First off, after downloading the latest drivers for my graphics card, I decided to first uninstall my old drivers since the last time I didn't do this and it caused a few problems. Next, before installing the new display drivers I rebooted the machine, like you do, and lo and behold I get a blank screen. Why? because my monitor is on DVI-D and since I uninstalled the drivers, the PC no longer knows how to talk to it. "No Problem" I said to myself, "I'll just plug in to the serial port" except of course, when I looked at the back of the computer there isn't a serial port...well there is, but it's the wrong gender (pins out) so the cable won't fit. "Ok, Plan-B!" I said, "I'll stick the hard drive in another machine!" except of course by HDs are all SATA while the other machines in the house are ATA, so again, the cables won't fit and now I'm stumped! Feel free to point and laugh or (preferably) point out a blindingly obvious solution that I failed to think of!
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
You lost me at "I'll just plug into the serial port" - plug WHAT into the serial port and how will this change things?
Yeah I know - no real help, only moral support! Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
I meant plug a monitor into the serial port on the motherboard as opposed the the DVI-D ports on the graphics card. Sorry, that wasn't very clear was it.
Posted by Saltah'na (Member # 33) on :
No, the PC should know how to talk to it regardless of what input you're using. Does the PC show any information on the screen on DVI-D before it logs into Windows? Can you get into BIOS? If you are unable to see anything from boot up to the OS loading, you may very well have a dead monitor or video card.
Press F8 when you are loading up your machine, between POST and when the Windows screen starts to come up. Select VGA mode and you should be able to get in. You'll need to reset your display settings as well.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Well that's odd, it's all working now without my doing anything. I wonder what that was all about!
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
Note: in common computer geek parlance, that's not a serial port. Serial ports usually refer to the 9-pin connection that ancient mice and other peripherals used. Monitor 15-pin connections are usually referred to as the VGA (or, more rarely, RGB) connection.
As for ATA/SATA problems, I feel your pain.
When I bought this computer, I'd intended to move an old storage drive to it. I looked online and found a SATA adapter, but it was crap and did not function. And, I didn't even consider the fact that even the power supply has changed, so I needed something for that as well in order to power the old hard drive and the adapter. Although I saw reference to adapters online, in my impatience I simply bought a new power supply. That is probably okay since the original was both small and literally had no other connector types at all, meaning any special maneuvers I might make would each require some adaptation, which in the end could get expensive depending on what I chose to do.
So at present, I have the new power supply with its old and new connectors powering everything, and the old hard drive connected to SATA by way of a ribbon-cable-width adapter circuit board which accepts a SATA cable and plugs into the back of the hard drive directly.
And no, this entire operation wasn't annoying at all.
(I lie!)
Posted by The Ginger Beacon (Member # 1585) on :
I used to build my computers as a hobby/ cheap skate-purse pinching-money saving exercise. The last time I tried I found all the connections had changed, nothing was compatable and the whole thing is still in a box in my loft 'cause I gave up and bought a laptop.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by Reverend: Well that's odd, it's all working now without my doing anything. I wonder what that was all about!
I've had that happen when moving cards before. I freaked out. Then I left it for a while, turned it on just to see - and it just started working. I too was like "what the!?!". Posted by Da_bang80 (Member # 528) on :
I never uninstall my old drivers when updating and I've never had a problem doing it that way.
Although if you're really adamant about uninstalling the old drivers first, rebooting in safe mode beforehand would have probably saved you a bit of a headache.
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
Speaking of computer hijinks, I have an issue that I need to figure out.
My girlfriend had just finished paying off her laptop when she stepped on it (nrg) and cracked the screen. She managed with this for a couple months until she dropped it and the screen stopped working altogether. She bought a used replacement screen and when I installed it, the screen worked fine but the backlight failed to come on and there was a buzzing sound coming from the computer, almost like a bad ballast. I swapped out the backlights and all I would get was the Toshiba boot up screen at which it would stick and slowly fade to white. Now, however, I only get some vertical lines and that's it. I don't know what to do! She's already given up and started looking at new laptops but if I can get this working again I can have it...
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Well obviously all you have to do is take it away and don't let her have another one since she clearly can't be trusted with a laptop!
Seriously though, it sounds like it's given up the ghost. You're lucky it worked at all after being trodden on AND dropped. Just whatever you do, don't let her anywhere near your machine!
Posted by Pensive's Wetness (Member # 1203) on :
I found this while Dling L4D maps *=(L4D. yum.)
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
What are L4D maps?
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
Left 4 Dead, apparently.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
I think we need a sticky thread so everyone can moan about their computers buggering up without starting a new thread everytime.
...Anyway, I've some minor gremlins I've been unable to smoke out and thought I'd put it to the brain trust and see what you lot make of it!
Of late, when I've tried to install certain things like driver updates and new games, I get this message saying: -
"The Windows Installer Service could not be accessed. This can occur if you are running Windows in safe mode, or if the Windows Installer is not correctly installed. Contact your support personnel for assistance."
Well it ain't in safemode and I've done the usual round of googleing to get the windows installer reinstalled (though it's still right there in the system 32 folder) and found a number of solutions, none of which appear to work. It's not been a huge issue so far, (though it pops up every time I start Mass Effect 2) more akin to that persistent squeak in the back of your car you keep telling yourself you'll track down, but actually just ignore and live with it right up until the suspension goes *prang*
Any ideas?
Posted by Axeman 3D (Member # 1050) on :
Sounds like the installer is missing or buggered. First off, I assume you've tried these fixes...
and tried reregistering the service by doing this...
1) Boot up in safe mode (pressing F8 repeatedly while it boots) 2) Then in Run Command type msiexec /regserver 3) restart in Normal Mode
Your next best bet is to find what broke the damn thing. Usually it's some spyware or malware interference, or occasionally a virus. Run you antivirus and also get Malwarebytes Antimalware or Lavasoft Ad-aware and run scans to clear out the more obvious stuff. Once done, retry the original fixes. Dont try any other spyware removers from the interweb, they're usually malware themselves and will hold your PC hostage for money with hundreds of fake alerts.
Another option is to use your Windows disk as a repair disk. If you (or someone you know) has a genuine WinXP disk you can boot from the disk and choose to repair your windows install, and it will attempt to put all the vital files back into place.
One final thing you might try is to get a hold of a program called ERD Commander. It creates a 'live disk', a CD you put into your PC and boot from that takes the place of your hard disk, so you dont even need a hard drive in your PC to get going. It allows you access to the C drive without it running, which is great for fixing issues with Windows and permissions problems since you're not actually running windows. It has tools for reseting passwords, saving data and for comparing and repairing corrupt windows files. It's a life saver.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Yup, tried both of those before and no joy. I did actually get a nasty virus a few weeks back (first time in years) it killed my firewall and virus scanner then pretended to be the windows security suit and insisted I had to by something or other to fix the 20 million spywares and viruses it "detected". A safemode reboot plus virus scan and system restore later at it appears to have been fixed, but I suppose it's possible it still did some damage on the way in.
I'll download that Malwarebytes thing and give it a go, see what happens. If not then it's time to dig out the old XP disc.
Posted by Da_bang80 (Member # 528) on :
You've played ME2? Me too.
I've been running into a couple irritating bugs with that game, got stuck on a parked hover car in the omega market next to the prophet. I got stuck on the picnic table on horizon and a really weird one where your avatar gets locked facing one direction but you can still move the mouse and shoot, oh ya and while it was stuck like that I couldn't get behind cover while facing the scions at the defense tower control, Argh...
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
I've encountered a few bugs, but not very often and not very severe. Reloading a quick save usually fixes things. Considering that I'm only running a 2.67Ghz Intel core duo with 2GB RAM and an older Nvida 8600GT it's running really quite well, even with nearly maxed out settings.
I get the odd bsod, but I'm pretty sure that's down to the drivers, which I can't seam to update. Hopefully fixing the windows installer will allow me to update my drivers properly. If not then I'll just have to put up with it.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Ok, none of that worked so I'm about to dig out the old windows install disc, though before I do anything potentially destructive, will using the repair facility wipe the hard drive or leave my various crap intact?
[Edit] Ok, I don't know what I've broken but all of a sudden Mass Effect 2 is taking up 90% of the CPU and intermittently acting as if it's running on a ZX81. This is what happens whenever I try to fix something, it only makes it worse!
Posted by Axeman 3D (Member # 1050) on :
A windows repair just reinstalls the main kernel files, it doesn't touch your data. it's not reinstalling the whole thing. Sounds like your virus damaged Windows, might be best to save all your crap to an external drive and do a complete rebuild, completely formatting the drive. It's drastic, but it works in 100% of cases.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Well I have two internal drives, one of which has the windows folders more or less in it's own partition away from most of the "program files" folders and most of my various crap. Would a full system wipe go over the partitions or just stick to the "C Drive" partition? You can tell I don't bugger around with this stuff very often if I can help it! Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
A wipe will only clear the drive you tell it to. So, if you have a C drive with only Windows files, a D drive that's a partition on that same drive for program files, and an E drive for all your data, you're good to go.
Posted by Axeman 3D (Member # 1050) on :
If I do a rebuild I actually remove the partition and recreate it, effectively wiping all data on the physical drive. If you move your stuff to the second internal drive you'll be fine, as long as it's a seperate physical drive and not just a partition on a single drive.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
That might take a bit of doing as I'm rather short on storage space as it is. I think I'll try the repair first, then if that don't work start burning off back-up DVDs and reformat the physical C drive.
[ March 05, 2010, 10:56 AM: Message edited by: Reverend ]
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Gah! This is why I never went into IT support! Tried booting from the windows disc, got onto the recovery console and now it's asking me "which windows installation would you like to log onto" which seams reasonable enough, although the only option it's offering is "D:\windows" whereas the current OS is on the C drive. I'm tempted to just take it on faith that somehow it's shifted the drive letters, but I don't want to run the risk of wiping out the D partition before I've backed anything up.
Looks like it's a full OS wipe down and reinstall after all! This'll take me bloody ages to sort out.
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
There's always the option of using a LiveCD of a Linux distro to back up your files.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Que? No hablo Linuxo.
Posted by Axeman 3D (Member # 1050) on :
That's what ERD commander is for, it's a live disc built for Windows and looks like Windows, so no hassles. It also has Windows repair and tweak tools built right in. Linux is a bastard nightmare to work, I hate it with a passion every time I go near one of the flavours of it.
No C: drive showing up? You might be royally screwed, the boot record may be knacked or some other real important info. Full wipe and rebuild time. You're right not to go into IT, it's a right pain in the bollocks and there's no money in it.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
This thread lasted this long without some smart arse saying "you should have bought a Mac"? I am impressed.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote:Originally posted by Axeman 3D: That's what ERD commander is for, it's a live disc built for Windows and looks like Windows, so no hassles. It also has Windows repair and tweak tools built right in. Linux is a bastard nightmare to work, I hate it with a passion every time I go near one of the flavours of it.
No C: drive showing up? You might be royally screwed, the boot record may be knacked or some other real important info. Full wipe and rebuild time. You're right not to go into IT, it's a right pain in the bollocks and there's no money in it.
Already done. Crammed everything into discs and my two, very small external drives and wiped out "first" physical drive. Gone mostly smoothly, but I bet it'll be weeks before I have all those little apps and tools you too often take for granted back in place. On the up side I installed the latest display drivers and the windows installer thingy worked fine. So mission accomplished I suppose.
Oh and smug mac users can go to the special hell reserved for hammond organ players, Man United fans and daytime TV presenters.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
If it makes you feel any better, one of my girlfriends friends has a Macbook Pro. Less than one year old, and it stopped working. She sent it off to be repaired, and they did indeed fix it in the same style that all cheap repair companies fix computers. They wiped it and reinstalled a fresh OS, losing all her data.
Our similarities unite us!
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
My brother is a mac freak and we're always sniping back and forth. The reality is though that he's had way more hardware issues with his various macs over the years than I've ever had serious software issues....loose heat sinks notwithstanding. Posted by Axeman 3D (Member # 1050) on :
Macs are nicely made, but getting software or upgrades for them is chronic. They couldn't be more annoying if they ran on Unicorn tears. PC's I can get upgrades for from the local corner shop. There's a reason why they have a tiny fraction of the market, and it's not just the sod-off pricing.
Posted by bX (Member # 419) on :
Yeah, boy, those Mac users sure don't know what they are missing. The fools. Proudly typing away, working on the stuff they want to be doing, glibly enjoying their machines when they could be erasing and reinstalling their operating systems and sweating over viruses and malware. There's not a day that goes by when I don't think of how much fun I'm missing out on just because I'm running this clean and beautiful and preposterously stable OS on beautifully crafted hardware. Brings tears to my eyes.
Posted by Axeman 3D (Member # 1050) on :
No one makes virus's for Macs because 96 of every 100 computers out there are PCs. You aim for them and not the niche market. Yes, they're well made and look lovely. No, they're not invincible, they're just not worth bothering with.
As for Linux/Unix, it's hard enough to get them working when you're sitting right in front of them with an instruction manual, let alone trying to do anything remotely.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
My main beef with Macs is that they cost twice the price of a PC. Twice the price! I could buy something for that price!
My love/hate relationship with iPhones is intense. I think they are wonderful, amazing devices. I think everyone who owns one is a tit who can't KEEP IT IN THEIR POCKET FOR MORE THAN 10 SECONDS. I want to own one. What do I do?
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Become a tit?
Posted by Axeman 3D (Member # 1050) on :
Join us tits, it's easy (and expensive, as all Apple products are). I hate Apple more than most, but I would chop yer hands off if you tried to take my iPhone away from me. I cant keep it in my pocket because I'm using it for so many things all the time. It's my clock, my radio, my guitar tuner, my satnav, my telnet client, my WiFi finder, my iPod, my solitaire game and my video camera.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
I'll stick with my sony ericsson thanks! It beeps when someone wants to shout at me, hence it stays in my pocket. Works like a charm.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
"I cant keep it in my pocket because I'm using it for so many things all the time. It's my clock, my radio, my guitar tuner, my satnav, my telnet client, my WiFi finder, my iPod, my solitaire game and my video camera."
That's the problem. You don't need to check your twitter feed while we're having a game of Fifa. You don't need to look at Facebook while we're out having dinner. You don't need to go on the imdb every single time a conversation comes up about a film at the pub. You don't need to look at the AppStore WHILE PEOPLE ARE TALKING DIRECTLY TO YOU.
While you are by yourself, go crazy. When you're with people, keep it in your pocket.
Posted by Axeman 3D (Member # 1050) on :
Oh, I have no problem with that. I'm old school, I despise people who consider their phones more important than the people in front of them. Teenagers are the worst, it's never out of their hands. Someone needs to hand out more slaps.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I hate all that crap- riding public transportation, I have overheard so many things I never wanted to hear- just a week back everyone at the supermarket's deli got to listen to half a woman's conversation about how she's cheating on her boyfriend. Why cant people just take that shit outside? Or wait for someplace vaguely more private...
I've gotten so annoyed that I've left my cell either at home or off when I'm not making a call- I just return people's calls now- and not in public.
What's worse,here in Flori-duh, the cell phone lobby has managed to block leglislation that would make it illegal to TEXT while driving. Fuck's sake- if they cant refrain from texting or web surfing or whatever while operating a car, we're all doomed. DOOMED I SAY!
Bring on the zombies.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
^That is exactly why I plug in my mp3 player on public transport. Audio books work best at blocking out random chatter as you have to actually pay attention, whereas music is just background noise you use to drown it out through sheer volume.
Mine was a fairly long commute so I went through a lot of books in a fairly short space of time. I think I got through all 30 odd Discworld books in just over 5 weeks!
Posted by Axeman 3D (Member # 1050) on :
How the hell can you text while driving? That would be harder than juggling while driving. I can only assume the state legislature want to kill off a few Floridians for their own nefarious reasons.
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
Its easier than you'd think. And no, I don't do it often.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
It's still really, really dangerous though. Is talking on a mobile illegal while driving over there yet?
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
In my province neither texting nor talking on the phone while driving is illegal yet, I don't think. Although I pull over when someone calls.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Reverend: ^That is exactly why I plug in my mp3 player on public transport. Audio books work best at blocking out random chatter as you have to actually pay attention, whereas music is just background noise you use to drown it out through sheer volume.
Mine was a fairly long commute so I went through a lot of books in a fairly short space of time. I think I got through all 30 odd Discworld books in just over 5 weeks!
You and I think alike- my tiny Scandisk is all that saves me- I have several dresden Files books and the entire Radiolab catalogue. I've got about an hour each way a couple of times a week. In South Florida most of the chatter is in creole or spanish- which seems louder somehow- maybe they're just passionate people riding the bus.
Are you downloading the books from someplace in particular?
Posted by Pensive's Wetness (Member # 1203) on :
*drags the topic, slightly off target*
Problem: the PW has many .avi files but his laptop Windows Media player doesn't have the codex for those movies. Task: Where can the PW find the codex for WMP to play with visuals for .avi files?
you may return to what ever you were masturbating to... Posted by Axeman 3D (Member # 1050) on :
Go download and run the K-Lite codec pack. It has the popular codecs you'll need for 99% of applications.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
And if that doesn't work, the Combined Community Codec Pack should.
Posted by Pensive's Wetness (Member # 1203) on :
*nods* i'll do it when im back home in May. its nice to have intranets here via the USO but it's still too small for real DLing...
Posted by Pensive's Wetness (Member # 1203) on :
DLed the K-lite (full), Ax weeeeeee, Macross frontier in view agains!
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
As a clarifying point, avi isn't really a "codec" as such, but a wrapper for something else. I think. Someone else could explain that better.
Posted by Axeman 3D (Member # 1050) on :
Would explaining logical layers help get his movie working?
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
Or just download "The KMPlayer", which is little known but badass. It works much like old versions of WMP but has all the codecs onboard, and they're good, too . . . to the point that on an old machine of mine where the CCCP or K-Lite codecs would still bog down on HD files the codecs for The KMPlayer would just play them effortlessly.
And you can reset the commands to do whatever you want, from frame-by-frame jog with the mouse wheel to whatever else you want. After dealing with professional-grade products that don't have frame-by-frame I found it entirely refreshing, and now will use nothing else.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
For fun today as I'm pretty sure my graphics card has given up the ghost, but I hereby submit the facts to you lot for a collective second opinion. Basically, when I try and reboot, I get a long beep and two short (which my MB manual says means "monitor or graphics card error") and surprise, surprise, there's no signal on either the monitor or the TV (which is liked via a VGA lead.) The PC is defiantly booting properly as I can hear the windows start-up sounds from the speakers and the monitor itself seams to know the difference between this and having the cable unplugged from the card (yes I checked all the connections.) I also removed and remounted the RAM and graphics card, the latter, as I discovered had it's fan CAKED is dust (the damn thing faces down so I couldn't really see the state it was in until after I'd taken it off.) I carefully cleaned up the fan and heatsink but still beeping and no video.
Anyone have any bright ideas, or do I need to go graphics card shopping? Actually, now that I think about it, I did notice some weird graphics problems while playing ME2 the other day; purple...stuff at the edge of the screen, more frequent crashes where before it had been pretty damn stable. Yeah, I think it's cooked...
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Go shopping- upgrade now and save the trouble in a couple of years...maybe make a monthly check of your computer's fan.
I also have problems- I'm not online at home right now and some shit was on a USB I save stuff on at work -some dumb bunny had one of our computers crawling with bugs thanks to her music which she had on the harddrive and it went from my USB to my desktop. I cant update my antivirus stuff because I'm not online and it's an annoying pop-up saying "missing shortcut" whenever I use the CD or USB slots.
sigh...I guess it the old "re-install" gag for me...
Hmm...can I put Spybot or something on a USB and install it on my PC from there?
Posted by Da_bang80 (Member # 528) on :
You can run a lot of programs directly off a USB drive. I keep some diagnostic programs on mine just for that very reason. AVG, Spybot, Adaware, The Ultimate Troubleshooter to name a few.
Rev, ya that sounds like your graphics cards is bricked. ME2 makes my pair of 4890's run pretty warm, not as bad as crysis or the MWLL mod though.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
In all honesty I'm surprised it's done as well as it did. It's only an nvida 8600GT. I initially had 4gb of RAM but one of the sticks turned out to be corrupt so I had to pull it which brought me down to just 2gb.
Problem is that I'm not working right now so I can't afford to do what I should and do a proper upgrade. I'll probably just get another 8600 as they're relatively cheep these days and see about getting an 8gb upgrade for the RAM without breaking the bank.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
...and for my next question, since I don't keep track of the latest hardware (or even the next to latest) and given that this is what I already have and doesn't appear to be sold new any more, what would be my next best bet? Not looking for a super powerful card-can't afford it for one and not sure my PSU & motherboard could handle one even if I could-but I'd like something reliable and likely to remain useful for at least the next few years.
Posted by Pensive's Wetness (Member # 1203) on :
now question? I just bought a HP Pavilion Elite (the HPE-410y)... and it didnt come with the media package (well, it doesnt have the cable-in mount so i suppose it does have the channel thingie either)... i have 2 older models from 2004-5 and i can scrap one of them for the media components & the huge mechanical external HD that goes in it's big bay on the left corner of the front...
my question is, will it work if i modify the newer bay (the doner CPU HP pavilion is the 1170n, with the bay, and a CD & DVD driver...)
if i take this unit to a local (not Best Buy, though i bought all my CPU's from best Buy) dealer/maintainer, you think its possible to caniblize from the 1170n to upgrade my HPE 410y
Posted by akb1979 (Member # 557) on :
Ah! Others are having computer problems...recently had an issue with one of my PC's where I couldn't connect to the Net and all applications were coming up with an error...think I got some sort of virus or other nasty thing while surfing and it wasn't caught...
Anyway, did a rebuild but now I'm having issues with my wireless USB device - keeps disconnecting from the Net and using another connection that my ISP has recently introduced...and then there's the issue of my PC "losing" the device and saying "new device found - gimme drivers".
Fortunately I'll be getting my first house soon so I'll be converting to a wired connection but I'm very annoyed with this turn of events - everything was working fine but now, even after the rebuild, it's iffy... Wish I knew how to get my wireless software to ignore the other connections...just can't figure it out. Posted by Pensive's Wetness (Member # 1203) on :
well the only part useable was the HD, the other parts because of thier connection type, unusable. which is fine, it became a source of donor parts for my dad's 'new' machine under the TV...
now the bad news...
after a week of glorious, GLORIOUS gaming (STO ships with little white blip-blip running lights, the warp cores going GOOY BOOM! DDO water reflective's under my toon's skirts LoL), the CPU died....
just the _ _ _ at the top left corner of my screen. So off to Best-Buy i go, to reinstall the OS and likely (i suspect) that removal of the older HD...
Posted by akb1979 (Member # 557) on :
Oh dear Pensive...that sounds awful...but how does the CPU dying result in the OS needing to be reinstalled? (likely a novice question)
Posted by Pensive's Wetness (Member # 1203) on :
i told em to wipe it (both HD's no data saving) & reinstall... just means that i gotta spend time to reload games plus the probably updates that best Buy doesnt update... sucks. playing games on the laptop but... ugh.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Hey, it's that time of the decade again where I try to figure out what RAM to buy and since I'm sure I'll never get this right, I'm asking you lot for (almighty Dagon help me) advice on what I should be getting.
So, what I have is a GA-P35-DS3L/S3L motherboard (at least that's what it says on the box) and it currently has 2GB installed that I'm looking to up to 8GB (I'm running XP now and I realise anything above 4 is a bit of a waste, but I plan on upgrading to Windows 7 before the end of the year anyway.)
Now the manual says it has four "1.8v DDR2 DIMM sockets, dual channel memory architecture" and support for "DDR2 1066/800/667 MHz memory modules."
I've looked around and found a few candidates I think should work, but I've buggered this up before and so I'm looking for some second opinions. So, this load of numbers mean anything to you lot?
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
The DDR2 1066/800/667 MHz bit is the bus speed that your board can handle for RAM. So, depending on price, you'd want to invest in DDR2 1066 MHz RAM. I'm not sure if mobos still have an issue of max RAM per slot (I remember the days where boards could only handle single-sided RAM) so that is something you need to look into. But, seeing as how the description says "dual channel memory architecture", it probably handles double-sided RAM no problem. So, you should be able to put in four 2GB sticks and be good to go.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
The performance advantage between 800 and 1066 isn't really in proportion to the price difference. If you really want 1066 and have the cash, sure, but you won't notice much difference in games or general use, outside the 2Gb->8Gb difference.
I got 8 Gbs of higher-end Kingston modules last winter, overclocked them and everything, got a few frames/sec better performance in games, as well as slightly faster application startup times. Then I upgraded from my old ATI 4870 to a 6950 video card, got about 60-70 more frames/sec at same settings.
So with RAM, as well as with SSD:s, don't put all eggs in one basket. I know I won't upgrade to SSD hard drive until I've bought a new motherboard that handles SATA-6Gbps, or the new SSD will get very bottlenecked.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Holy crap it's been almost a year and I'm still buggering about with this!
Well that's not technically true, I do keep meaning to sort the PC out but other stuff keeps cropping up and...well, yeah.
Alright, so for my next attempt at upgrading, I've been looking at getting four of these things. How big of a mistake would that be?
I still haven't gotten around to buying a copy of Windows 7 yet either (I'm assuming the 64 bit version is the one to get for working with more that 4GB of RAM, yes?) Anyone have any opinions? Seriously, I haven't so much as looked at a PC mag in half a decade and am so far behind the times it's not even funny!
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
I think Windows 7 can handle >4GB of RAM in 32-bit form, but I'm not sure. However, if you're building a new computer with new components chances are its going to be 64-bit anyways.
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
You need a 64-bit operating system to make use of >= 4GB (">=" because in practice, even 4GB cannot fully be addressed on a 32-bit OS for various technical reasons) of physical memory, win7-32 is just as limited.
Running a 64-bit OS also does not mean that all your old 32-bit applications will automatically be able to allocate more than 4GB, those need to be recompiled (in the typical Windows world read "repurchased", assuming the software is even available in 64-bit form) to gain any tangible benefit besides giving the OS itself more lebensraum.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
Cartman's right about the memory limit.
Then again, very few applications need more than 4 GB of RAM (even these days). Unless you're doing serious movie, photo, or music editing, individual applications probably won't run into that 4 GB limit. So having the 64-bit OS running 32-bit apps is not entirely a bad thing.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I've got a 64 system with 6GB of ram- nice and fast but playing older games can be a pain.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Amen. I also have a system with Windows 7 64-bit that hates any program that dates before 2006/2007. New games look pretty though. I'm currently having some trouble with Quicktime, seems its conflicting with Flash when trying to view certain online videos.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
OK, that tears it. My inability to play the new X-Com has convinced me it's time to upgrade to Win7!
Just asking for a consensus to make sure I'm picking the correct RAM (my specs are back a page.) In short, will this work on my motherboard?
Also, how badly does switching to 64bit bugger things up?
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
My parents both have 64bit versions of Win7 running on their laptops and there really isn't that much of a difference. Other than, when you get any software it has to be 64bit compatible. Had a hell of a time getting Office on there before I figured that out.
Posted by Saltah'na (Member # 33) on :
Reverend, I'm more concerned about your motherboard and why you still need DDR2800. The standard these days is DDR3. If I think what I think you have, I think it's time to get a whole brand new computer instead.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
^Don't have the cash mate. How much of a difference would it really make anyway? According to the specs my board can handle upto 8GB at 1066MhZ which I'm given to understand is plenty.
quote:Originally posted by Fabrux: My parents both have 64bit versions of Win7 running on their laptops and there really isn't that much of a difference. Other than, when you get any software it has to be 64bit compatible. Had a hell of a time getting Office on there before I figured that out.
I was thinking more in terms of software I already have ceasing to work on a 64bit system.
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
That is a distinct possibility. Does the software in question offer 64bit versions?
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Well my main concern is Paint Shop Pro X, which is about 7 years old, so I doubt it. I'm also a bit concerned about my steam games. I mean would I have to re-download everything? Actually, come to think of it I don't remember any program I've installed ever asking me to select 32 or 64 bit.
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
All 64-bit versions of Windows include a compatibility layer (called WoW64) so 32-bit software can run on them unmodified.
If some program does break it will be of old age.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
I'm fairly certain my mum is running PSPX on her Win7 x64 machine at home. A lot of companies haven't made 64-bit versions of their software yet, because the 32-bit version runs fine and the performance increase wouldn't be enough to justify it. That's changing as time has gone on, but the number of 64-bit versions (as opposed to 64-bit compatible) is still fairly small.
quote:Originally posted by Fabrux: My parents both have 64bit versions of Win7 running on their laptops and there really isn't that much of a difference. Other than, when you get any software it has to be 64bit compatible. Had a hell of a time getting Office on there before I figured that out.
The 32-bit version of Office 2010 and 2007 runs fine on 64-bit Windows 7. I'm pretty sure the 2003 version does as well. There is a 64-bit version of 2010, but we're not using it at work at the moment as it breaks a couple of third-party plug-ins, and it will cause out accountant guys to make spreadsheets 50 billion rows long.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
OK, so it finally happened. It is dead, gone, deceased, my PC is a late household appliance!
So....yeah. I'm building a new one and thought I'd best consult the brain trust and make sure I'm not doing anything drastically wrong in my selection of components.
I'm pretty sure the PSU & graphics card I still have are OK, so no worries there (hopefully!)
The OS may be a little tricky as while I do have a legit copy of Win7, it's one of those XP/Vista upgrade copies and it's on a HD who's original computer is long gone. I gather MS don't like you installing on more than one machine so I think the trick will be installing the new motherboard drivers manually before doing a reinstall/repair.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Legally, as long as you still have your XP/Vista licence key, you can install it fine on a new computer. You might have to phone them up but they will activate it. Otherwise you might try blagging it with them. Do you have the licence key for the Win 7 upgrade version? And do you have the DVDs?
Are you doing a full reinstall, or are you going to copy your old hard drive image over to your new machine?
One piece of hardware I would strongly recommend - a solid state drive. You can get 256GB ones for a bit over £100 nowadays, and they make a HUGE difference to your day to day life.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote:Legally, as long as you still have your XP/Vista licence key, you can install it fine on a new computer. You might have to phone them up but they will activate it. Otherwise you might try blagging it with them. Do you have the licence key for the Win 7 upgrade version? And do you have the DVDs?
Are you doing a full reinstall, or are you going to copy your old hard drive image over to your new machine?
That's where things get sticky. Basically what I have is the HDD I ripped out of my mum's old Dell desktop machine after she decided to get rid of it. It was originally pre-installed with Vista and later upgraded to Win7 (and yeas, I still have that disc.) Problem is that I imagine the Vista code was probably on a sticker in the case, which as far as I know ended up down the recycling centre.
The plan was to either just shove the HD in the new machine, manually copy over the appropriate chipset drivers and whatnot and hop the OS will run long enough to install them properly and maybe reinstall the OS from the disc.
Not sure if there's another way around it without resorting to...uh..."other means" but I'm open to suggestions.
quote:One piece of hardware I would strongly recommend - a solid state drive. You can get 256GB ones for a bit over £100 nowadays, and they make a HUGE difference to your day to day life.
Forgive me, but I don't really keep up with the tech trends. What's one of those and why are they so useful?
I do have a neat little 1TB USB3 samsung external drive that I've been using to salvage my data ready for the new machine, so storage space shouldn't be an issue.
Just to clarify though; have I made any poor selections with that hardware? I'm a bit wary of dropping over £500 only to find out something's incompatible or notoriously unreliable or something.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
You can read the Wikipedia article about SSDs if you want the details, but, basically, it's a lot like a flash drive upscaled to hard drive size. It doesn't have moving parts inside, so it's faster and less likely to break.
As for the Windows issue, I think the pre-installed OEM versions often (always?) are (license-wise, anyway) restricted to the computer they originally came with, aren't they?
Posted by Trimm (Member # 865) on :
An SSD will greatly improve program loading times, and if you install your OS on it, your comp's boot time will be much faster as well.
I'm told that if an SSD breaks however, there is no practical way to retrieve the data from it. That's why I keep all my documents on a normal hardrive and just run programs off the SSD.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
It does look useful, but I'm already at the upper limit of my budget so it's not really worth it at this point. Especially if I'm going to end up having to buy a new copy of Win7.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote:Originally posted by TSN: As for the Windows issue, I think the pre-installed OEM versions often (always?) are (license-wise, anyway) restricted to the computer they originally came with, aren't they?
I'd imagine so. However, in this case, while the OEM Vista was pre-installed by Dell (which is still probably lurking in a hidden partition) the Win7 upgrade disc was purchased from Amazon, so I'm hoping all the Dell stuff was expunged.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
...Well that went better than I expected! Huzzah?
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Well, my point was that, as far as Microsoft is concerned, you're probably not allowed to install that copy of Vista on another computer. That being the case, I'm not sure that they would consider it okay to upgrade a copy of Windows that's not "legitimate" to begin with. But, then, this all depends upon whether you're concerned about following Microsoft's byzantine licensing procedures in the first place.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
At this point it looks like Microsoft are more interested in pushing Windows 8 than making sure everyone with a copy of Windows 7 hasn't managed sidestepped their frankly bonkers licence agreements.
I think I managed to get away with it because 1) the upgrade disc(s) are for both Vista and XP, the latter of which requires a fresh install (which is what I ended up doing) and 2) the previous upgrade/install was done with the 32 bit version, while here I've installed from the 64-bit disc.
I do vaguely recall something in the licence agreement about the product key being good for more than one activation, so what I've done may actually have been legit. Still, not sure what will happen if/when I have to do a full system reinstall a few years down the line. Hopefully they don't have that stupid limited number of installs policy like SecureRom. That'd suck.
By the by, I have to say going straight from XP to Win7 (never even touched Vista when it came out) feels surprisingly good. Especially since I was running XP in classic mode. Couldn't stand that plasticy green and blue look. Blech.
The weirdest thing though it having over 900GBs free space on my hard drive. Feels very empty...is it even possible to get agoraphobic with a digital storage device? Well it is now! Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Just to check, did you do a straight Windows 7 install, or install XP and then upgrade it? Because doing the second is...icky.
And yeah, you'll probably be fine. Technically you are almost certainly in violation of the licencing agreement (Tim is right, an OEM licence is only valid on the original hardware). Just because it has worked, doesn't mean it is legal. BUT, since it has worked, I wouldn't worry about it. Microsoft are rather unlikely to track you down. At worst you might find Windows becomes "unactivated" one day, and you can cross that bridge when you come to it. Likewise, I wouldn't worry about what you'll do with a full reinstall a few years down the line. You're unlikely to be reinstalling Windows 7 at that point.
And to be fair to Microsoft, they have many many many many horrendously confusing licencing things, but they mainly apply on the company side. For the home user, all you have to remember is:
OEM: Original equipment manufacturer licence. Only valid on the original hardware it was installed on. If you bought a PC, this is the licence that will be on it. If you buy an OEM Windows licence, it will be assigned to the first machine you install Windows on. It can't be reassigned.
Standalone: Can be installed on a machine and transfered to your heart's contect.
Upgrade licence: Can upgrade either of the above licences to a newer version of Windows. Original licence rules apply. (That is, if you upgrade a Vista OEM licence, you end up with a Windows 7 OEM licence.)
Congratulations though on finally getting rid of XP. Just don't make the classic new operating system mistake, which is trying to make it work like the old one. Embrace the new start menu, taskbar, and all that jazz. Going from XP to 7 it's pretty easy. Certainly easier than going from 7 to 8 (although even that isn't as bad as a lot of people make out.)
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
quote:Originally posted by PsyLiam: Just don't make the classic new operating system mistake, which is trying to make it work like the old one.
I resemble that remark. This is why my taskbar and Start button is always at the top of the screen . . . I have always gone "up" to do stuff since Windows 3.11 (or even the StupenDOS DOS shell) and by golly I like it that way and ain't changin', ya scallywags.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
When I started working at my current place of work, one of my first jobs was to streamline the installation of new computers by creating baseline images. It was 2006 so we were using XP. I asked how it was done in the other (German) sites. One of them apparently had a guy whose job was to install Windows 98 on a machine, which he then upgraded to Windows XP. I asked why, and was told that it was because that is what he had always done.
Germans are crazy.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote:Just to check, did you do a straight Windows 7 install, or install XP and then upgrade it? Because doing the second is...icky.
The former. You can't to a straight upgrade of XP like you can with Vista, you basically have to do a fresh install. Calling it an upgrade appears to just be a licence agreement technicality that still baffles me.
quote:Congratulations though on finally getting rid of XP. Just don't make the classic new operating system mistake, which is trying to make it work like the old one. Embrace the new start menu, taskbar, and all that jazz. Going from XP to 7 it's pretty easy. Certainly easier than going from 7 to 8 (although even that isn't as bad as a lot of people make out.)
XP has been very good to me over the years and I'd hold onto it if I could be the hardware has finally left it behind.
I'm not 100% up to date though, at least not on the gaming side of things. My GPU can't run Direct X 11 (or 10, I think) so if there are any games that won't run without it I'll be stuck. Haven't come across any yet though and from what I can tell, it's not worth worrying about for the time being.
quote:Germans are crazy.
Shh! Bernd might be lurking! But yeah, they can be a stuborn single minded bunch. I recall an incident in one of my old jobs; the manufacturer of one of out main products was a German subsidiary. At some point before my time a design fault was discovered in the internal modem and was causing issues, so they were instructed to cease installing that particular model in favor of a newer one that actually worked properly.
It takes a while to cycle through the stock so it was ages before anyone flagged up that the issue was still occurring with the new model. After testing & retesting the new component we couldn't reproduce the error and we double checked that the serial numbers that were having problems were the newer units...then someone finally cracked open one of them and discovered that the newer units...ALL of them...were still being fitted with the old faulty modems.
We assumed it was some clerical error at Germany's end (yeah, I know, we should have known better than assume *that*) but as it turned out they were well aware. When asked why they were intentionally installing components known to be faulty, the response that came back was something to the effect of "because we have so many of them left in stock and we need to make room." o_O
...Bloody nutters.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
..and the next question for the brain trust; anyone know anything about optimal airflow inside a pc case?
I ask because the case I got is one of those inverted ones with the PSU at the bottom and the access panel on the right hand side requiring the motherboard to be installed upside-down.
What's worrying me is that this means the GPU is also the wrong way up, with it's heatsink on top pulling air down and that I have an exhaust fan right above it pulling air up. I think I might be creating a hot spot but I'm not sure what to do about it.
The only two options I can think of are to flip one of the to top fans to blow fresh air directly onto the GPU heatsink or take the the rear fan which it pulling air out, flip it to an intake and mount it on the side panel right next to the GPU.
What worries me with either of those two options is that I may create a deadzone of air in the middle and actually increase the ambient temp.
Advice anyone?
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
MOAR FANS
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
That's what I thought, but the bloody thing is about to start hovering as it is, plus I'd have to run a 3-pin Y-splitter off the CPU's radiator fan.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Are you sure you haven't got the case upside down?
*cheeky*
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
.....Doh! =P
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
Unless GPU-Z or similar show your GPU running too warm while under load, I wouldn't worry about it.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Is 69C too warm? Because that's what it's peaking at with Skyrim running.
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
That's a touch higher than I prefer, but then I am not a big gamer so have little basis of comparison. And by "a touch", I mean single digits. But I am sure it also depends on the card itself.
I wouldn't sweat it until about 80, and wouldn't worry until pushing 90.
Actually, I guess you can rank it against the TOS warp scale, dividing by 10. 1-6 are cruise, 8 is official max, but we saw it hit 9 and at 10 it will just go in circles. At 14.1 the fan has been destroyed by fecal impact.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
It's often hard to judge temperature readings because they vary from motherboard to motherboard, usually depending on where the actual sensor is based.
A better judge might be the fans. Are they running full pelt all the time? How long after starting a game does it take for them to increase in speed? Is the paint peeling on your wall where the heat from the back of the case is hitting it?
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Kind of hard to judge the speeds by ear since these things are pretty quiet and using SpeedFan is a bit deceptive since the second I alt-tab out of a game the temperature drops like five degrees.
I'm also a bit weary of using speedfan to accurately gauge the speeds since right now it's showing them at 1172, 990, 1570, 4441 & 0 RPM. That last one must be a faulty sensor because I can see them all running and the 4th one I suspect is actually the CPU water pump which I think runs off the CPUfan header.
I suppose I could use the charts function and see what the variance is with a game running.
I'm honestly a bit lost with this since my knowledge has always been amateur at best and this thing is showing me readings from 14 different sensors which are right now ranging from 25 to 57C.
I will say though, that I have the thing right next to me on my desk and it can get pretty warm sat here at times.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Slight emergency. One of the three hard drives is making a terrifying twanging sound which I'm pretty sure means one is going to fail soonish. I have the case open in an attempt to listen and determine which one, but I honestly can't tell where the noise is coming from. I'd rather know which before it fails so I can save the data, so does anyone know a *quick* and easy way to do this?
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
....aaaaand it's dead.
The good news is it was the 'D:' drive which mostly had my steam library installed, so I don't think I've lost anything irreplaceable.
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :
That sucks. My last laptop died from a hard drive failure. I had most of my shit saved on an external drive, but still sucks. Replaced it with an Asus Q550L.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
This should be a reminder to have a solid backup solution for all your drives!
I don't know what tools would be used on a PC anyway, so I don't have anything more useful than that.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
I have most of my vital files backed up on an external drive, but the reality is it's just not practical to refresh it all that often.
In this case the only real inconvenience is having to re-install all those damn Skyrim mods!
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Uh-oh, now the other one is acting up! Note to self, in future, don't try and use old hard drives in a new machine!
Not to worry, the new 1TB drive should be more than enough. I assume I'll have to wipe it if I want to migrate the OS across since it needs to create a bootdisk partition, yes?
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
No, you can install Windows fine without having to format or wipe the hard drive first.
Question... Have you got SMARzt enabled in the Bios? It sometimes provides early earning signs of imminent hard drive failure.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Really? I thought if you partition a drive you have to reformat it in the process? If so, then would it be possibly to simply copy across the contents of C into the new partition? And what about the boot & system partitions; can they be copied across safely?
As for the BioS...I have no idea. Generally I don't like to bugger around with things I don't understand. :/
[ December 18, 2013, 08:40 PM: Message edited by: Reverend ]
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Uh-oh. Clicky-clicky-twang...time to shut down and switch to the laptop! Luckily I was able to shrink the drive and create a 90GB partition plus over 200MB spare capacity before the death throws started, so I should be OK for space.
Given the drive is now unreliable, I take it the best thing to do is to remove it and re-install the OS from the recovery disc & system image I made? Does that also take care of the boot & sys partitions or do I have to jump through some more hoops?
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Well this is infuriating. Trying to install from the recovery disc and it's not reading the image backup! I have it on both my health HD and my external and there's no option for me to manually enter the file path. The only options it's giving me are "search for a system image on the network" or "install a driver". Tried the last one in every visible file in the backup folder to no effect.
Bloody machines!
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Why are you partitioning the drive? If it's because you want to have separate OS and data drives? Are you installing multiple operating systems? Or is it just because Windows needs a boot partition?
I'm not 100% certain, but I believe that if you only have one OS, then none of this applies. I think that Windows can just use one partition for everything. The easiest way to see is to try it. Assuming you're using Windows 7 or 8, I think that the installer will tell you if you're about to wipe all your files. At worst, I think it might rename any Windows folders you have on the hard drive.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Yeah, I habitually have the OS on a partition all of it's own. I forget the exact reason, but I was always told it was safer and easier to recover from errors that way. Maybe that's an obsolete precaution these days, I'm honestly not sure.
Anyway, I ended up reinstalling Win7 from scratch which is a bit of a pain. Still have no clue why the backup image didn't work!
Not out of the woods yet though as it appears to have thrown up some teething problems. Specifically it looks like Avast is slowing down my internet connection, youtube buffering and even interrupting downloads. I don't know if the culprit is really Avast or there's just some conflict between it, Chrome and/or flash, but given that it's even messing with Windows update downloads I think it's a safe bet.
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
Sounds like a Linux maneuver being applied to Windows... not a terrible plan generally but in my PC repair travels I have rarely if ever seen a single partition choke, though in fairness I also have rarely seen single drives of multiple partitions anyway. YMMV, but I don't think it hurts anything and may be fantastic on the day you have that partition choke.
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And no, I don't do it often.
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Wish I knew how to get my wireless software to ignore the other connections...just can't figure it out.