The CIA has asked the Justice Department to investigate allegations that the White House broke federal laws by revealing the identity of one of its undercover employees in retaliation against the woman's husband, a former ambassador who publicly criticized President Bush's since-discredited claim that Iraq had sought weapons-grade uranium from Africa, NBC News has learned.
MSNBC.com's Alex Johnson with NBC's Andrea Mitchell, MSNBC
And here I thought the adults were in charge over there.
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
Well, that will teach you to think now won't it...
I should stop listening to CDs and play a news station once in a while, or find time to read a paper....
Posted by Jay the Obscure (Member # 19) on :
quote:Bush Administration Is Focus of Inquiry CIA Agent's Identity Was Leaked to Media
-----
The intentional disclosure of a covert operative's identity is a violation of federal law.
The officer's name was disclosed on July 14 in a syndicated column by Robert D. Novak, who said his sources were two senior administration officials.
Sources familiar with the conversations said the leakers were seeking to undercut Wilson's credibility. They alleged that Wilson, who was not a CIA employee, was selected for the Niger mission partly because his wife had recommended him. Wilson said in an interview yesterday that a reporter had told him that the leaker said, "The real issue is Wilson and his wife."
A source said reporters quoted a leaker as describing Wilson's wife as "fair game."
The official would not name the leakers for the record and would not name the journalists. The official said there was no indication that Bush knew about the calls.
It is rare for one Bush administration official to turn on another. Asked about the motive for describing the leaks, the senior official said the leaks were "wrong and a huge miscalculation, because they were irrelevant and did nothing to diminish Wilson's credibility."
Wilson, while refusing to confirm his wife's occupation, has suggested publicly that he believes Bush's senior adviser, Karl C. Rove, broke her cover. Wilson said Aug. 21 at a public forum in suburban Seattle that it is of keen interest to him "to see whether or not we can get Karl Rove frog-marched out of the White House in handcuffs."
Yet another example of honor and integrity being brought back to a White House near you.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
While I think somebody really needs to go to jail over this, remember that this administration employs John Poindexter. Don't get your hopes up for any real action coming from this.
You'll note the lack of media (TV)coverage.
Posted by Saltah'na (Member # 33) on :
Liberal media? Or not as liberal as Fo2 claims?
Fo2 will probably claim that it is a hyped piece of hokey.
Posted by newark (Member # 888) on :
My mother, a life-long Democrat, recieves notices from the party. In one of the notices, sent this last summer, the DNC mentioned this incident.
(Contrary to what you may be thinking, I am not a Democrat. I am an independent with no ties to any party.)
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
A Fellow Fence Sitter....
So, is Novak is trouble for this, since he actually wrote the name in his article?
Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :
quote:On July 14, Robert Novak wrote a column in the Post and other newspapers naming Mr. Wilson's wife, Valerie Plame, as a CIA operative.
That wasn't news to me. I had been told that � but not by anyone working in the White House. Rather, I learned it from someone who formerly worked in the government and he mentioned it in an offhand manner, leading me to infer it was something that insiders were well aware of.
I chose not to include it (I wrote a second NRO piece on this issue on July 18) because it didn't seem particularly relevant to the question of whether or not Mr. Wilson should be regarded as a disinterested professional who had done a thorough investigation into Saddam's alleged attempts to purchase uranium in Africa.
quote:What did appear relevant could easily be found in what the CIA would call "open sources." For example, Mr. Wilson had long been a bitter critic of the current administration, writing in such left-wing publications as The Nation that under President Bush, "America has entered one of it periods of historical madness" and had "imperial ambitions."
What's more, he was affiliated with the pro-Saudi Middle East Institute and he had recently been the keynote speaker for the Education for Peace in Iraq Center, a far-Left group that opposed not only the U.S. military intervention in Iraq but also the sanctions and the no-fly zones that protected Iraqi Kurds and Shias from being slaughtered by Saddam.
Mr. Wilson is now saying (on C-SPAN this morning, for example) that he opposed military action in Iraq because he didn't believe Saddam had weapons of mass destruction and he foresaw the possibility of a difficult occupation. In fact, prior to the U.S. invasion, Mr. Wilson told ABC's Dave Marash that if American troops were sent into Iraq, Saddam might "use a biological weapon in a battle that we might have. For example, if we're taking Baghdad or we're trying to take, in ground-to-ground, hand-to-hand combat."
Equally, important and also overlooked: Mr. Wilson had no apparent background or skill as an investigator. As Mr. Wilson himself acknowledged, his so-called investigation was nothing more than "eight days drinking sweet mint tea and meeting with dozens of people" at the U.S. embassy in Niger. Based on those conversations, he concluded that "it was highly doubtful that any [sale of uranium from Niger to Iraq] had ever taken place."
quote:Why would the CIA choose Wilson as the administration's fact-finder on the Niger uranium issue knowing that his wife's activities might become exposed? Well, in the same Robert Novak column that reveals the identity of Wilson's wife, Novak reports that it was Plame herself who recommended her husband for the job!
Shouldn't it have occurred to someone in CIA management that sending the husband of an agency operative on a highly sensitive, high-profile mission could jeopardize that operative's activities?
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
So Wilson's an ass. Still does'nt give anyone the right to potentially endanger his wife by publically stating she's a spook for the Company.
Wilson's political opinions are a matter of public record whereas his wife's (possibly dangerous) job is NOT.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
quote:Shouldn't it have occurred to someone in CIA management that sending the husband of an agency operative on a highly sensitive, high-profile mission could jeopardize that operative's activities?
Yes, they should never have allowed her to so blatantly jeopardise her cover by marrying a diplomat in the first place. Why, as the wife of an ambassador she might have to do such absurd things as travel widely abroad, and what on earth kind of benefit could that be to a CIA agent?
Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lee:
quote:Shouldn't it have occurred to someone in CIA management that sending the husband of an agency operative on a highly sensitive, high-profile mission could jeopardize that operative's activities?
Yes, they should never have allowed her to so blatantly jeopardise her cover by marrying a diplomat in the first place. Why, as the wife of an ambassador she might have to do such absurd things as travel widely abroad, and what on earth kind of benefit could that be to a CIA agent?
Does a lot of damn good if she doesn't go with him, doesn't it?
Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: Wilson's political opinions are a matter of public record whereas his wife's (possibly dangerous) job is NOT.
Apparently, that first reporter doesn't agree. Either that, or it's an incredibly badly-kept secret.
Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :
What's really interesting is that this is the only source of the "Iraq didn't try to get uranium from Africa" POV that's getting his credibility trashed here.
I mean, yeah, sitting around drinking tea. That's being investigative. If you're investigating life in the antebellum South, maybe.
Posted by Jay the Obscure (Member # 19) on :
You know what Robby-pooh, neither of those articles are worth very much when it comes to the allegations that someone at the White House confirmed that Mr. Wilson's wife was an agent with the CIA.
In the first National Review article, Mr. Day seems to alledge that he "knew" that Valerie Plame, Mr. Wilson's wife, was a CIA agent because he heard it "from someone who formerly worked in the government" who mentioned it to him in "offhand manner."
Well, there's proof for you. Take it to the bank, put-the-cat-out-and-lock-the-door proof.
And, and, I might add, I guess that since Mr. Day was somehow told something off the record that we're supposed to assume that not only does everyone now know about it but that it is now ok for someone at the White House to allegedly confirm it??
Then there's this:
quote:...leading me to infer it was something that insiders were well aware of.
Well, well, insiders knowing the names of CIA agents. Pardon me but isn't that the very sort of information that insiders are supposed to know? Isn't that the sort of thing that makes an insider different from an outsider?
Then, for some reason of importance which can only be found in some parallel dimension the article breaks away from the actual question at hand, someone at the White House allegedly breaking the law, to trash Mr. Wilson.
This trashing, I guess, I suppose, is I guess supposed to make the alledged leaking of the name by the White House legal because they, what, they just didn't like him??
If you'll pardon a bit of an outburst, the article is just dumb.
The second article, rather opinion piece, by Mr. Levin is even goofier.
quote:Wilson created the very circumstance he now complains about. He voluntarily drew attention to himself and, by extension, his family. He interjected himself into an intense international policy dispute regarding the war with Iraq.
According the Mr. Levin, Mr. Wilson brought this allegeded breaking of the law by the White House on himself because he spoke out??
Talk about blaming the victim.
This is akin to a citizen saying "No, no, you honor, I asked where the nearest 7-Eleven was, Mr. Gang Member didn�t like my tone, so he shot me. I caused him to break the law."
quote:While I'm all in favor of investigating national-security-related leaks, we'll never know if foreign-intelligence agencies, among others, had already learned of Plame's position thanks to the attention her husband drew to himself by taking the Niger fact-finding assignment in the first place.
Here's the un-written part; they sure know now, it appears that someone at the White House told them.
Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :
Robert Novak has made it a non-story by saying that no one at the White House "leaked" Joe Wilson's wife's name to him.
quote:"Nobody in the Bush administration called me to leak this. In July I was interviewing a senior administration official on Ambassador Wilson's report when he told me the trip was inspired by his wife, a CIA employee working on weapons of mass destruction.
"Another senior official told me the same thing. As a professional journalist with 46 years experience in Washington I do not reveal confidential sources. When I called the CIA in July to confirm Mrs. Wilson's involvement in the mission for her husband -- he is a former Clinton administration official -- they asked me not to use her name, but never indicated it would endanger her or anybody else.
"According to a confidential source at the CIA, Mrs. Wilson was an analyst, not a spy, not a covert operator, and not in charge of undercover operatives."
She is not a CIA agent, covert operative or spy. She's an analyst. I know an analyst, too. He's never said anything about his name being a secret.
Wilson has said that his wife was "outed" by the release of her maiden name, implying that she used that name as a cover to deceive the bad guys. The truth? Wilson's wife's maiden name is not only in the public domain, but he names her as his spouse by that name in his own bio at the Middle East Institute.
Posted by Ultra Magnus (Member # 239) on :
Tenet: "Operative."
He might know.
Also: Name in Middle East Bio Page != Reveal of Occupation.
Oh, no! Your name is Rob Farquar!
I would not guess Librarian.
Well, maybe not.
Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :
UM != counterintelligence operative, either. UM= -interested in learning if Agent name = mentioned name. CIntelOperative = +interested.
But that's what happens when you don't get the Matrix.
OTOH, IF maiden name = cover name Then maiden name mentioned anywhere, including bio = bad
Leak probably = old Clinton holdover. If Bush deserves criticism for anything, its not cleaning house properly.
In any case, you couldn't learn anything from searching "Rob Farquar" as that = not correct spelling.
I would not guess researcher.
I would be correct.
Posted by Ultra Magnus (Member # 239) on :
I think I will work on this sort of equalsign/english as The New Shorthand.
Posted by Jay the Obscure (Member # 19) on :
It certainly isn't a non-story when he keeps changing his version of it.
quote:But then there's this passage in a July 22nd article in Newsday ...
Novak, in an interview, said his sources had come to him with the information. "I didn't dig it out, it was given to me," he said. "They thought it was significant, they gave me the name and I used it."
One might ask, not me mind you, but someone else might ask, which version of his story is he lying about.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Just because she was'nt James Bond, hardly means her status as an operative is something the press needs to know or that it could'nt endanger her.
What if the Chief of Police in New York announced the names of all NYPD employees? Even if they were'nt beat cops or undercover cops, they're still entitled to their anominity: even if their freinds know their occupation it's not public knowledge and revealing it compromises their safety.
Add the fact that this "leak" was done as political payback and you've gone from irresponsible to criminal territory.
What if the democrats announced the names and addresses of President's immeadeate family? It's not too hard to find out, I suppose, but it would certainly put them at risk.
It's just political retaliation isint it? Nothing to get upset about.
Man, I really really am hating this administration's dirty tricks. Welcome to Nixon for the new century.
Posted by Jay the Obscure (Member # 19) on :
If this were Clinton, there would have already been independent counsel appointed.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
That is true, although I think in Clinton's case it was unwarranted. And I'm no Democrat.
Posted by Veers (Member # 661) on :
Orginally posted by First of Two:
quote:Leak probably = old Clinton holdover. If Bush deserves criticism for anything, its not cleaning house properly.
Ah, so it's Clinton's fault. Like always.
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
You know Rob, attacking Clinton whenever Bush is in trouble = Really Old Routine.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
And it'll get a whole lot older. After eighteen years in power the Conservative government here in the UK was still brushing off any criticism by saying they were doing better than the last Labour government. A week may be a long time in politics, but grudges last forever. Needle Rob enough and he'll probably start ranting about the New Deal. 8)
Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on :
Mind you, a retarded monkey could've done a better job than the last Labour government. Or this one...
quote: In his first public remarks on the affair, Mr Bush urged anyone with information to come forward, saying: "I want to know the truth."
It is alleged that administration officials leaked the name of the agent - the wife of a former US diplomat - in revenge for his claims that intelligence officials exaggerated the case for war in Iraq.
Correspondents say it is extremely rare for the Department of Justice to conduct a full investigation into the alleged leaking of classified information.
Disclosing a covert agent's name is a criminal offence in the US, punishable by up to 10 years in prison.
It'll end soon. The media wants an investigation, but not so badly that they're willing to put up with being investigated in order to find out who actually leaked the info.
(My money being on Tenet, who has means, motive, and opportunity. If only I were a Democrat, the seriousness of that charge would be enough to get wall-to-wall coverage for the next week. )
Novak himself says nobody in the Bush adminstration contacted him.
quote:"Nobody in the Bush administration called me to leak this. In July I was interviewing a senior administration official on Ambassador Wilson's report when he told me the trip was inspired by his wife, a CIA employee working on weapons of mass destruction.
"Another senior official told me the same thing. As a professional journalist with 46 years experience in Washington I do not reveal confidential sources. When I called the CIA in July to confirm Mrs. Wilson's involvement in the mission for her husband -- he is a former Clinton administration official -- they asked me not to use her name, but never indicated it would endanger her or anybody else.
quote:"According to a confidential source at the CIA, Mrs. Wilson was an analyst, not a spy, not a covert operator, and not in charge of undercover operatives."
Note that last bit. Somebody at the CIA confirmed that she worked for them.
Today's Flip-flop:
""This is one of the most reckless and nasty things I�ve seen in all my years of government," Schumer said. "Leaking the name of a CIA agent is tantamount to putting a gun to that agent�s head. It compromises her safety and the safety of her loved ones, not to mention those in her network and other operatives she may have dealt with. On top of that, the officials who have done it may have also seriously jeopardized the national security of this nation." - Charles Schumer, 7/24/03
"This bill would have violated the core purpose of the First Amendment. Although the bill seemed well intentioned in its attempt to deter leaks of classified information that could affect our national security, it did so without regard for the potential of rampant over-classification of government information and would have had a profound effect on the ability of an informed citizenry to keep our government honest," Charles Schumer, in his statement about Clinton's veto of a bill containing higher penalties for "leakers." 11/4/2000. Congressional Quarterly.
Posted by Veers (Member # 661) on :
Your guess, Fo2, is Tenet. A Clinton appointee. You are blaming Clinton again, this time indirectly.
Posted by Veers (Member # 661) on :
Oh, and contrary to some reports, Wilson's wife IS in fact an undercover operative. That is no longer an issue.
Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :
quote:Originally posted by Veers: Oh, and contrary to some reports, Wilson's wife IS in fact an undercover operative.
quote: Sources told CNN said Plame is not an analyst, but a CIA operations officer. She was an active overseas undercover officer for many years and more recently has been working at a management level within the operations section of the CIA, the sources said.
This was also on NBC News today. Said Andrea Mitchell (as best I can remember): "Contrary to some reports, Wilson's wife is in fact an undrecover operative, working for the CIA's Directorate of Operations."
I suppose CNN and NBC could be part of some liberal conspiracy to discredit the president, though.
Posted by Jay the Obscure (Member # 19) on :
quote:Novak himself says nobody in the Bush adminstration contacted him.
To borrow from Jon Stewart, whaaaaa?
The White House went trolling for someone to leak this information too.
quote:Yesterday, a senior administration official said that before Novak's column ran, two top White House officials called at least six Washington journalists and disclosed the identity and occupation of Wilson's wife.
Novak took the bait. And he even said he took the information from them.
quote:"I didn't dig it out, it was given to me," he said. "They thought it was significant, they gave me the name and I used it."
Now, as the old saying goes, he's trying to crawfish.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jay the Obscure: [QB]
quote:Yesterday, a senior administration official said that before Novak's column ran, two top White House officials called at least six Washington journalists and disclosed the identity and occupation of Wilson's wife.
Novak took the bait. And he even said he took the information from them.
Well, there should be six counts on their inditments then, should'nt there? Unless, of course, this is al part of the "Left Wing ConsparicyTM" to undo this noble administration....
Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :
quote: Sources told CNN said Plame is not an analyst, but a CIA operations officer. She was an active overseas undercover officer for many years and more recently has been working at a management level within the operations section of the CIA, the sources said.
This was also on NBC News today. Said Andrea Mitchell (as best I can remember): "Contrary to some reports, Wilson's wife is in fact an undrecover operative, working for the CIA's Directorate of Operations."
I suppose CNN and NBC could be part of some liberal conspiracy to discredit the president, though.
"Operations officer" does not equal "undercover operative."
Note the significant "was" and "more recently"
As for NBC's comments: did Ms. Mitchell back that statement up with any quotes, and is your memory certain?
Listen, when Novak called the CIA to confirm his story, they could have said:
1.) No comment. 2.) We don't discuss agency personel. 3.) Where did you get this priviliged info? Releasing it puts the lives of our agents at risk and violates a federal law carrying a mandatory 10 year sentence.
Instead, they said "it wouldn't be a good idea" to publish Plame's name. Not very forceful, given the choices. In doing so they basically confirmed that she was an agency operative, solidifying the leak, not acting to stop it.
In other words, someone at CIA confirmed this unsubstantiated leak.
There's your person who should be strung up.
As for those who are seeking "independent counsel"...
I nominate Ken Starr. Posted by Veers (Member # 661) on :
quote:"Operations officer" does not equal "undercover operative."
It sure as hell sounds like something that should not be revealed.
quote:As for NBC's comments: did Ms. Mitchell back that statement up with any quotes, and is your memory certain?
That is very close to what she said. There were no quotes, however. But you can't dismiss it simply because of that.
quote:Instead, they said "it wouldn't be a good idea" to publish Plame's name. Not very forceful, given the choices. In doing so they basically confirmed that she was an agency operative, solidifying the leak, not acting to stop it.
So, "That wouldn't be a good idea" in Novak's mind means "Yes, she is a CIA operative. Please print it." Do you think that if the CIA said "no comment" he wouldn't have printed the article.
quote: In other words, someone at CIA confirmed this unsubstantiated leak.
There's your person who should be strung up.
No. Whoever confirmed it came from the Bush White House, not the CIA. Novak said "senior Bush administration officials" right there in his own article, but if he says that is not true, then what else he says can we believe?
Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :
I'd just like to point out that Tenet is a senior Bush adminstration official, and that he also works in the CIA.
Ergo, "senior Bush administration officials" and "CIA sources" do not have to be separate things.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
A river in Egypt, anyone?
Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :
Well, if you wanted me to admit something I believe the Bush Administration did WRONG, then breaking with tradition and leaving Clinton Administration officials in ANY top position, free to continue doing their damage, and actually trusting them to do what's right for their former enemy would HAVE to top the list.
Second would be letting Ted "blub" Kennedy write the Education Bill.
Posted by Veers (Member # 661) on :
A river in Egypt, anyone?
Posted by Jay the Obscure (Member # 19) on :
Stange length of time between dyspeptic posts.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Word-of-the-day toliet paper, anyone?
Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jay the Obscure: Stange length of time between dyspeptic posts.
Not at all. In another Thread, Lee was asking if I couldn't just admit that there were some things that the Bush administration did that I couldn't bring myself to agree with, that I believed were flat-out WRONG.
That reminded me of this thread, and I felt that replying to it would be the best way of proving that I DID have some disagreements with some Bush policies.
Just not the ones he wants me to.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 24) on :
Funky, its like a shootdodge in real life. Except you know, without the shooting or the coolness. I should stop playing Max Payne 2.
Posted by ZARDOZ (Member # 1064) on :
Maybe Bush did'nt leave enough Clintonistas' in there! Bubba's folks were masters of the leak and cover-up.
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
18 days isn't bad.... I guess. He could have bumped one from this date last year....
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
When did Max Payne 2 come out?
Posted by Mucus (Member # 24) on :
It came out right before my Biol 330 midterm, so that would be around the ninth. This is in Canada though, I have no idea if release dates are the same everywhere.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
For console releases, no, but PC releases are usually pretty much the same everywhere, I thought.
Strange.
Not that I played the first one. But I could have. And isn't that the most important thing?
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
I got fed up with "Max Payne" after I couldn't beat the level where you run through the burning building. Though I wouldn't mind trying out MP2 just to see the Asshole Physics.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
And I always thought the "Americans are rubbish at video games and always want things to be really easy" thing was urban myth. You got fed up? With a game that can be beaten during the boring bits of 2001?
You, dear Tim, suck.
Posted by Ultra Magnus (Member # 239) on :
I appreciate the meta-examination of the noir and video game genres in Max Payne 2. It is brilliant, in it's way.
Posted by WizArtist (Member # 1095) on :
But isn't it just way more cool for a spook to go "The names Blonde, Dumb Blonde"? And then for the Evil Genius to then tell them all their plans?
Does anyone really think that the U.S. media would EVER really kill a story in the interest of national security when it can either sell more papers/magazines or garner higher ratings? And we wonder WHY we don't get more information from the government!
If Carter hadn't released a photo of the F-117 to "PROVE" he was a defense minded president, NOBODY in Iraq would have had a clue where those bombs were coming from in the gulf war. How much more terrifying a weapon would it have been? There's a reason the Pentagon pays $240 dollars for a hammer.
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