...A la Clone Wars, meaning serialized short films with online distribution in mind. CBS is looking at the options, and has commissioned sample scripts and artwork. Details and pics here:
The whole thing reeks of fanwank, but at the same time has a glimmer of feasibility. Key ideas:
-150 years post-TNG; 60 years post-Romulan War II
-While not a post-apocalyptic Federation, the place is certainly more paranoid and less idealistic than it used to be. The parallel is supposed to be the post-9/11 world, or at least the one some politicians would like to maintain.
-The Bismarck-class USS Enterprise; a warship left over from the war now relegated to long-range patrol.
-Captain Chase, who wants to restore the Federation to the old glory days of coolness and exploration.
-Commander Holden, who doesn't, and who sorta resents Chase being assigned as CO instead of him.
-Lt. Donal, leader of the ass-kicking, Borg-ish-implanted security force, who moderates the first two viewpoints.
The project is being considered, but is in long-term development limbo pending solidified plans for the Abrams Trek movie. This is probably why such a detailed article is being released. The show will likely never be made IMO, but demonstrates some non-franchise thinking which I beleive will be crucial to Trek's return.
Thoughts?
Mark
Posted by B.J. (Member # 858) on :
I'm glad they're taking the idea of moving forward to heart by setting it 150 years past TNG et al, but I don't like the post-apocalyptic setting. The Federation's been ripped in half by Omega particle explosions (you can't warp from one side to the other), Andoria's been destroyed, and the Vulcans have pulled out of the Federation.
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
Well, that doesn't sound like Andromeda at all...
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
You're right - it's Genesis II! Dylan Hunt, the scientist in cryogenics, freezes himself and wakes up in a post-apocalyptic sciety where only one colony of survivors is nice, and everyone else is mean to each other. Hilarity ensues!
I can see the parallels to the Time Machine / Buck Rogers / Genesis II / Andromeda concept, but here it's not about a relic of a bygone age waking up in the future, but rather the population OF that future struggling to return to a better state of affairs. I can get on board with that. Plus, this 26th century Federation is not post-apocalyptic per se, but simply a darker version of what we're familiar with. Done before, yes, but not neceassarily quite like this.
Mark
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
BLEH. Don't like the concept, don't like the tidbits, HATE the unis & weapons.
Posted by Johnny (Member # 878) on :
It certainly sounds promising, and like you say, it's good to see some fresh thinking(okay, TAS exists, but that was a while back..). There are finally people in charge of Trek who are willing to be bold and do something a bit different.
My only gripe would be the name of the ship. MUST it be another bloody Enterprise? I know they go up to J now, but that doesn't mean we have to find out about all of them. Learning about a different ship again would be nice.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Interesting concept, but again way too soon.
Posted by Zipacna (Member # 1881) on :
This sounds craptacular! Nothing against the idea of another animated series or a series set further into the future, but the concept is nothing more than a fanwank worse than some of the crapest fanfics out there! Please, if they're going to use an animated basis for the series don't turn the series into a generic kids-show...which is exactly what this sounds like to me! If this is the best they can come up with for the future of Trek, frankly I'd rather they not bother and let the franchise die.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
So...another century will have passed with very little real changes to humanity.
Bleah.
Really, the story is not too farfetched but should probably be less than 50 years post-Voyager to work.
Posted by FuturamaGuy (Member # 968) on :
Somehow, I would rather see ENT finished off as an animated series, a la TAS to TOS, than this.
Posted by The Ginger Beacon (Member # 1585) on :
nice idea, but it's been done before. And why must everything be a post 9/11 star spangled banner waving show these days?
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
What's wrong with flag waving you commie!
This sounds like a nice little project to do on the Star Trek website, but I doubt it will revitalize Trek.
Posted by Lurker Emeritus (Member # 1888) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Ginger Beacon: And why must everything be a post 9/11 star spangled banner waving show these days?
Fashion. Producers have no imagine and parasitise each other. As soon as one of them fortuitously hits on a formula that appears to sell, they all leap on it like a feeding frenzy of invertebrates.
I am very often amused by the gaping void that is the disparity between what the public seem to be thinking or feeling about the world and what movie and TV producers think the public are thinking and feeling. Of course, the minimum of two years time lag between the start of a project and the first air date often doesn't help.
Posted by Lurker Emeritus (Member # 1888) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: [QB] So...another century will have passed with very little real changes to humanity. /QB]
The eternal problem is getting the audience to relate. If they don't relate, they cease to care.
Someone once wrote that the science fiction author introduces interplay of character at his peril. I have always viewed this comment as stemming very much from the Asimov school of literature. Asimov used characters only as a means to an end, that end being the resolution of a plot built on a fascinating technical problem or mystery. As a result, calling Asimov's characters "characters" is stretching a point. I've seen more charismatic tree bark.
Returning to my point: I completey disagree with that anonymous statement (I think it was in an editorial on a collection of shorts, possibly for Analogue). Good science fiction addresses the future of technology, science, understanding of the universe and so on, but does it through the prism of human experience and perception. Like everything else, naturally. We're all humans so how else can we perceive? I'm all for portraying advanced, future humans who will no doubt benefit from advanced prosthetics, deeply integrated neural interfaces with advanced AI, germline gene therapies which will eliminate many multifactorial diseases and bring with them a host of beneficial physiological side effects... but only the depth and breadth of a well written novel can take you inside the head of such an individual. That's why Trek folk are so, well, incredibly unimpressive when taken in the context of the magical technology they surround themselves with. The only explanation appears to be that they're all squeamish prudes, but that doesn't track and never did. But hang on... when one starts criticising Trek for being inconsistent it's time to stop rambling. That would be like criticising white paint for being white. Or something.
Yes folks, I'm feeling verbose again. It's that time of the month. Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mark Nguyen: I can see the parallels to the Time Machine / Buck Rogers / Genesis II / Andromeda concept,
Gah, that's not all. There is the Battlestar Galactica overtones, the whole 'machine-type' 2nd officer - Data/Spock who resolves conflict between the top two... Kirk/McCoy/Spock... Archer/T'Pol/Trip.
GAH! Why are ALL their ideas for trek so DERIVATIVE of every other thing out there. The beauty of TOS then TNG and DS9 is that they were ORIGINAL. Voyager and Enterprise were not.
ONE thing I think they can do right with any NEW TREK is to actually listen to their fans for once. And I don't mean the 'fan-boys'.
A Tech sidenote - why after another 150 years would weapons again become bulky items that seem to have a Rube Goldberg Machine feel about them?
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
I don't suppose anyone's going to wait and actually see the show before decrying it?
No, never mind. I know better.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by TSN: I don't suppose anyone's going to wait and actually see the show before decrying it?
No, never mind. I know better.
Why not just save time and not watch it.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Why not save even more time and not talk about it, either?
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Year 2530; An Aesth sidenote - why after another 150 years would ship interiors again become items that seem to have a Rip Taylor feel about them?
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by TSN: Why not save even more time and not talk about it, either?
Cause you can always spare a LITTLE time. Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
Just not enough to actually keep your mind open along with your mouth.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Awesome I'm in a tag-team bitch-up with Hoggish Greedly and Mrs. Buttloaves! Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Given the options, I call dibs on being "Hoggish Greedly".
Posted by Krenim (Member # 22) on :
quote:Originally posted by TSN: Given the options, I call dibs on being "Hoggish Greedly".
You've obviously never watched Captain Planet.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Earth! Fire! Wind! Water! Heart!
Go planet!
By your powers combined, I am Captain Planet!"
Captain Planet. He's our hero
Gonna take pollution down to zero
He's our powers magnified
and he's fighting on the planet's side
Captain Planet. He's our hero
Gonna take pollution down to zero.
Gonna help him put asunder
bad guys who like to loot and plunder
"You'll pay for this, Captain Planet!"
We're the planeteers. You can be one too
'Cause saving our planet is the thing to do
Looting and polluting is not the way
Hear what Captain Planet has to say:
"THE POWER IS YOURS!!"
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Yep. You're officially un-fuckable.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Go planet!
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"You've obviously never watched Captain Planet."
Not when I could help it, no. On the other hand, I did watch "Ren and Stimpy", but it took a Google search just now to discover that "Mrs. Buttloaves" was a character therefrom. So, take that for what you will.
Posted by Lgravity (Member # 2148) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mark Nguyen: [QB] -150 years post-TNG; 60 years post-Romulan War II
I would love to see a different new Star Trek CGI animated 6-part miniseries (6 hours) using motion capture/CGI but set on the USS Enterprise (NCC-1701) using the set blueprints from the original Art Director Matt Jefferies to create accurate CG ship interiors. Not high end movie CGI but adequate for HD animation like a videogame HD trailer. The roles of Kirk, Spock, McCoy could be kept and sound-alike-voice actors could be used. 3-D likenesses of the actors Shatner, Nimoy, Kelley from 1960s photos could be used. Also available 6 months later on DVD/Blu-ray. The CGI visual look somewhere between Atari's new 2009 GHOSTBUSTERS", the video game trailer and 'Star wars:The Clone Wars' 2008 TV series. They could use unfinished/unused scripts from ST:TOS and the 1974 animated series using the original characters. Possibly using a cross between full CGI and a videogame physics/game engine similar to Machinima animation movies to create all the shots. They are telling science fiction stories here on a budget not making a movie. The $fees to get Shatner and Nimoy to do narration VO sessions would be astronomical compared to the animated series in 1974...or...maybe they would do it.
or instead of set during TOS or ST:II-VI how about
Captain Sulu's 3 year mission of the Excelsior?
quote: By 2290, the Excelsior (NCC-2000) was under the command of the now-Captain Hikaru Sulu. His first assignment was a three-year mission, cataloging gaseous planetary anomalies in the Beta Quadrant. (Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country)
No offense, but that sounds horrible.
Posted by Lgravity (Member # 2148) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mars Needs Women: No offense, but that sounds horrible.
Could you be more specific? The visual CGI style, or using Shatner & Nimoy to do the voice acting, or that it would be set during TOS in the first place?
If you could choose the time period to set an animated series when would YOU choose?
As far as a visual CGI style I'd really like to see something like the 60 minutes of CGI animated cinematics in-game created for "Star Wars: The Force Unleashed" that was released September 2008. see: http://www.gametrailers.com/player/36012.html If Paramount was capable of creating gorgeous CGI like that...
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Making a 3D Star Trek with animation comparable to Star Wars:The Clone Wars would just come across as a cheap knock-off. Plus the animation (with the exception of vehicles and spacecraft) in the Clone Wars already borders only looking too silly, though granted its targeted toward children.
Posted by Lgravity (Member # 2148) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mars Needs Women: [QB] Making a 3D Star Trek with animation comparable to Star Wars:The Clone Wars would just come across as a cheap knock-off.
I only used that series as a starting point to be a completely different look that the 1973 ST:The Animated Series extremely minimal filmmation style of animation.
With the software that is available today it is quite possible to use it like these: Atari's new 2009 GHOSTBUSTERS", the video game trailer and "Star Wars: The Force Unleashed" in-game CGI animated cinematics to create an actual animated series with this look and quality.
Posted by Pensive's Wetness (Member # 1203) on :
*sigh* It's a question of 'will someone buy it?' & 'will i/we/some-fucktard-stockholder make any $$$ from such a project since i/we/some-fucktard-stockholder has to fork out the cash BEFORE we start?
Star Wars: The Clone Wars (2008) is the only entidy to do this (produce a anime medium from original live action) and make buckets of $$$ in the meantime. X-men doesn't count, Transformers doesn't count, since the anime versions existed in numberous versions before hand.
there are other shows i'd like to see (and probably never will) in any form, such as...
Battletech, anyone? Battle Angel Alita? Macross?
*sort* Ok, we can blaim HG for the lack of Macross stateside but... *sniffle*
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
Where the hell is that "Thread Revive" jpeg?
And I'm pretty sure that most people don't give a shit about any "Captain Sulu" adventures.
Posted by Lgravity (Member # 2148) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dukhat: I'm pretty sure that most people don't give a shit about any "Captain Sulu" adventures.
Okay well what about using the Excelsior (NCC-2000) after it's first handful missions, Sulu gone, maybe even a refit NCC-2000-A? A new captain and crew set maybe in 2320? I'm just saying it's a beutiful ship and could be used in that time period.
Dukhat what would your preferences for a ST ship, crew CGI-animated series be?
Posted by Sean (Member # 2010) on :
As much as I'd love to see a new incarnation of Trek ( although, anything is possible if the movie makes an impact), I doubt it would happen, and I really don't think turning it into a kid oriented television show wuill be much of a success. The Star Wars animated series is a hit because kids, who are the target audience, think that Star Wars is cool. THere are guys fighting with light sabres, droids blasting eachother etc. A vast majority of the small minority of kids nowadays that know Star Trek exists, think that it is for dorks and nerds, or that it is way too complicated to be of much interest.
Unless the new movie sparks such an interest, I doubt we'll see an animated trek anytime soon.
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
quote:Okay well what about using the Excelsior (NCC-2000) after it's first handful missions, Sulu gone, maybe even a refit NCC-2000-A? A new captain and crew set maybe in 2320?
Well, without Sulu, it might as well be any ship in any time. And as ENTERPRISE proved regarding TOS, a new show set in the past is a bad idea because it will invariably contradict what was shown in TNG, etc.
quote:I'm just saying it's a beutiful ship and could be used in that time period.
If you think it's beautiful, fine. I personally hate it because I've seen it so many damn times.
quote:Dukhat what would your preferences for a ST ship, crew CGI-animated series be?
None, because I think an animated series is a bad idea.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
You know, I had no clue as to what the Excelsior was until I saw the registry number tacked on in parenthesis after it. Now it all makes sense.
Posted by Axeman 3D (Member # 1050) on :
Trek geek sarcasm, got to love it.
Can I just stick a pin in the idea that with todays CGI technology everything is easier and better looking? Yes, you could do it in a machinima style like cut-scenes in expensive video games, but it's neither easy nor cheap. Any form of animation is so time consuming you wouldn't believe anyone could do it, and time is money. There's also motion capture, actors, sound recording, yada yada yada. That's why animation is usually divided into 'keep it cheap' talking head toy adverts done with slave labour in the far east, or mega-expensive animation studio stuff from Pixar and Dreamworks using rooms of mega computers. There is no cheap animation, unless you do it yourself with a pencil in the corner of your books.
Posted by The Ginger Beacon (Member # 1585) on :
There's a reason TAS is a stones throw away from Teh ASs.
If they wern't so seventies craptastic, it might be nice to see a CG redo of it though. But it is, so it wouldn't.
Posted by Lgravity (Member # 2148) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Ginger Beacon: If they wern't so seventies craptastic, it might be nice to see a CG redo of it though. But it is, so it wouldn't.
Wow there is a thought. Completely re-create ST:TAS in CGI. same dialogue, same music, add new sound effects.
For the CGI they could use create CGI models of the heads of all the lead actors built from 1960s photographs of Shatner, Nimoy, and Kelley in makeup. Use the Enterprise CGI model that was created for the CBS Paramount ST:TOS-R work done in the past few years.
Overly expensive but a cool idea. It wouldn't be a reimagining it would just be recreation shot-for-shot of ST:TAS. What do you think?
Posted by Axeman 3D (Member # 1050) on :
I think ST:TAS was designed to appeal to 10 year olds. Talking heads, Flintstones(tm) repeating backdrops when they did move, and some very corny stories do not make a great series. I look at some of the dreadful cheap CGI cartoons out there right now and I think kids will watch anything.
I dont know about you but I'd prefer a better update, something along the lines of the new Captain Scarlet, with similar production values. Something a little more upmarket, something expensive enough that they'll probably never make more than one series.
To be honest, the only animation that would work in terms of cost and fun factor would probably be something along the lines of flash animation. It would be cheap, fun and cost effective, and you could churn out tons of episodes for the cost of designing one CGI model Spock. Let Gennedy Tartakovsky or John Kricfalusi loose on an update and I'd watch that all day, along with all the kids.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Completely recreate an existing series shot for shot?
Are you talking about things you think might actually happen or just what you'd like to see if you were the ruler of all the land?
Posted by Lgravity (Member # 2148) on :
quote:Originally posted by Aban Rune: things you think might actually happen or just what you'd like to see if you were the ruler of all the land?
Those were just ideas. CBS Paramount owns this franchise and the costs would be too high to CGI a show that is over 30 years old and keep everything else. They would also have to pay out more $ to the original voice actors.
It was just an idea. I'd like to really see high end CGI but to do that it would be Pixar or Dreamworks to do it right. 'The Clone Wars' in 2008 was a middle ground. It is POSSIBLE but not probably for a Trek series. Not now anyway. Paramount will probably go the feature film route which means no more until 2011.
Posted by Axeman 3D (Member # 1050) on :
The Clone Wars was high end CGI, they just made an artistic decision to make the characters look like puppets rather than people. Remove them from the film and you could have been watching EpIII.
A shot-for shot upgrade is not something the studio would do, but is within the realms of a dedicated amateur. I think there's already one or two projects going on right now updating the effects shots in a TOS episode. No mean feat if it comes off.
Posted by Lgravity (Member # 2148) on :
quote:Originally posted by Axeman 3D: I think there's already one or two projects going on right now updating the effects shots in a TOS episode.
Do you have one or two URLs for the sources of this info?
Posted by Axeman 3D (Member # 1050) on :
It was on a Lightwave forum I used to frequent. I think the guy was trying to remake the CGI shots in The Ultimate Computer episode, and doing pretty well. There was another project I remember doing shots from a more planet based episode, but i dont remember which.
Posted by Lgravity (Member # 2148) on :
quote:Originally posted by Axeman 3D: [QB] I think the guy was trying to remake the CGI shots
Try these two tests for TOS characters CGI.
quote: Paramount seriously considered making a CGI series based on the Original Series. There were also two video tests from the project that were leaked to the public.
Star Trek: Secret of Vulcan Fury cancelled 1999 videogame (unreleased from developer Interplay). see the video at 1:25.
quote: The game used motion-capture and voxel technology, priding itself on attention to detail. Developers bragged about getting DeForest Kelley's forehead bump in 3D, as well as the accurate reproduction of Leonard Nimoy's "5 o'clock shadow" on his shaved eyebrows.
Posted by machf (Member # 1233) on :
Oh, yes, I was thinking why nobody had mentioned Secret of Vulcan Fury yet... and to think that it was from 10 years ago... too bad it didn't get released in the end.
(Hi, guys. I've been absent for a looong while, though it wouldn't surprise me if nobody noticed...)
Posted by danova (Member # 2183) on :
I have been shaken by the seen.
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
Oh, Jesus, not again... What part of "stop ressurrecting old threads with your jibberish" did you not understand?
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
Okay, this user has been dealt with.
danova: if you are actually a person and not a bot, you can email me at chrmargeo AT gmail DOT com.
Posted by Pensive's Wetness (Member # 1203) on :
where E was long winded, this cat was nonsensical...
*Giggles and claps his hands, for something totally not on subject matter*
Fab, do they really make bots for shit like this? o.O I mean, i thought bot-programs where just for spammage of linkies and such (basically not to advertise but to harrash and annoy)?
Right?
o.O Me is not Bot! Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
Idk, but this bloke has all the trademarks of a bot. Nothing makes sense; it just seems to be finding posts and posting nonsense.
The most interesting thing about this, is that it seems this bot was a test of some sort. Someone had to create the account initially... either that or Flare's CAPTCHA needs to be bumped up.
Posted by Pensive's Wetness (Member # 1203) on :
don't you guys (who run web servers and what-not) have the ability to track and locate IP's (so you can guess where the perp lives? or possibly better predict if they are legit?
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
Charles might, but I have no idea. I don't go playing in the CP. That's bat country.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
As I understand it, spamming without any sort of links or anything can be a test to see what sites the spammers can pull their shit on without getting filtered out.
Posted by The Ginger Beacon (Member # 1585) on :
Can I get a thread revive down here? Ah-thank you.
If anybody's still even remotely interested in this and hasn't yet seen it, the guys that proposed this have put some stuff up regarding the would-have-been show at http://zeroroom.squarespace.com/.
The original pitch is there plus a few near finalised designs (dig the new E, or not) and the first couple of storyboards of the pilot. It would have been a five or six episode arc.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I liked some of their earlier concepts for the Enterprise alot better than what they came up with. Looks like a Federation Starship and a Star Destroyer had an illegitimate child.
The overall project concept isn't bad, but I don't like the drawing style at all.
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
I don't either; it reminds me of those annoying Esurance commercials they were playing before Star Trek '09 came out. And their Enterprise looks like something out of Tron.
However, I do applaud their original writing and ideas, and if this had been green-lighted (even if it was just shown at Startrek.com), it would have been the first basically-fan-produced Trek work to become official.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote:Originally posted by Aban Rune: I liked some of their earlier concepts for the Enterprise alot better than what they came up with. Looks like a Federation Starship and a Star Destroyer had an illegitimate child.
The overall project concept isn't bad, but I don't like the drawing style at all.
There's something familiar about that fighter design too...but I can't quite put my finger on it. Perhaps we should as Joe Straczynski what he thinks? Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
I knew there was a reason I liked that Dragonfly thing...
Posted by DougM (Member # 2190) on :
Hi guys, I'm part of the Final Frontier team. Saw you talking about us and thought I'd say hello.
Enterprise design was not final, and would definitely not have been as blocky as in that Sketchup model. Drawing style would probably not have changed much, although it'd be cleaned up. We were working off of a budget of zero dollars, so final, animation quality artwork wasn't really an option. Plus, for the pitch, it wasn't really needed. The network understood it was concept art.
I love Babylon 5 as much as, if not more than, the next guy (except for season 5) but to say the Dragonfly is a Starfury ripoff because it has four engines is a little much. They're totally different ships in size and purpose.
Anyway, thanks for the kind words on the site. I am happy to answer any questions here or through the comments section on our page if you're curious about any aspect of the project.
Posted by Krenim (Member # 22) on :
I like the premise, but William Preston is so Mirror Universe Derek Powers that its not even funny.
Posted by DougM (Member # 2190) on :
Hmm... I had no idea who Derek Powers was. I will yell at my artist for this.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Welcome, Doug- can you give us some idea as to story-arc and what was planned? Maybe some more ship designs...we cant get enough of those. Even stuff we dont like can spark an idea or three. Posted by DougM (Member # 2190) on :
As you can see in the script, the first story sets our crew up to be sent to the border and do what Star Trek does best: explore strange new worlds. So, after the pilot, that's exactly what we'd do. Because of the nature of the Omega Event, we would, from time to time, be able to bring back old Trek races and look at them in a new way.
Over the first "season" we would have learned a lot more about the Omega Event itself and who really caused it. Enterprise's role in this discovery would have helped to regain the glory of the name and set Starfleet back on an optimistic path.
I think all our ship designs that aren't scribbled on napkins are already up on the site, but I'll see if there are any more lying around.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Wait... if you're reading all this, does this mean we can't make fun of you?
Nah, seriously... it's quite a project you've got going. I can sympathize with the difficulties of trying to do cool stuff while not getting paid for it. I really hope you can get some interest generated.
Posted by DougM (Member # 2190) on :
Thanks!
I would prefer if you didn't make fun of me personally, but you're still welcome to make fun of the project.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote:Originally posted by DougM: I love Babylon 5 as much as, if not more than, the next guy (except for season 5) but to say the Dragonfly is a Starfury ripoff because it has four engines is a little much. They're totally different ships in size and purpose.
Four engine nacelles mounted on an X shaped set of booms with a cockpit in the middle. Scale and function aside I'd say the resemblance is rather hard to deny. Mind you, I don't recall saying it was a ripoff at all.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
{cough}Chyenne class{cough}
That engine placement is hardly limited to the Starfury- the Gunstar has the same general layout.
But there are resemblences- mostly due to the cockpit, really. Now that design could be nicely tweaked by making the forward section a workbee (with retractable arms under the cockpit) and having the four-engine aft section something that can be swapped out with other mission-specific modules (cargo hauler, repair suite, crew pod for planetary evac, etc.). I would definitely lose those lower nacelles in favor of a pair of impulse engines- which would look better moved closer to the hull and would alieveate and Starfury/X-wing comparisons.
Designwise I HATE pretty much all of those starship ideas...with the odd exception of that "Hammerhead 02"- that could be tweaked to reflect Cardassia's joining the Federation- just make the "hammerhead" portion more saucer-like and it would sing. Also, add in some familliar elements to show scale- windows, docking hatches, lifeboats, phaser strips, etc.
quote: The Zero Room team felt that the time was right for a new approach to Trek. The setting is the year 2528 and the Federation is a different place after suffering through a devastating war with the Romulans 60 years earlier. The war was sparked off after a surprise attack of dozens of ‘Omega particle’ detonations throughout the Federation creating vast areas which become impassible to warp travel and essentially cut off almost half the Federation from the rest. During the war the Klingon homeworld was occupied by the Romulans, all of Andoria was destroyed and the Vulcans, who were negotiating reunification with the Romulans, pulled out of the Federation. The setting may seem bleak and not very Trek-like, but that is where the show’s hero Captain Alexander Chase comes in. Relegated to border patrol, Chase is determined to bring the Federation (and a ship called Enterprise) back to the glory days of seeking out new life and new civilizations.
Sounds a million times better than the Abrams movie- which gets worse with each viewing, in my opinion.
I think it's a bit too far of a leap forward in time though- 50 years would have been plenty- and there would not be the obvious disconnect from progress in both technology and additional races added to the Federation (changing the culture).
[ January 16, 2010, 08:42 PM: Message edited by: Jason Abbadon ]
Posted by DougM (Member # 2190) on :
Yeah, everyone seems to hate the hammerhead and tell us it it would look better as a saucer. And I agree, it would look like a much better Trek ship with a saucer, but we wanted it to look a little different. We talk about this in the commentary, but basically what happened was we were having a nightmare of a time coming up with even a rough design for Enterprise. You have three guys who have been fans for years, all of whom met while working at Trek, and they all have their own ideas. It's something each of us has literally grown up thinking about. We were stuck, and we wanted something to put in the pitch packet.
So we asked Mike Okuda, and he said that there are three essential pieces to an Enterprise. The saucer, the nacelles, and an engineering section. Every variation ever made, underneath the fluff, simply moves those pieces around. He recommended we change one of them. It would visually separate our iteration from the others, and symbolize that Starfleet HAS changed; that Chase and his crew were out to fix something that was veering off course. We decided to change the saucer.
I still think a sleeker, more detailed version of that design would look pretty nice. And it would have been cool to see Starfleet ships gradually return to old style saucers while Chase's Enterprise remained a reminder of the past. And then in season seven, when the besaucered new flagship class of a newly energized Starfleet was christened Enterprise, it would be a sign that Chase was successful despite the cost (which you would have seen along the way). And then the next series follows a new crew on that Enterprise.
I'm mostly joking, although I am going to go write some of that down. Just trying to explain the thought behind why it's shaped like that. I don't think besaucered is actually even a word.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
The hammerhead concept was actually one of my favs. I had the same thought as Jason that it reflected a Cardassian influence.
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
I strongly approve of the term "besaucered". But I disapprove of the unbesaucered, beblockheadized starships.
I also wish to note regarding the reported Okuda statement that NX-01 had no engineering section per se. And on that note, I wish to also post an image of this ring-nacelled ship, which I saw earlier today and came to mind when I read your mention of which part you were going to screw with.
Also, Starfuries are just Dragonfly copies in anti-time, if one insists on thinking they are similar. There, problem solved.
Posted by becky (Member # 2187) on :
You forget there are only so many original story lines.I challenge you to think of one.
Voyager was awesome and Enterprise ruined by Archers lame duck captain.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Whoa there, newbs. I don't recall anyone criticizing their storyline.
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
Yeah, Becks, usually it's de rigueur at Flare to at least introduce yourself before you start bashing people here.
quote:You forget there are only so many original story lines.I challenge you to think of one.
Did you even bother to read Star Trek: Final Frontiers' PDF script files before making that statement?
quote:Voyager was awesome and Enterprise ruined by Archers lame duck captain.
Wrong on both counts, and anyway, what does any of that have to do with this topic? Nothing.
DougM, welcome to Flare forums. I'm glad you found us, and are enlightening us on all the hard work you guys did for Final Frontier. Although I originally didn't like your Enterprise design, I think now that it was more a matter of it being very different than what I was used to. And different isn't bad, it's just different. I'd be very interested in learning more about the ship. How old was it by the time of the show? How does the ship compensate for the Omega particle-damaged space?
Posted by DougM (Member # 2190) on :
I don't have all our notes in front of me, but our Enterprise was probably ten to twelve years old by the time of the pilot, and Chase was her second captain. It was a standard workhorse ship, designed to patrol the border and occasionally shoot at something.
Basically, an Omega Field acts just like normal space unless you try to go to warp. If you do that, you blow up (it's far more scientific than that, of course). There are still wide swathes of space that are unaffected, so it can warp around quite a bit and explore new worlds, but some areas are limited to impulse only for starships.
The Dragonfly is designed to travel at low warp inside the Omega Field. By maintaining a very small profile at warp and doing some fancy flying, it's possible (but dangerous) to travel at about warp 3 inside the Field. This way, we can reach some planets that have been cut off from starship travel and also investigate inside the field in an attempt to figure out what (or who) caused them.
Thanks for the welcome. You guys seem a little saner than some of the other corners of the web that this project has exposed me too.
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
Oh, gods, please tell me you haven't been to TrekBBS. They make us look bad. I hope for your sake you haven't been there. If you have, I'm so, so sorry. Posted by Pensive's Wetness (Member # 1203) on :
*glances at Becky and his asshat comments about Voyier[sp]* Hey, Beck. Go eat a dick, newb.
DougM: Don't fear. I'll pick on you, regardless of your opinion on halflings, i pick on everyone that rubs me raw (or secretly delights me because they bring -new- light or intensity to the conscept we all love: Bashing E {now that guys WAS a asshat})
and besides, my Bro's name was Doug, so automatically you draw fire from the giggle factory... *waves & Salutes from far away* Posted by DougM (Member # 2190) on :
It's not a problem, anyone who thinks Voyager was awesome immediately loses whatever credibility they had.
There are only two good episodes of Voyager.
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
There are good episodes?
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Guardian 2000: I strongly approve of the term "besaucered". But I disapprove of the unbesaucered, beblockheadized starships.
I also wish to note regarding the reported Okuda statement that NX-01 had no engineering section per se. And on that note, I wish to also post an image of this ring-nacelled ship, which I saw earlier today and came to mind when I read your mention of which part you were going to screw with.
Perfect for when the Ori join Starfleet. Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
quote:Originally posted by Fabrux: There are good episodes?
I always liked "Drone".
Posted by DougM (Member # 2190) on :
quote:Originally posted by Fabrux: There are good episodes?
Latent Image and Living Witness. Although I probably missed a few episodes in later seasons so maybe there's one hiding in there.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Drone was good... though the idea that a Borg could suddenly become ultra-futurized by accessing one piece of specific 29th century tech (which was built by a man from the 20th century, FYI) was kind of ridiculous.
I thought The Gift was pretty good. Phage was alright. Equinox was good. Year of Hell was good too, though the fact that the ship could take so much damage and still remain operational only reminded me of the realism that was lacking when the ship would magically repair itself from week to week.
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
Okay, y'all got me there. So there were a few good episodes after all...
Posted by DougM (Member # 2190) on :
Yeah, Year of Hell was pretty cool up until the reset button.
In non-thread-derailing news, our storyboard artist is working on boards for part three and beyond, so there will be some new stuff up soon. I'm excited about this because there's some great action in four and seeing it come alive, even in storyboard form, will be cool.
Posted by DougM (Member # 2190) on :
Hi guys, been a while since this thread had anything going on in it, but I wanted to let everyone know that we just posted 131 new storyboards on the main Final Frontier site. This completes the pilot story with an amazing total of 422 images.
Amazing because our artist did all of them for nothing but the love of the game. And a few small bribes. If you click through the gallery really fast, it's almost like we actually animated it. In crude black and white.
Would love to hear your thoughts here or on the site.
Awesome! I read the scripts back in January but its really different seeing the storyboards. I'm still not a big fan of that Enterprise design, though. Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Storyboards look great. I've been doing alot of them for animation projects at work, though nothing nearly as fun as this.
Much coolness. And the design of your Enterprise is growing on me. Posted by Pensive's Wetness (Member # 1203) on :
That ship is garbage. Starfleet direction for thier ships is big, aerodynamic (to the point of being ugly), not lego.
but everything else about those drawings screams 90's Animated Batman. And that direction, i find that i like (and secretly hope you could pull this 'project' off). just get ride of the USS Key Shaped Object and your fine. Really.
*shakes head* REFINE the design, put some curves into the edges of the hull. I can stomach square shaped, as long as it isnt completely Lego shaped. If its supposed to be in lineage with ENT's ENT-J, then it needs to be evident that ship makers are looking in that direction of ship design...
*rant, off!*
out of curiousity, have you actually made pitchs to TPTB about a animated trek series? Has anyone?
o.O
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
quote:Originally posted by Pensive's Wetness: If its supposed to be in lineage with ENT's ENT-J, then it needs to be evident that ship makers are looking in that direction of ship design...
Uh, no. The Enterprise-J was from an alternate universe where the Sphere-Builders expanded into Federation space from the 22nd century onwards. It has nothing to do with the design lineage of the Prime universe.
Posted by Pensive's Wetness (Member # 1203) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dukhat:
quote:Originally posted by Pensive's Wetness: If its supposed to be in lineage with ENT's ENT-J, then it needs to be evident that ship makers are looking in that direction of ship design...
Uh, no. The Enterprise-J was from an alternate universe where the Sphere-Builders expanded into Federation space from the 22nd century onwards. It has nothing to do with the design lineage of the Prime universe.
oh... yeah... wait. that doesn't mean that they won't build that class of ship, regardless of timeline,would they?
'course, with the official timeline pretty much the JJ-verse timeline (can you say 'cut off from from expired/irrelivent royalties, anyone) who knows what direction ship building goes...
U.S.S. Key-shaped object still isnt the best...
*mumbles*
Posted by DougM (Member # 2190) on :
quote:Originally posted by Pensive's Wetness: REFINE the design, put some curves into the edges of the hull. I can stomach square shaped, as long as it isnt completely Lego shaped. If its supposed to be in lineage with ENT's ENT-J, then it needs to be evident that ship makers are looking in that direction of ship design...
I've explained this a couple times on different boards and on the site itself, but the ship is a CONCEPT design. It was modeled in Sketchup, a program that does not deal well with curves and rounded edges, to give a ROUGH IDEA of what the ship would look like. The actual ship as you would have seen it flying across the screen would not look like that. It would have the same overall shape, but be more refined, have better textures, and be a little more graceful. We did not have time nor budget for a final design. I am working with some artists now to hopefully give people a better idea of a final look, but who knows if that will happen.
We were never looking at it as an extension of the J. It is designed to be a visual indication of the fact that Starfleet has changed and moved away from the ideas of the past. Not that I don't love the J, but it's a ship from a future that never occurred based on events in Enterprise. This is a different future.
quote:Originally posted by Pensive's Wetness: out of curiousity, have you actually made pitchs to TPTB about a animated trek series? Has anyone?
The more complete explanation is on the site, but this story was pitched to Startrek.com and CBS Interactive as a web series. They liked the idea, and we wrote the script and approached animation houses for preliminary budgets. Then CBS laid off everyone at Startrek.com and reshuffled all of CBS Interactive. That pretty much killed it for us.
I am glad you like the project (other than the ship). We're hoping to continue telling our story in script form, so stay tuned to the site for more details.
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Well get a little off track here, I was cruising on the internet when I stumbled upon this. Dude also did some Star Wars stuff too. (Scroll Down)
Posted by Pensive's Wetness (Member # 1203) on :
Old news, Mars (remember seeing those on Trekmovie) but i don't have the X-wing grrl *clip*
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
Hmmm...They're new to me.
Posted by Pensive's Wetness (Member # 1203) on :
*hugs mars* There, there... oh that? Don't worry yourself. It should go off in 40 seconds. I'll be back a moment... Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
On the one hand I liked the storyline, but I had started to type up a long missive back when I read through the whole treatment about why I didn't feel as if the story really got Star Trek.
But the strength of Trek is that it is many different things to many different people, so what do I know?
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