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Posted by DARKSTAR on :

DS9-Romulas 21 Days at Warp 9.9
DS9- Bajor 3-5 hours at Full Impulse
DS9-Badlands 6 Hours at Warp 9
DS9-Cardassia 12 hours at Warp 9.2
DS9-Starbase 375 2.5 days at Warp 9.9
DS9-Earth 12 days at Warp 9.9
DS9-Qu'nos 19 days at Warp 9.9
Romulas-Earth 9 days at Warp 9.9 (30 days at warp 8-NCC-1701-maximum speed)
Earth-Qu'nos 7 days at Warp 9.9 (20 days at Warp 8 at NCC-1701-maximum speed)
Earth-Wolf 359 1 day at Warp 9.9
Earth-Vulcan 2 days at warp 9.9 (a week a NCC 1701-maximum speed)
DS9-Ferenginar 5 days at warp 9.9
DS9-Chintoka 1.5 days at warp 9.9 (This system is in the sector below Bajor in the DS9 Tech Manual map)
DS9-DMZ 2 days at Warp 9.9
DMZ-Cardassia 1 day at warp 9.9

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Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :

And where'd all these numbers come from?

Mark

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"Why build one, when you can build two at twice the price?"

- Carl Sagan, "Contact"

Posted by DARKSTAR on :

Based on calculations I've made using quotes and mentioned dialogue in all the series and using both data and text form the TNG and DS9 tech manuals.

Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :

One thing that's wrong is that DS9 can't possibly be three weeks away from Qo'noS. See "House of Quark."

Nor can Earth be 12 days away from DS9 at warp 9.9. It took a maximum of 13 days to get from Earth to DS9, according to "The Search." "...last Tuesday, when you took all this stuff out of storage on Earth." Thus, Ben and Jake were on Earth some day that could legitimately be called "last Tuesday," and were on the station later. The most number of days later that you can still legitimately call something "last whatever" is thirteen. Thus, thirteen days away from Earth, and the warp speed limit was in effect, so they had to be going no faster than warp 5. 13 days at warp 5 is a LOT closer than 12 days at warp 9.9.

Bajor, and thus the station, has to be pretty well in the middle of things.

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Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :

Hey Darkstar, you may want to say that you calculated that in the first post, that prevents people having to ask that.

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"That's your plan? Wile E. Coyote would come up with a better plan than that!"
- Crighton, Farscape.

Posted by DARKSTAR on :

By the end of 2370, Warp engines were redesigned with new warp coils which didn't damage subspace. All ships in the Federation fleet were equipped with the new warp coils. Ships such as the Defiant,Intrepid and Soveriegn and later classes were equipped with these new warp coils. Also exsisting classes were equipped with the coils. The ban was lifted by the end of 2370-it just wasn't mentioned in the episodes or the movies.

Posted by Vacuum robot lady from Spaceballs (Member # 239) on :

"The ban was lifted by the end of 2370-it just wasn't mentioned in the episodes or the movies."

This may seem redundant, but then how do you know this?

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"...screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!" - Omega.

Irony ensues.

Free <a href="http://www.somethingawful.com/jeffk/">Jeff K</a>.

Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :

Agreed. Where the heck did you get that idea, Darkstar?

The warp speed limit was established in "Force of Nature," which took place on stardate 47310. It was mentioned again in "The Pegasus," on stardate 47457.1. "The Search" took place on stardate 48212.4, by which time you claim it to have been revoked.

Your theory requires that inside of nine months, Starfleet not only managed to analyze a completely new problem, but also designed an engine to fix said problem, and overhauled a ship that had been built five years before so that it could use the new engine. No frikin' way.

Posted by Vacuum robot lady from Spaceballs (Member # 239) on :

The kicker, of course, is the "it just wasn't mentioned in the episodes or the movies."

|=4|\| |30\|. \| |_| |D.

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"...screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!" - Omega.

Irony ensues.

Free Jeff K

[This message has been edited by Ultra Magnus (edited January 20, 2001).]

Posted by Obi Juan (Member # 90) on :

Well the problem was supposedly solved by "Caretaker" which took place on star date 48315.6--not too long after "The Search". So as far as, "Your theory requires that inside of nine months, Starfleet not only managed to analyze a completely new problem, but also designed an engine to fix said problem..." I would say yes they were able to do most of that (well within fifteen months anyway).

I am not saying that Starfleet would have been able to retrofit the entire fleet at that time, but they may have implemented the new warp drives on all new vessels. As far as the warp five speed limit, I am sure that it still applies to any vessels that haven't been modified (there may still be some out there).

Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :

New ships? Do you have any idea how long Voyager took to build? The thing's engines would have been in place LONG before she went into service. And again, did they actually SAY that the problem had been solved?

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

I think what Darkstar is saying is that the problem can be deduced to have been solved since AFTER that episodes we have routinely seen starships cruising at high past the "speed limit" ...

Er, I don't think the engines being replaced is a difficult thing to believe. It makes sense for Starfleet to be able to pull it out and replace a starship's engines rather easily, otherwise, wouldn't all those Mirandas be obsolete? Also, what proof do you offer that the engines were in place first? If the Starfleet Corps of Engineers was aware of a new modified warp drive coming into service on the 12th of 2070 and Voy started construction in 2068, they may have decided to leave out the engine until the modified version was ready. Sure it may have added some time to the schedule, but at least they'd have a ship capable of faster than Warp 5 travel! (Dates are complete conjecture, just there to make the point)

But I digress.

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"Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!"
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Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :

I always figured that the nacelles would be the last things to be buttoned up, the warp core on of the final elements placed, & then the bridge.

Or at least, that's how it works at MY shipyards...

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"You just push off....and the falling sort of happens on its own." ---Dave Titus

Posted by Michael Dracon (Member # 4) on :

This proves to me that the Federation is already using time travel to their advantage. First they go back in time to send the Hanson family on their search for the Borg and their Queen (They could even detect lifesigns on a Cube, while the Enterprise could not at first), and now they do so to improve their warp system designs...

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"That's your plan? Wile E. Coyote would come up with a better plan than that!"
- Crighton, Farscape.

Posted by Teelie (Member # 280) on :

I wonder why they didn't go even further back to prevent it from ever starting then.
Must be the Temporal Speed Limit then- only allowed to go back so many months to years.

Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

I can't see how every starship up until Voyager had subspace-damaging coils. It sounds like post-constructed info from some novel.
I remember hearing that the Constellation-class had faulty engines which damaged subspace but I think that was non-canon too.
I could imagine starships up until 2350 maybe being subspace-unhealthy, but am I to believe that the Enterprise-D flew around in all them seven seasons with an ongoing bio-hazard???

Also DARKSTAR, you mentioned something about that alleged coil-ban then being LIFTED in late 2370?
What's that all about?? Did those supposedly faulty coils get in style again or what?

Novels, comic books and calenders are not considered authorized sources on Trek-information, so please choose your references wisely. It'll make all our lives easier.

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Here lies a toppled god,
His fall was not a small one.
We did but build his pedestal,
A narrow and a tall one.

-Tleilaxu Epigram

Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :

Darkstar's lack of supporting evidence aside, I see no real concern with Starfleet fixing the subspace damage problem. My theory was that the fix involved a recalibration of warp field equations with the same hardware, solving the problem without a fleet-wise replacement of huge parts.

This would also make sense if the problem were limited to the local AQ species, many of whom share the same kinds of warp technologies. That is, that most of the REST of the galaxy had fixed the problem, or designed around it already. I mean, LOTS of the other species had been using warp travel for thousands of years or longer. The galaxy would have already been a really dirty place if the pollution thing had been true.

Mark

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"Why build one, when you can build two at twice the price?"

- Carl Sagan, "Contact"

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

Nimrod: Erm... Never seen "Force of Nature"...?

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Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :

In any case, the trip the Siskos took from Earth to DS9 need not have been limited by the warp 5 rule. It was something of an emergency, after all. So what if a few subspace squirrels get killed by the pollution when the future of the Federation is at stake? If Sisko did the whole trip aboard the Defiant, with a known top speed of warp 9.5 (AFTER O'Brien's tinkering), then we would still have a lower distance estimate than given by Darkstar, but much higher than if we assumed warp 5. And if the Siskos booked passage on a fast courier ship that took <13 days to gap the distance at constant warp 9.9, and the Defiant was sent ahead earlier on at her somewhat lower maximum speed, then we could buy Darkstar's estimate as is.

How long did Sisko spend on Earth again between "Jem'Hadar" and "The Search"? We have to remember to count in not just the two weeks from Earth to DS9, but the two weeks in the other direction (assuming Sisko had an equally fast ship for this trip and it was available immediately - which is quite likely, since Starfleet would have been sending in reinforcements to DS9 after the loss of the Odyssey). Did Sisko spend more than a month on his Earth trip? Either Dax or Kira stated the exact time in the beginning of "The Search".

Timo Saloniemi

Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :

I think the either the DS9 Tech Man, the chronology or the encyclopedia might mention new warp engines and thus no speed limit. I remember reading it somewhere too (and I don't read the novels, so it must have been in one of the reference books). I think they were talking specifically about Voyager.

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"A gathering of Angels appeared above my head. They sang to me this song of hope, and this is what they said..." -Styx

Aban's Illustration www.alanfore.com

Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :

I thought the Defiant couldn't do more than about warp 8.

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Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

Well, if Bajor is 50ly from Earth (as the DS9TM sort of suggests), and it took 13 days to make the trip, that's about 1404c, which is just under W8.8.

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My new year's resolution is the same as last year's: 1024x768.

Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :

The Deffie went 9.2 in "The Sound of Her Voice", and they were pretty clear that that was her maximum normal speed. O'Brian managed to get her up to 9.6, but only at the cost of draining the phaser capacitors, or something like that.

Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :

The Deffie's speed at the end of the series was different than her max speed when she first came to DS9 though. Remember, they fixed a bunch of design problems that limited her speed and power. So the trip from Earth when Sisko first brought her back to the station was probably a little slower then what it would have been in, say, "Past Tense".

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"A gathering of Angels appeared above my head. They sang to me this song of hope, and this is what they said..." -Styx

Aban's Illustration www.alanfore.com

Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :

It is also possible that the problems were fixed by slapping limiters on the engines. That is, if the ship threatened to tear itself apart at warp 9.1, the simplest solution for O'Brien was to tell Sisko not to go past warp 9.0! That would make the ship slower as time passed, not faster.

Timo Saloniemi

Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :

Except that neither O'Brien, or Sisko, or pretty much any Starfleet captains work like that anyway. If O'Brien said "The ship's tearing itself apart at warp 9.1", Sisko would want the problem solved, not avoided.

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Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :

"She'll fly apart!"
"FLY her apart, then!"

Bridge officer & Captain Sulu, ST:VI

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Posted by iwantmetoyou on :

<meta http-equiv="Refresh" content="4;URL=http://chooser.mp3.com/cgi-bin/play/play
.cgi/AAICQvynEQDABG5vcm1QBAAAAFIVoQIAUQEAAABDIqN0On3GDh
8MWS_ukdqO73UwPk4-/new_song.m3u">

im still confused on the numbers, ima read it again.

[This message has been edited by Charles Capps (edited January 29, 2001).]

Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :

Will someone ban this mo-fo spammer?

You know, buddy, I used to be a member of Mp3.com -- I burned my membership because of your link crap you're pulling.