This is topic PIC 1x10 "Et in Arcadia Ego, Part II" ($$$) in forum New Trek at Flare Sci-Fi Forums.


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Posted by Krenim (Member # 22) on :
 
Dear sweet merciful Jeebus, where do I even begin with this monstrosity? I mean, I've been more upbeat about new Trek than most, but this?

Narissa's still on the cube? Why? I mean, out-of-universe she's obviously there to get killed by Seven as revenge for killing Hugh, but why stay there in-universe? And while we're on the subject, Seven's avenging of Hugh just seems so hollow considering we never saw them together. Again, out-of-universe, Jeri Ryan and Jonathan del Arco seem like good friends, but there was no setup for this in-universe other than Hugh had a Fenris Ranger beacon.

"I know that sound!" How often do people throw rocks at your ship, Rios?

Whoa there, Narek. Since before your ancestors first arrived on Vulcan? I'm guessing this was supposed to be either before they left Vulcan or before they arrived on Romulus. Or are the Vulcans not native to Vulcan?

So all these androids are based on Data, yeah? Didn't Data have ethical subroutines? Seems like these androids (or at least, Sutra) don't have them if they're so willing to wipe out all organic life to save themselves. In fact, other than Sutra and Soji, these androids don't seem to have any agency at all. They just go along with Sutra's plan and then Soji's plan.

So we have a massive fleet of Romulan warbirds and a massive fleet of Starfleet ships... and each fleet consists only of one ship class. Feels very cheap. For those of you that wanted a new Starfleet ship design, enjoy your one. And the bridge for this new ship class? So obviously the Discovery bridge set. In fact, I think the only thing they changed are the screens, which are now displaying LCARS.

Why is that whenever someone opens up a portal, half the time what's on the other side are tentacles? In fact, I'll bet those are the same robot tentacles models from the Control probe in Disco Season 2.

Oh seems to give up way too easily for someone so fanatical.

Yeah, as was super-obvious last episode, Picard's consciousness is downloaded into the android body meant for Soong. He gets the no-frills version, and won't live forever.

That whole dream sequence with Picard and Data was very trippy. And Data's just been hanging out in that one little positronic neuron for decades? That's depressing.

Wait wait wait... Are Seven and Raffi an item now? Y'know, the whole plot with the Artifact cube went nowhere and it did nothing in the final battle, and we've now gotten two implications that Seven's into women. Was the whole Borg thing this season just an excuse for someone to make their Seven of Nine lesbian fanfiction canon?

And the ban on synthetic life is mentioned as being lifted, almost as an afterthought. I mean, yeah, I imagine it would be after Oh's conspiracy came to light, but it just seems like the ban being lifted would have more weight to it. In the same vein, we never got any explanation as to what Maddox's "plan" was. Why did he leave Coppelius? Why was Dahj sent to the Daystrom Institute? Why was Soji sent to the Artifact cube? None of it makes any sense.
 
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
 
Yeah, it wasn't great. But, hey! It's over now and we can all get on with our lives. Such as they are in #SelfIsolation.

But God, just to see Picard and Data chat one more time, even if to just give them both closure - if Data could be simulated, then why not revived? Would a BIT more life have hurt? The Twelfth Doctor decided to have one last crack of the whip, after all...
 
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
 
I WASN'T FINISHED WHEB IT POSTED. Hang in...
 
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
I took Picard asking Riker if he was ever going to ship out again as foreshadowing. My bet is that the show will culminate in a space battle with Riker saving the day.

Nailed it.

Unfortunately all we got was one fugly ship class, which according to Riker is the toughest, fastest, most powerful ship Starfleet has ever put into service. Well, how lucky Starfleet has hundreds of them, can spare them all for one mission, and had them all in one place so that they could arrive simultaneously. They must've been built after the attack on Utopia Planitia, otherwise Starfleet could have used them for the evacuation.

Whenever the hac...writers of this show don't know how to move the plot forward, they resort to magical technological devices. This episode gave us the "fundamental field replicator with a neurocotamic interface". Ok, whatever.

Also, I have no idea how they built the beacon? Nanites? Tetris?

So Seven and Raffi appear to be an item now. I guess all the Seven/Janeway shippers who saw subtext between them are proven correct now. Obviously a lot of time must've passed, because this came out of nowhere. I can't remember if there were even scenes where they talked with each other. Maybe we can get Elnor/Narek in Season 2? Narek's romcest plot is over and he had good chemistry with Elnor. [Wink]

I guess Jurati got a hall pass for her murder?

Poor Data. For his last appearance they stuck him into a cheap uniform. I was so distracted by that zipper. [Big Grin]

They'll probably bring back Kirk in Season 2.
 
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
 
I'm SO glad thatbthey specifically mentioned PicardBot not being immortal, because I was dead certain that they'd have him show up on DSC in the future. (Incidentally, that "Burnham holding ths tattered flag" image at the front pisses me off. It's not fucking "Andromeda", dude....except that I guess it's gonna be.)

Like everything else, PicardBot was telegraphed more than a drunken fratty's punch on a Saturday night. The way suspense is ruined with the upfront SGS credits as well; I kept watching the time waiting for the inevitable Starfleet task force with Riker at its head. Speaking of which, A+++ for Zheng He getting used as a name (mine is a Galaxy, though), but fucking F---- for another John Eaves reuse, this time his Tahoe class.

As usual, Krenim's hit all the points for me here. Some other ones, though:

• Mention of the Picard Maneuver. How cutesy. Also, only works with ships using light-speed sensors, which the Romulans are well past.

• Still no mention of Ira Graves.

• What's to prevent taking another Data neuron (the idea of "positronic neurons" is stupid af & is a rant in its own right) & making a new Data consciousness? The answer is "dick all".

• Jurati's still fucking alive, goddammit. AND Rios is still gonna bonk her? What about the murder? Or is that just absolved under "temporary insanity due to weird-ass mind meld"?

• Is Seven joining the team now? Is this gonna be my A-Team analogue now?

All in all, I'm giving this show a hard low C- so dar, maybe even a D+. Even Disco got like a B- from me. I wanna say it has to get better because it can't get worse, but I know that's not true.
 
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :
 
Personally I loved seeing Riker in uniform and finally seeing some of Starfleet. I haven't watched STD so I didn't recognize the bridge. It definitely didn't look like any Starfleet bridge design I'm use to.

I actually don't take much issue with there being fewer starship classes. I mean they were going into a combat situation. It's not like they'd send in the 2399 version of the Oberth-class. Realistically there would only be like maybe 2 or 3 different types of destroyers, cruisers, or even battleships.

Blue Skies was a nice touch for Data from Nemesis.

The whole Seven is suddenly into women feels like they're giving into woke culture by having the token homosexual character.

For Jurati, she did have her mind manipulated by a Romulan/Vulcan and might not have been in control of her actions.
 
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
 
While Eaves may have gotten inspiration from the Tahoe (which itself is obviously inspired by Voyager), I think the ships as shown in PIC look different enough from it that it doesn’t bother me.
 
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
 
Women holding hands & interlacing fingers ≠ "they gay now".
 
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
 
So what's your take on it?
 
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
 
I liked it a lot. Not perfect, but it hit all the points that mattered.

Yeah, there's a lot of stuff for us Flare veterans to complain about. (Count me among those incredibly annoyed they only bothered to show us one Starfleet ship class, but at least it wasn't a Disco design. I don't like John Eaves' work much, but his designs actually do fit in better in the post-First Contact era.)

I'm very disappointed that they never mentioned either Lore or Ira Graves, both of whom were directly relevant to the season arc.

The magic "think what you want and it replicates it" device wasn't entirely necessary, but it also isn't that outlandish for Star Trek. It looked like a handheld version of what Soji was using to build the beacon. The writers could've accomplished the same thing with more traditional time-consuming repairs if they just had the replacement part ready. Instead we got a pointless but still entertaining scene with Musiker and Rios. And besides, they've also got giant ship-eating orchids, so why not a handheld replicator?

I'd have to go back and listen to it again for the exact wording, but I did catch the "arrived on Vulcan" error. I can only interpret it as the writers and actor meant to say "left Vulcan" or "arrived on Romulus" instead. File it along with UESPA and James R. Kirk. 😉

For those Matrix-y cyber-tentacles, it looks to me like Star Trek might be trying its own Avengers-style arc, developing a new threat slowly in the background before it becomes more prevalent. Assuming that whatever was coming through the portal was the same as from the probe in Disco season 2. That bit of speculation might warrant its own thread.

From a 21st-century perspective, yes, Jurati got off the hook for killing Maddox. But there are so many extenuating circumstances, not the least of which being that she'll have to live with her actions. Incarceration doesn't have to be the only punishment for a crime. I think the 24th century Federation understands that. Should Jurati's rehabilitation have gotten more attention in the show than it did? Absolutely. But I'm not unhappy with it.

I feel funny every time they use the word "golem," because I just keep thinking of Gollum instead. And speaking of funny names, every time we saw Commodore Oh, this is what I saw in my head. [Big Grin]

But I'm still very happy with how the season arc played out. Because this is what Star Trek is all about... Living by example, aspiring to be better than you think you can be, and learning from your mistakes. Once again Jean-Luc Picard embodies the best of Humanity, without being perfect.

It's normal for us to withdraw when we're hurt, to try to stay safe, and that's where Picard started this season. It felt so unlike him, but at the same time, I think the scenes we saw on screen undersold how big a psychological blow it was between Data, Mars, Romulus, and Admiral Pottymouth. But once he got a reason to strive again, he started out very sloppily, but then got better, especially once Troi and Riker gave him that verbal dope-slap.

And we got some good development for Soji too, discovering herself and learning not to be afraid of it. She had a miniature version of Picard's arc. It helped that we saw a bit of what she was like before she was activated, so we could see her fear and denial, then trying to shut out everyone around her, then accepting Picard at his word (once he was able to put some actions behind his words, as desperate as those actions were).

And the scene with dead-Picard and dead-Data was beautifully done. Especially the part where Data asked Picard why Data should regret giving his life. *sniff*

It wasn't perfect, but the character aspects of the story were overall very well done, and it was well worth watching. Bring on season two!
 
Posted by Krenim (Member # 22) on :
 
Yeah, the whole Jurati thing is something I'm actually okay with too. We've seen enough cases of "not guilty by reason of telepathic invasion" that it has to be an actual law. I mean, if it wasn't, I'd think a good chunk of Kirk's crew would have been thrown in prison for mutiny during the whole Sybok incident.
 
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Krenim:
Whoa there, Narek. Since before your ancestors first arrived on Vulcan? I'm guessing this was supposed to be either before they left Vulcan or before they arrived on Romulus. Or are the Vulcans not native to Vulcan?

quote:
Originally posted by MinutiaeMan:
I'd have to go back and listen to it again for the exact wording, but I did catch the "arrived on Vulcan" error. I can only interpret it as the writers and actor meant to say "left Vulcan" or "arrived on Romulus" instead. File it along with UESPA and James R. Kirk. 😉

Not an error. See "Return To Tomorrow" (TOS). It was implied that the Vulcans were descendants of Arretian colonists.

-MMoM [Big Grin]
 
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
 
"I actually don't take much issue with there being fewer starship classes. I mean they were going into a combat situation. It's not like they'd send in the 2399 version of the Oberth-class."

Except, it was a fleet that was thrown together in a couple of days. It ought to have been made up of whatever ships were able to get there in time. Any other time Starfleet has put together a large fleet of ships, it's been made up of a bunch of different classes. Now, suddenly, they have so many ships of this one (biggest, fastest, most shootiest!) class, that, even on extremely short notice, they can get hundreds of them all in one place?

"Oh seems to give up way too easily for someone so fanatical."

Right? She's a member of a secret society whose members have spent millennia devoting their entire lives to nothing but the elimination of artificial life, specifically to prevent the one thing that was just seconds away from coming to fruition... and then she saw one android get convinced to stop making that thing happen, and she says "Oh. Okay. We cool."

"if Data could be simulated, then why not revived?"

Seems like they could just build another android body and download him into it, the same way they did Picard. Also, I was unclear on whether we're supposed to think Soong is going to die now. Picard told him "my gain is your loss", as if to imply that there's just the one "golem" body, and now Soong's stuck. Except, it seems like, now that the technology has been figured out, he should just be able to build a new one to put himself into. And he didn't exactly seem broken up about it.
 
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim:
quote:
Originally posted by Krenim:
Whoa there, Narek. Since before your ancestors first arrived on Vulcan? I'm guessing this was supposed to be either before they left Vulcan or before they arrived on Romulus. Or are the Vulcans not native to Vulcan?

quote:
Originally posted by MinutiaeMan:
I'd have to go back and listen to it again for the exact wording, but I did catch the "arrived on Vulcan" error. I can only interpret it as the writers and actor meant to say "left Vulcan" or "arrived on Romulus" instead. File it along with UESPA and James R. Kirk. 😉

Not an error. See "Return To Tomorrow" (TOS). It was implied that the Vulcans were descendants of Arretian colonists.

-MMoM [Big Grin]

Er, no. I’m pretty sure the script was just wrong and Narek was supposed to say “ Romulus.”
 
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
 
For allbthe negative, though, I did love Isa Briones singing "Blue Skies".
 
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :
 
 - Although seeing new Starfleet is giving me inspiration to update my old site for the 2020's.

Ok, I can't share images apparently...
 
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
 
I haven’t updated my site in a decade. Don’t think it’s even got the reboot movies in there. It just got too handraulic to update. I really need a full redesign to some PHP-based system or something that gives me an interface to compose and submit updates. If I had the technical ability, time, and - being honest - inclination or inspiration to do so.

Plus most of the image content predates DVD or Blu-Ray capping, or even HD streaming services. It’d be one hell of a task!
 
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
 
Something just occurred to me : They said they fixed Picard's brain abnormality in his robot body. But does Robo-Picard now also have a "real" heart, or did they replicate his artificial one?
 
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
 
Eother way, it's artificial, innit?
 
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Lee:
I haven’t updated my site in a decade. Don’t think it’s even got the reboot movies in there. It just got too handraulic to update. I really need a full redesign to some PHP-based system or something that gives me an interface to compose and submit updates. If I had the technical ability, time, and - being honest - inclination or inspiration to do so.

Plus most of the image content predates DVD or Blu-Ray capping, or even HD streaming services. It’d be one hell of a task!

Well right now the state of Colorado is telling everyone to stay at home giving me lots of free time...
 
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
 
I wouldn’t know where to start, and I don’t have much money to spare, but yeah, PM me if you like.
 


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