This is topic PRESIDENTIAL RACE? in forum The Flameboard at Flare Sci-Fi Forums.

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Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
OKay, it's dead as irradiated dirt around here lately but I know all loyal Flarites follow the circus that is election fever-
that being said, who are you voting for and why- what are your disapointments with the candidates and what issues do you think the President (whoever it is) should focus on in the new term?

Non-Americans, you're not left out- you all have a unique perspective on this process and I'd like your opinions.
How does all of this compare to your elections?

Judging from the Political Compass, you'd think we were (mostly) party-ticket Democrats, but I know taht's not the case.

Omega, where for art thou? your perspective is of particular interest as you have a more conservative (yet strangely still rational) point of view.
Posted by The Ginger Beacon (Member # 1585) on :
The US election has not really troubled the news in the UK since Mitt Romney ascended to the Republican throne accompanied by the Imperial March.

As far as I can see it’s going to a dull presidential election. Politically I can’t see a whole lot between them. They are both very conservative (by our standards) and both have their fans and detractors.

Obama got in, not least because he wasn’t GWB. He’s smart, he’s cool and he’s level headed. He has not been able to implement his big ticket ideas but he did get Bin Laden and he is stimulating manufacturing (if not the economy).

Romney is a member of what is seen by most to be a slightly odd religion – although he’s not a Muslim (boogy-woogy-wooooo!). Ahem. He’s got some, but not much, experience in the cut and thrust of politics. The pros are that he is not a tea-bagger, his prior support of healthcare as a senator and his business acumen.

The cons are his religion, he is a tad more authoritarian and to the right than Obama appears to be and the fact that he is also very conservative in his business dealings. And, most importantly, you can’t connect with him on a personal level because he’s obscenely rich and always has been. He’s the David Cameron of US politics at the moment, and that is no compliment.

It’s a hard one to decide though – Obama could easily be a 1 term president. He got in because he was someone different and he was offering change. Bush got out as an unpopular (although oddly not that unpopular) but lucky president – he was in during the good times, while setting up the bad times. And that is Obamas problem – he got in just as the shit hit the fan (financially speaking that it).

If I had to make a bet I’d put my money on Obama just getting it. It will probably be close, but ultimately the level of dissatisfaction with Obama will not be enough to give Mitt the victory. He’s just too rich. Not that Obama is a pauper, but Mitt is just really, really rich. I can see him in Scrooge McDuck’s money bin in a stripy swim suit – I don’t want to see this, but I can.
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Abortions for some, miniature American flags for others!
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Dont blame me, I voted for Kodos!
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Oh how Facebook has changed things... I Was looking for a way to 'like' Mars Needs Women's post. [Smile]
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
P.S. Is it time to trot out that web-page that plots what part of the political compass we are all on now!?!
Posted by Sean (Member # 2010) on :
I would love to find where on this political compass I sit. I mean...I think I know whereabouts I am, but if there's a tool that does it for me, all the better!

To the topic at hand though, I'll be voting for President Obama (I know, Sean can vote. What a scary thought.) Although I am a registered Democrat, I've voted for Republicans in the past, so my allegiance is not set one way or the other. Right now, as a college student my main interests are having some form of decent health care once I have to go out into the world and am no longer covered by my parents insurance, and being able to afford and eventually pay off my student loans. President Obama, and the Democratic viewpoint in general offer that at the moment. And then there's the whole issue of same-sex marriage, which I know for a fact would not see any support or progression under an administration led by Mitt Romney.

As far as the economy is concerned...he was handed a steaming pile of shit, and has thus far attempted to make something out of it. Probably not the best job in the world, but I have absolutely no faith that Romney could have, or would in the future.
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
As best I can tell, the Democrats have no competency to address the problems we face. Unfortunately, the Republicans have no interest in addressing those problems.

If cities would start adopting approval voting for local elections, we'd have some hope of breaking the deadlock. But not until then.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Well for Dems, the ideas are fine, its the people that are the problem.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Originally posted by Omega:
As best I can tell, the Democrats have no competency to address the problems we face. Unfortunately, the Republicans have no interest in addressing those problems.

If cities would start adopting approval voting for local elections, we'd have some hope of breaking the deadlock. But not until then.

Well, It seems the Republicans are more interested in "their team" winning than what is good for the people they supposedly represent- that equal pay bill for example that ot a single republican voted for.
Fuck, i'd guess taht most of them think it's long overde but the party is stuck marching lock-step to the right: the Chamber of Commerce or NRA or Koch Brother work Karl Rove will happily run attack ads against anyone daring to put what's best for the cuountry over the party.

And no, the disuniy of the Democratic party is not much better- no matter what the cause, a third of the party votes against it to please their state's special interests- coal, oil, whatever.

Every time the President has tried to comprimise, he's been publicly shot down my Mcconnell and his assholes- and his party wont back him up
Posted by Sean (Member # 2010) on :
It almost makes me think that we'd function better with a party system similar to parliamentary states like Canada or the're forced to vote along party lines, and the party that's in power gets to say how things go. Liberals are in power? Cool. We get liberal policies until they're voted of office. Conservatives are in power? Same deal. The fact that one or another was voted into office shows that the general public was unhappy with the previous administration, and was ready for a shift in the other direction.

Here we just can't stop bickering long enough to get anything done. The fact that a liberal administration was elected after 8 years of a conservative administration probably means that the majority of the voting populace is in the mood for more liberal policies...hence more liberal policies should be enacted, not fought for tooth and nail.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Herein the states, Gerrymandering would let any party with such absolute control stay in power forever.
Really, only the fickle nature of the US voter may balance the scales against unlimited special interest money: we already see FOXNews as such mouthpieces for the rupublicans taht they censor news that would make that party look bad- glossing over scandals and inappropriate comments from "their side" and fixating on any scandal the left stumbles into- to the point of FOX giring such slanderers as Andrew Brietbart and James O'Keefe to manufactuer heavily edited videos to keep their ratings up and to undermine any they feel their "enemy"

Roger ailes, FOX's president is unapologetic about this....while railing against the so-called "liberal media".

Political ideology aside, it's all about money and power- the real disconnect in Washington is not between the two parties but between the haves and have-nots, with the number one goal of any elected official to get re-elected, not to represent the voters of their states.
Posted by Ritten (Member # 417) on :
With Romney putting his foot in his mouth as much as he does it is an interesting thing.

FB does change a lot of things.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
What did you guys think of the debate tonight? Romney was looking pretty aggressive up there but the fact checkers are tearing into him now...
Posted by shikaru808 (Member # 2080) on :
From what I've been reading, BOTH sides are being torn into fact-wise. I'm an Obama supporter, but it really did look like Romney won this battle.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Agreed. It's odd that Obama did not go after romney for some of the bullshit he said though- stuff like the old "death panel" scare tactic or the "he took 700 billion from Medicare" line of crap also went uncontested.

Not to mention other obvious avenues of attack like the whole "47%" thing.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
I liked Stephen Colbert's comment on the debate (excerpted from

Of course the governor excelled at a debate that was squarely in his area of expertise, “soul-crushing boredom.”

“The first half hour was an orgy of tax policy minutiae, and then, just to spice things down, they move on to the intricacies of medicare solvency. It was off the hook! In that it would have been more interesting to listen to a dial tone.”

Then Colbert examined Mitt’s curious slide to the left on many of his positions.

“I will not reduce the taxes paid by high-income Americans,” Romney insisted in one clip.

“Regulation is essential. You can’t have a functioning free market without regulation,” he said in another.

“Now you know me,” said Colbert, “I’m a staunch conservative and I condemn any Republican who distances themselves from everything he has said on the campaign trail. But it worked, so fuck it.”

Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Why is it that the same Republicans that railed against Kerry as a "flip-flopper" support Mitt when, holy shit, he's changed is position on almost every issue.

My doctor and I talked about this and he said "you know, the thing is, if you look at his record, he's really a very moderate guy that works with the other side."
And he's right- looking at his record as governor, I'd have little issue with him as President...except for the fact that he's re-invented himself to be some conservative extremist- and the party, seeing the unease of their base toward Mitt's sudden change of heart, stuck Paul Ryan, an Ayn Rand idolizer, as the running mate.

Of course, Rand herself dies penniless and in a government hospital, being treated for cancer on the taxpayer teat (Medicare, Social Security, etc)...I wonder whay Rayn never brings that part up in his stump speeches?

Moreso, I wonder why no one from the democrats calls them on that shit?

In more crazy news today:
Rep. Paul Broun, R-Ga., a member, along with Todd Akin, of the very science-y House Science Committee, doesn’t have very much respect for science.

“All that stuff I was taught about evolution and embryology and the Big Bang Theory, all that is lies straight from the pit of Hell,” Broun said in a recent speech at the Liberty Baptist Church Sportsman’s Banquet. “And it’s lies to try to keep me and all the folks who were taught that from understanding that they need a savior.”

Yes, this idiot (and todd akin) is on the House Science Committee....fuck's sake.
Why not just stick a fortune teller and Ms. Cleo on there while they're at it?
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Finally, here's Romney's tax plan.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Well, between that and his binder full of qualified women-folk, I think he's got a clear plan for victory.

That and telling the same lies over and over, that is.
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
That's rather amusing [Big Grin]
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Well, congratulations all round are in order for you americans in particular, and really the rest of the world in general. Let's do a recap of the last few crazy days and all the wins that ensued:

- Obama wins another four years! And with that, a decent chance to manage all the projects and initiatives that have just barely gotten up to speed at this point, relating to the economy, the environment, LGBT rights and all that wonderful stuff.

- Elizabeth Warren, the bank-busting, regulation-reinventing marvel of a woman, won Massachusetts senatorial race, defeating Scott Brown!

- Tammy Baldwin won Wisconsin, making her the first US openly gay senator! And she'll be in a good position to handle governor Scott Walker and his ideas.

- Richard Mourdock, of "Rape pregnancy is a gift from god" fame, is out of congress, his seat filled by rep. Donnelly (D).

- Todd "Legitimate Rape" Akin is out, being replaced by Claire McCaskill (D). COMEDY CENTRAL: "Senate Rape Caucus Devastated"

- Colorado, Washington AND Massachusetts just legalized medicinal marijuana (plus WA gay marriage).

What a frigging week. I have a faint feeling that 2013 is going to be really good.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Correction: Colorado legalizes marijuana for adults PERIOD, not medicinal. I think the US might just be on the way to disenfranchise mexican/central-american pot smugglers.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
As a resident a Missouri, I'd just like to point out that Todd Akin wasn't "in" to begin with. McCaskill was already our senator and was reëlected. The good news, of course, is that, to run for the senate, he had to not rerun for the house, so he is out of the congress altogether now. His replacement* is another Republican, but is at least a woman.

*I say "replacement", but Missouri was redistricted this year, so, technically, Akin's district is spread over parts of a couple new districts. But the district he would have been running in still contains, I think, most of the population of his old district.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Ok well at least rape lingo will cease for the time being, until such a time as he gets voted back into office.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
VERY happy with the results in general- in my state. crazy teabagger Alan West got booted and soon to be incarcerated David Rivera also wont be returning to shame the state in congress.

UNfortunately, Michele Bcahman will be returning to embarass the nation and generally make a fool of herself with her rabid anti-muslim ideas.

On the way home from work last night about 12:30 am, NPR capped Ohio for President Obama and I was yelling "YEEEEAAAA!" in my car- at a stoplight in Hollywood, another car pulled up alongside and I rolled down the window and told them the good news and the guy driving joined in the yelling- when they turned I saw they ahd a "O and Joe" sticker on their car, so I felt doubly good spreading the news.

All day long I've been smiling- just so relieved that Romney did not get in!
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Romney was so confident of his victory, he spent a fortune on victory fireworks. Apparently, the sudden defeat took them completely by surprise.
I had no idea of the extent to which the Romney Campaign was unprepared for the failed turnout. They honestly believed their own propaganda and the inept, skewed Rasmussen/Rove polling estimates into the last moments.

Oh, and bonus decorum for Romney: His campaign immediately canceled all the funds and credit cards for the staffers after the defeat, while they were still on the way back to their beds, forcing them to pay for travel and hotel bills out of their own pockets.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
To be fair, spending $25 000 on fireworks might be a fortune to other people, but it's probably peanuts to Romney. The credit card thing, though... Now, that's a dick move right there.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
What I find so scary, though, is how Fox News have hit the ground running with sour grapes and insulting and demonizing the US population for its "treachery" of not electing Romney. Many people look to them for guidance, and Fox News tells them it's totally appropriate to not accept a constitutional election, it's even important to do so because the liberal moochers and leeches in the blue states are now destroying america (when in fact the majority of welfare-takers live in the South and are their main audience, but Fox can't tell them that so they have to lie every day).

The most poetic justice, though, as the voting results are analyzed, is how one of the main deciding factors in the Republican defeat was the backfire of its own blatant voter suppression efforts. The attempts to limit minority participation in early voting, especially in Ohio, made the targeted people come out in force during the main vote, and many of the people who normally would've stayed home rose to the occasion as they saw their constitutional rights being infringed upon by the GOP.

It's almost silly, it's like a Disney movie plot. All Obama and the democrats had to do was show the people he was listening and had a pulse, show he was still the right candidate with the right priorities towards national recovery, call Romney out on his flip-flopping, then just watch as the GOP pulled out more and more rope to make their own noose. Like watching a car-crash in slow motion.

And now, post-election, conservatives are RE-DOUBLING their efforts in going after single women (calling them the "slut vote") and minorities, calling for more tax cuts, further showing their party's slipping grip on reality.
I'm hoping for a 2016 Hillary Clinton/Elizabeth Warren ticket. That would just break the back of the senior male christian elite.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
The more the Republicans squeezed, the more states slipped through their fingers. [Wink]

Also, Obama won Florida, if anyone cares.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I care- it shuts up some republicans I know taht are saying "Romney won the popular vote"...aparantly that's been repeated a few times on Faux News despite it being a bald faced lie.

I mean...really. There are people out there that refuse to accept reality- instead they feed off the crap Fox feeds them, then repeat it to everyone they can and just refuse to listen to anyone pointing out the truth.

I've got an uncle that is exactly that way- and he blames Romney's loss on everything from the hurricane to voter fraud.

But then, there are people that still listen to crazy Donald Trump- Romney sure courted his endorsment...and being associated with Trump's Birther nonsense did not play well with rational people.

BTW, great Star Wars reference there.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Originally posted by Nim:
What I find so scary, though, is how Fox News have hit the ground running with sour grapes and insulting and demonizing the US population for its "treachery" of not electing Romney. Many people look to them for guidance, and Fox News tells them it's totally appropriate to not accept a constitutional election, it's even important to do so because the liberal moochers and leeches in the blue states are now destroying america (when in fact the majority of welfare-takers live in the South and are their main audience, but Fox can't tell them that so they have to lie every day).

Absolutely- they prove their poor charcater by how incredibly immature and ungracious they are in defeat- here in Florida, tea partier and communist-conspiracy nut Alan west clearly lost his re-election bid and tried to have the voting machines impounded and the whole vote recounted...yesterday he got laughed out of court on that and he's still crowing about how he'll fight on for his seat... [Roll Eyes]

And then there's our fuckwad governor, Rick Scott- the man directly responsible for the state's voter suppression efforts- he's now saying that, despite the Supreme Court's decision upholding the Affordable Healhcare Act, that he will not enact the law- which will cost the state billions in federal aid and, of course, he will be forced to enact the law anyway.

Though you can bet your ass that like Jeb Bush did with legalized gambling, he'll drag his feet for months, dong exactly the opposite of what the people of Florida voted for.

So what if it costs the citizens an absurd amount of money? Rick is covered- he made millions himself perpatrating the largest medicare fraud in US history.
Yes, Really.
the company ultimately admitted to fourteen felonies and agreed to pay the federal government over $600 million

Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
One of the other messageboards I frequent is centered around F-150 pickups; a great wealth of knowledge for fixing things when they go wrong.

You can just imagine the kind of shit that goes on in there about the election. I try to stay out of the political section but every once in a while I venture in... and get reminded why I stay out.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Reminds me of that poor, deluded "gun cabinet" guy on Flare back in 2008 who was convinced that if Obama won over McCain, hordes of black rape-gangs would eventually sweep his town and he would have to defend his family, sandbag his porch and pick off the jungle bunnies "shooting gallery"-style with his expensive, never-used, fetishized assault rifles.

It read like a wish fulfillment fantasy, in the same way a Katana-collecting "My Little Pony" fan hopes to one day get to use his arm-swords in school, defending a hot emo girl from a hostile jock.

I sure would like to read his facebook-statuses post-Nov 7th.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Nothing like a weapon you can't cut down to ensure suicide by police gunfire.

The new Republican conspiacy/manufactured Obama scandal is all about General and former CIA Director Petreaus stepping down.
I'll let the professional do his job:
More post-election stupidity.

And some hilarious new memes.

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