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Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
I already knew that Nemechek, Okuda, and many others were vocal lefties on Twitter. Frankly, it's to be expected from artistic types in Hollywood. But now Andrew Probert has come out not only as a full Trumpsucker but worse, an Alex Jones acolyte, chemtrails and all.

Trump ran as a 1930's style liberal fascist, what with his nationalism, anti-trade anti-property anti-capitalism, corporatist socialism, opposition to free speech, et cetera, and Alex Jones (who is no conservative despite media portrayals) is a total nutjob faker who falls right in line with that sort of nonsense, and adds crazy conspiracy alien buttprobe chemtrail nuttery, besides.

So, it isn't that Probert is the righty version of Okuda . . . it's that he's the nutty nationalist conspiracist version.

It made me sad to see it. Having grown up with his ships, proportions, et cetera as the right way to do things, it kinda saddens me to learn he's just another crazy artist type, if even in his own unique way.

Just wanted to share the odd emotion, sorry.
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
That's something of a surprise, given his pro-science advocacy all these decades.

Dwight Schultz has been a well-known ultraconservative his whole life, a total turnaround from the characters he usually plays. Acting.

About 3 months ago, Linda Park was talking on Instagram (I believe) about the potential for harm the Trump administration could have & Manny Coto left her a comment that said, "Shut the fuck up & get back to work", which shocked & appalled her.
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
Had heard something about a Park/Coto event, but in looking it up it appears to have been a single comment probably directed at the guy who was talking California secession.

Never knew that about Schultz. Of course, these days, many "conservatives" aren't.
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
Well, I mentioned my Volumetrics stuff in passing and he digs it, so I at least have that consolation prize takeaway.
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
Your own bias is leaking through.

1) Conspiretards are nothing new, but this wonderful fact-free social-media hyper-bubble echo-chamber post-truth age we live in empowers them to reach the masses better and amplify their BS. Occasionally one of your heroes falls victim, find substitutes.

2) Somebody can be a talented $professional and a complete crackpot at the same time (cognitive dissonance being a powerful and widespread brain virus, while the capacity for critical thinking is less often selected for), it's not exactly limited to artists in Hollywood. You would have to be *completely* ignorant of human psychology to think otherwise.

3) Trump may be accused of many things, but holding a classic left-wing redistribution of wealth position is not one of them. The "own country/people first" sentiment is much more typical of xenophobic theytookourjabs!! nationalists who voted him in, and putting "liberal" and "opposition to free speech" in the same sentence (the current regressive safe-space US climate notwithstanding) amuses me. Then again there *is* a massive forgotten post-industrial rust infection in the old American heartland that neither side really paid attention to, not to mention a crumbling infrastructure problem (because fuck public spending lolamirite), so now you and all of us have to deal with the puss leak.

4) Whenever large socio-economic issues are consistently ignored, as they tend to be in any gridlocked two-party system drenched with corporate interests, populists thrive. Countries with a social-democratic tradition already learned this lesson a while back, perhaps the US will finally get with the damn program.

[ February 05, 2017, 10:55 PM: Message edited by: Cartman ]
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
Just curious, but where do you think my bias is coming from? I certainly wasn't hiding anything, I just find that few read it properly these days.

1. I learned long ago not to make heroes of Hollywood folk. He's just a person whose work I appreciate. It was only noteworthy because of how off the rails he went, and in which specific vector.

2. Probert is connected to Hollywood and is an artist so referring to the usual leftist groupthink there and in that field was contextually valid. Artists and actors are usually leftist. Emotion is their day job. I could have referred to journalism had Probert been connected to that, or NASCAR fandom for less-lefty politics if there was a Probert connection.

Cognitive dissonance, compartmentalization, "virtue signaling", groupthink . . . all are descriptors of issues with similar symptoms where any bright folk might go dim in some area. It certainly isn't limited to a geographic area or occupation and to assume I might've thought so was odd.

By the way, is a "talented $professional" more talented or professional than a mere "talented professional"?

3&4. You are correct that ignored socio-economic issues are to blame for his rise, just as was the case in Germany. I never suggested Trump ran as a redistributionist, though I suppose in retrospect his on-again/off-again support for single-payer could have been said to have qualified.

What I said was that he ran as a 1930's-style liberal fascist. That puts him in opposition to Marx in some areas and opposition to Adam Smith in others. Fascists and socialists used to fight in the streets not because they are diametrically opposed, but because they are similar. It is international socialism for the Marxist versus national socialism for the Fascist (where the "socialism" plays out as corporatism (socialism in a nicer hat) and occasional syndicalism (socialism under union bosses, same notation)).

Like American fascist radio host Sean H . . . er, I mean, Father Coughlin, fascists are opposed to both capitalism and communism (authoritarian international socialism). They are also nationalist, which is just broad populism and opposed to actual patriotism. Patriots are for the ideas that are the bedrock of their nation (in America's case, the Constitution and similar), whereas nationalists will overlook those for the people's wishes du jour.

During the Spanish Civil War the Carlists recognized the problem. Staunch anti-socialists who foolishly allied themselves with the nationalists, they were wary of Mussolini's help because they viewed his policies in Italy as socialistic. They were right. Of course, to socialists and communists, fascism looks right-wing, which from their perspective is true. But, they like to label it as an extreme form of right-wing thought. This isn't really the case, though. Fascism rests in a wicked middle . . . hence their view of themselves as a third way, back in the day.

Only with this understanding of fascism does it make sense that folks on both the left and the right could label Trump so.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Wow...sorry to hear that about Probert. If this election has done anything, it has really revealed a lot of people for who they truly are. Guardian 2000, I completely understand your feelings and share your grief. It hard not to look up to someone whose work you admire, and it hurts like hell when someone you respect turns out to be a enabler of fascism who supports a Traitor, Thief, and Sexual Predator as his leader. But in these times I've come to really appreciate science fiction in ways I never really used to. If my heroes could face down genetic supermen, cyborgs, shapeshifters with an army of supersoldiers, battle droids, and planet destroying superweapons, than I can stand up to a small-fingered vulgarian and his cabal of incompetent criminals.

On a somewhat related note, I was saddened awhile back to hear Jennifer Lien(Kes) was in serious legal trouble, and appeared to be in poor mental and physical health. Our heroes are human.
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
"Hero" again?

Apparently I really overplayed my hand vis-a-vis my appreciation of Probert's work. Sorry about that. The new revelation was just weird, not devastating, though I do see that my original message overused the term "sad" both humorously and otherwise. My fault.

He wasn't a hero to me and didn't ruin my childhood. This is on par with learning an author you like some of the books of is actually a Flat Earth adherent. Even so, the Enterprises still look right, Airwolf still looks awesome, et cetera.

In any case, kudos on the short-fingered vulgarian reference. With any luck, though, maybe the new 1930's will Make America Art Deco Again, since the Nazis almost ruined it by their use. Heck, Probert may be back on top in no time if he can get his TMP nacelle vibe going.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
He wasn't your hero, but you appreciated his work. And your use of sad was appropriate. His designs always showed a lot of foresight and thought, and its a shame to see that same level of intelligence doesn't extend to his understanding of politics. Not that I expect everyone who demonstrates talent at one thing to be a secret Renaissance Man. But you didn't expect that level of ignorance from him, because it seems beneath him. It would be like learning Patrick Stewart is afraid of photography because the camera might steal his soul. You just wouldn't expect him to be that stupid.
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
Well said!
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Originally posted by Mars Needs Women:
It would be like learning Patrick Stewart is afraid of photography because the camera might steal his soul. You just wouldn't expect him to be that stupid.

OMG that line made me literally laugh out loud.

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