died down, the next Star Trek will once again be about interesting people, rather than interesting visual effects...
M*A*S*H 2400! IT IS IN SPACE NOW.
Registered: Aug 1999
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posted
He might be refering to Gul Dukat's rant about one of the most heavily armed ships in the quadrant being in the hands of Maquis terrorists. Which was obviously a load of BS on the part of Dukat to in order to make himself seem even more taken advantage of. The Defiant consistantly proved to be durable and scrapy, but certainly nothing nigh-invulnerable.
WizArtist II
"How can you have a yellow alert in Spacedock? "
Member # 1425
posted
ANY ship that happens to be the centerpiece of a Trek show is AUTOMATICALLY invulnerable to everything but the self-destruct. I've seen other posters talking about Excelsior class vessels having their saucers melted after a couple of hits. But, of course none of their crews had their own series....
It is a MAJOR inconsistency within trek how little damages some ships take and others get pounded but don't show a scratch. I tried comparing this to WW2 U.S. Navy ships of similar class. Most notably the Yorktown class. Of the three ships of this class, one (Enterprise) took very few hits, had a stellar career and was, I believe, the most decorated warship in U.S. Naval history, One (Yorktown) was continually beat up and finally sunk at Midway, and the third (Hornet) was the launch platform for the Doolittle Raid, participated in the South Pacific before being severely damaged and finally sunk by her own escorts.
This is why it seems so unrealistic for a series ship to take pounding after pounding and cruise right through and sisterships to get annihilated in three salvos. To me, it always seemed that the TOS Enterprise was always vulnerable while the ships of the other series were "shields at 10%, rerouting plot device to deaux ex machina.... enemy destroyed... ship back to normal". Did anyone else ever truly feel that ANY of the other series ships were REALLY in danger of getting whacked for good?
-------------------- There are 10 types of people in the world...those that understand Binary and those that don't.
Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
Yeah I was thinkin about Dukat's comments but also Kira's that 'not even the Deffiant can take those kind of Odds' or something to that effect, implying its power. Plus it had engaged the Borg all the way from The Typhon sector to Earth, and as far as we know was the only ship still standing at that point. The Promethius is an animal by any standards, as (apparently) are the Akira class ships-according to their designer Alex Jeager anyway!
-------------------- The disappearance of Donald Love
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posted
I don't think there's any way to say how many of the ships present by the time the Borg got to Earth were first responders. I mean, presumably they were getting reinforcements the entire time, as fast as they could get there, but as to which ship arrived when? There's nothing to such speculation.
Re the relative power of various ships: Surely, even if Star Trek ships were real and we could go look up the exhaustive specifications, the question of "who would win in a fight" wouldn't be answerable just by those numbers. I mean, the Prometheus can outgun a couple Romulan Warbirds? OK. But whose officer culture pays the most attention to intelligence reports? Does the totalitarian nature of Romulan society bolster the morale of their crews or weaken them? And so on and so on forever.
Like, it depends on what you want to do with them, I guess is what I'm trying to say. Which goes back to Starfleet being a big organization with lots of room for diverse goals, I suppose.
(It is kind of interesting to think about, though. Real navies undertake scientific missions all the time, though usually with specific military goals in mind. ((Undersea topography, for instance.)) And I'd bet that the Napoleonic references Roddenberry drew on influenced Starfleet's hybrid status too, since such uses of military vessels were even more common then. NASA, of course, isn't in any hurry to arm their astronauts, but that's because they have an exceedingly small chance of being shot at; though NASA undertakes Defense Department missions all the time; less so these days, I gather, since the Air Force prefers to launch its own stuff. I suppose this is the time for an SG-1 reference; it even features a hybrid scientist-soldier. Or I guess two, really, though I am thinking more how Daniel started out as the smart guy everyone else had to watch out for, and now he is more often than not doing the heroic commando things himself. Incidently, Carter reminds me of what I was going to say originally, which is that I'd be less sorry ((in the, hey, these people sure didn't get what they bargained for sense)) for the "fighting scientists" than I would be the people who go to Starfleet Academy just because it is a good school, and who aren't looking to spend much time in Starfleet itself; but, then, there are plenty of real-world examples of that as well.)
[This is painfully nerdy.]
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
I recently purchased some Next Gen DVD's recently and have been looking over them, and to be honest its pretty clear that Picard is not typical of Starfleet officers, in fact only Bashir seems to share his attitudes toward morals. Maddox's attempt to force Data into dissassembly, HaFtel's attempt to compel Data to surrender his daughter to starfleet, Jallico's comparison of Cardassians to timber wolves and his refusal to put any effort into negotiations, Maxwells anger management issues, Nacheyev's order to destroy the Borg at the next opportunity, Layton's attempted coup (supplimented by many other loyal officers) Sisco's deception to bring the Romulans into the war, Janeway allowing the Borg to beat 8472 just so her ship could pass through their space. Kirk's reference to Klingons as animals, Doughty's attempt (council backed!) to remove the Bak'ku, Ross's part in the probable execution of Cretak As locutus said "Picard would never have approved"
-------------------- The disappearance of Donald Love
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quote:Originally posted by Grand Admiral Thrawn: Plus it had engaged the Borg all the way from The Typhon sector to Earth, and as far as we know was the only ship still standing at that point.
Except for the tons of other ships buzzing around the area which were in alot better shape than the Defiant.
If you mean that the Defiant is the only ship that was mentioned early on and actually seen in the battle as it approached Earth, there's no evidence of that none of the other ships flying around hadn't been in the initial engagment too.
posted
Fair comment, but the Deffiant we know was at the initial engagement in the Typhon sector and survived all the way to Earth. Likewise we know the Borg (like the Jem Hadar) prioritise their targets, this would explain why there were no Galaxies and why the admirals ship had been destroyed. IF the Deffiant is a warship, then the Borg would surely have been giving it special attention from the word go. On a different note its interesting that the Cube in first contact seems unable to lock onto any ships with a tractor beam but instead seems to be using conventional weapons (projectiles etc) surely a sign that starfleet had addapted its nutation techniques. The damage to the outer hull may also be a result of Quantum torpedoes, maybe these were the new weapons Shelby was talking about still being on the drawing board in the best of both worlds...
-------------------- The disappearance of Donald Love
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posted
The Borg had the Defiant in a tractor beam when the Enterprise arrived. The first thing they did was to take out the tractor beam holding the Defiant.
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