This is topic In a conversation with my mother, in forum General Trek at Flare Sci-Fi Forums.


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Posted by targetemployee (Member # 217) on :
 
I said that Enterprise was a better show than Andromeda. Her reply,

"No. You are familiar with Star Trek far more than you are with Andromeda."

Ouch!!!
 


Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
 
Uh, right. I guess if you're more familiar with Trek than America's Funniest Home Videos it's proof that the latter's a better show, too.
 
Posted by targetemployee (Member # 217) on :
 
The-Tom,

Huh? Does the word "latter" refer to Trek or to America's Funniest Home Videos?

My mother feels that both Enterprise and Andromeda are the same in story writing. IOW, the stories are shit.
 


Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
 
You couldn't have just said that?
 
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
 
Perhaps looking up the definition of the word "latter" would answer your question.
 
Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :
 
I don't see anything that Enterprise and Andromeda would have in common, except that they are both labeled "created by Gene Roddenberry". I saw Andromeda only recently for the first time. Although I never expected much from it, but I was shocked to see how badly crafted it actually is (crazy characters with stupid names, insufficiently considered stories, almost no technical or scientific background, incredibly cheap sets and special effects). To a Trek fan, it may be mindless entertainment, just for a change. But after a few episodes, I have no intention to get more familiar with it (and I don't think it's too early to say that).

Is it simply that most outsiders think all science fiction is alike? That it's not taken seriously irrespective of its qualities?

[ November 19, 2001: Message edited by: Bernd ]


 
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
 
I'm not even going to get into how wrong a 'Created by' credit is when someone has been dead for a decade
 
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
 
crazy characters

Oh, God, they have personality. What were the writers thinking?

with stupid names

What's so stupid about Seamus Harper? Or Brother Behemial Far-Traveler?

insufficiently considered stories

Now that's just bunk. These stories are planned out seasons in advance. I mean, there are like, two moderate plot holes in the entire show so far, and they're contained within the episodes, with no arcing consequences. Heck, they once had to have a VERY pregnant woman rewrite an entire script in three days to center on an entirely different character, and it STILL worked.

almost no technical or scientific background

Read a physics book. That and a primer on slipstream is all you need to understand the physics of Andromeda, 'cause it's ALL REAL. No FTL sensors, for example. The only concession is a limited form of FTL travel.

incredibly cheap sets and special effects

Actually, the sets are quite good, and just got better when they blew up and redesigned Command. The special effects you might have had a legitimate complaint about for about six episodes last year.

Andromeda is a good show. Plot! Characters! Amazing!
 


Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :
 
quote:
crazy characters
Oh, God, they have personality. What were the writers thinking?

I wouldn't call that personality but blatant differences and conflict potential instead of fine tuning.

quote:
with stupid names
What's so stupid about Seamus Harper? Or Brother Behemial Far-Traveler?

Thanks for the examples. I'd like to add "Freya", "Guderian", "Moebius" and, of course, the "Nietzscheans". It seems while Star Trek has no German references at all, Andromenda awkwardly picks as many as possible of them from (cultural) history.

quote:
insufficiently considered stories
Now that's just bunk. These stories are planned out seasons in advance. I mean, there are like, two moderate plot holes in the entire show so far, and they're contained within the episodes, with no arcing consequences. Heck, they once had to have a VERY pregnant woman rewrite an entire script in three days to center on an entirely different character, and it STILL worked.

It may be that there is a consistency I didn't notice yet. I admit it may be the translation (I only know German episodes) but the dialogues are awkward. Plus, the single shows are just the kind of "popcorn TV" I anticipated for Enterprise and which fortunately didn't come true. Loud and colorful, shooting and running.

quote:
almost no technical or scientific background
Read a physics book. That and a primer on slipstream is all you need to understand the physics of Andromeda, 'cause it's ALL REAL. No FTL sensors, for example. The only concession is a limited form of FTL travel.

What I meant is that it's not worth caring about the fictional technology because it's only generic scifi tech. Nothing that would catch my interest.

quote:
incredibly cheap sets and special effects
Actually, the sets are quite good, and just got better when they blew up and redesigned Command. The special effects you might have had a legitimate complaint about for about six episodes last year.

I only know several episodes of the first season, and it looks like it was done by complete amateurs.
 


Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
 
The dialogue is sometimes kind of corny, but not too bad overall.

I will have to admit that the sets aren't always the greatest. I thought it was pretty funny when they seemed to be getting their background props from ThinkGeek. :-)
 


Posted by Alshrim (Member # 258) on :
 
personally, I watched two eps of Andromeda.. it was Hercules in Space. I thought it sucked... I never watched it again.

My Humble opinion.. If you liked it .. good .. but I just hated it..
 


Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
 
And Baywatch was Knight Rider but on a beach and with no car.

Although I haven't seen Andromeda, I'm wondering if anyone complaining that it has silly names, corny dialogue and/or cheap sets likes Babylon 5?
 


Posted by Mr. Christopher (Member # 71) on :
 
Actually, I think Andromeda is simliar to B5 in that the fans of Andromeda like it a lot while people who don't pick at the little things. People complain about cheesy sets and bad dialogue on B5; I personally didn't notice these things. I believe the same thing is happening with Andromeda.
 
Posted by Alshrim (Member # 258) on :
 
I didn't mind B5. I didn't watch it religiously, but it was ok.

I just can't stand Kevin Sor-what's-his-face!

it wasnt' just one thing that irritated me with Andromeda... THE WHOLE thing irritated me.. I thought it was like watching Power Rangers ...

I dunno.. Sometimes you just don't like something..
 


Posted by J (Member # 608) on :
 
Actually the credit in Andromeda is "Created by" but the credit in Enterprise is "Based upon Star Trek, Created by"

There is a difference.
 


Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
 
"I thought it was like watching Power Rangers ..."

What reasonable comparison could you possibly draw between "Andromeda" and "Mighty Morphin' Power Rangers"? One is a show about a guy trying to restore a civilization after centuries in suspended animation. The other is a really really bad live-action "Voltron" rip-off.
 


Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
 
No, Power Rangers is a cheesy moralistic kids show with lots of kicking that's basically pilaged the corpses of 10 and 20 year old Japanese TV shows that also seem to involve lots of kicking. It's WWF but without the plots (imagine that!).

I know absolutly sod-all about Voltron though. Was than Japanese?
 


Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
 
Andromeda, like Enterprise, seems to get a lot of grief from people that it doesn't truly deserve. Some have implied that Babylon 5 suffered a similar fate, but I've never watched enough of it to comment (I've only seen a half-dozen episodes scattered throughout it's run. Certainly not enough to judge the series).

Andromeda has had some bombs of episodes. Every series does. However, Andromeda has had a lot of wonderful episodes with solid acting, writing, and direction. If you want to see Andromeda at it's best, here are some episodes to watch: "Angel Dark, Demon Bright," "Banks of the Lethe," "The Mathematics of Tears," "Star-Crossed," "It's Hour Come Round At Last," "The Widening Gyre," "Pitiless as the Sun," "All Too Human," and "Una Salus Victus."
 


Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
 
In my eyes:

I hear about Andromeda.. i hear the credit 'created by Gene Roddenberry' Roddenberry died in 91, and really hadnt done much writing since the mid 80s since he couldnt even maintain the vitality to actively participate in TNG in his final 2 years. This is blatant cashing in, even if it does turn out to be an allright show.

Strike One.

The first piece of dialogue i remember seeing was somebody making a crack about Sorbo being liek a Greek god. If they wanted this to be a good show, they would forget about Hercules.. it just tarnishes the reputation of television as a whole. Lame joke.

Strike Two.

Now i could say that i saw a couple of episodes with characters that really didnt move me and plots the were recycled and boring anyway, and didnt enjoy them. But i wont make that Strike Three. Strike Three for Andromeda for me will be fans of the show that vilify me for not liking it, even though i have watched it and not liked it, and wish to continue liking Star Trek but not Andromeda.
 


Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
 
Voltron was Anime, and, since it was back in the '80s, I'm guessing it was actually Japanese. But I'm not sure of that. It was about these five people who wore helmeted suits and fought either hand-to-hand or in five large robotic lions which could combine into a humanoid robot w/ a giant sword.

As for the "Greek god" joke in "Andromeda"... They only did that once. Personally, I saw it as one of those things that's so intentionally dumb, you just give it a short "heh" and ignore it.
 


Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
 
I viewed the "Greek God" gag as being on a par with the MacGyver gag in the first episode of Stargate SG-1: something to get out of the way at the start. Only, the latter show's effort was a lot funnier.
 
Posted by Alshrim (Member # 258) on :
 
Why do I think Andromeda is like Power Rangers?

You have heroes that are cocky and afraid of nothing - cuz they always knew they'd win.

Andromeda, you have a cocky, brash captain that is unafraid of anything cuz he knows he's always gonna win. There is little fear that at the end of the episode he would win the day ...

The acting is the same! At least what I saw of it....

I'm not comparing the two, really - in quality of show, I lump them in the same pile.

But again - I'm saying that it's my opinion, right ... If you love the show... Well.. you're seeing something appealing where I would not.. that's fine... I'm not going to force my opinion on ya... just sayin' .. I found the show cheap..
 


Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
 
The acting is the same? You must have seen either a different "Andromeda" than I did, or a different "Power Rangers"...
 
Posted by J (Member # 608) on :
 
Wow I'm among friends... ST, Andromeda, Star Gate, B5.... Even Voltron! This is quite impressive.

I'd prefer they stay way from Andromeda and Herc crossovers. But it would be nice to see a Swiss Army on SG save the day a little more often.
 


Posted by Alshrim (Member # 258) on :
 
Look .. I didn't say they were identical... I wanted to point out that the POWER RANGERS are cheesy!!!

So is Andromeda!!! FROMAGE!!

Power Ranger + Acting = Bad fromage
Andromeda + Acting = Bad Fromage

When I even watched 2 seconds of Power Rangers .. I was immediately irritated..

I watched 2 episodes of Andromeda .. I was equally irritated... So.. i guess... My reaction to the one show .. reminded me of my reaction to the other!

There! I hope that cleared things up.
 


Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
 
Which two episodes?

Andromeda, you have a cocky, brash captain that is unafraid of anything cuz he knows he's always gonna win.

Hardly. He's very nearly gotten himself killed several times, and knew the odds when he did it. Further, it's not just about whether he wins or not, it's more about HOW he wins. "Well, yes, we know we can't alter history, 'cause that's not how time works, but is it really justifiable to kill 100,000 people when they don't have a chance in hell?" "Yes, we succeeded in our mission, but the only reason we had to risk our lives at all was because you stole X. Now X is under my control. Deal with it."

Things CHANGE in this show, unlike many others. How can you possibly compair that to Power Rangers, which had (Has? Is the abysmal show still around?) all of one, count them, one plot?
 


Posted by Siegfried (Member # 29) on :
 
quote:
Why do I think Andromeda is like Power Rangers?

That comes pretty close to your saying that the two are similar. I hate to break this to you, but there is nothing similar at all between the acting on Andromeda and the acting on Power Rangers. Let's see, one is adult science-fiction and the other is a kid's show. Other than the presence of technological elements, the show share nothing at all in common. And, I gladly defend the acting on Andromeda. Watch the episodes I mentioned earlier. The cast brings out some really solid and enjoyable action, especially in those episodes.

quote:
Strike One.

Do you have the same objection to Earth: Final Conflict or any celebrity-sponsored commercials? It's a marketing ploy to be simple, but there are some elements of truth here. Some of the ideas behind Andromeda's premise were taken from the notes of Gene Roddenberry. If these notes were from before the mid-1980s, why is that a problem? Let me also say that Majel Barret Roddenberry has been an executive producer on both Andromeda and Final Conflict. Adding her late husband's name to the official title was probably her idea. Plus, it's not that this sort of thing is uncommon. Anyone here watch James Cameron's Dark Angel? Did anyone here everwatch Steven Speilberg's Animaniacs or Tiny Toon Adventures as a child?

quote:
Strike Two.

You're leveling a strike at the entire series because of joke that was fitting for the scene in the pilot episode? Okay...

quote:
...Strike Three...

If those "couple of episodes" didn't strike your fancy, that's your perogative. However, how about watching more than a "couple of episodes" before trashing the near thirty episodes that exist so far? Why don't you wait it out or watch some more before passing judgement? There's not a whole lot of credibility to trashing the series when you admit to only watching a "couple of episodes" from a series that has been on the air for well over a year now.

In addition, no one is saying that if you like Star Trek then you have to like Andromeda. That makes about as much sense as telling someone that he or she should like The Mary Tyler Moore Show if you like The Dick Van Dyke Show.
 


Posted by Alshrim (Member # 258) on :
 
OK .. I'm going to say this ONE ... MORE... TIME...

There's nothing the same between the shows... Ok???? Only my dislike of them...

And you know what?? I didn't really trash the show.. In my first post in this thread, I only said that I didn't like it .. and then this MASSIVE discussion picking apart my post happened..

So.. I've admitted that the shows are un-alike.. However,,, I felt that Andromeda - The eps that I saw (remember.. i did say I only watched two) were as cheesy as a Power Rangers Episode... Kids show or not .. I thought the Andromeda ep was like a kids show... it was cheesy...

Now it may not be NOW.. but the eps I saw were.. and it turned me off .. that's all I said..

And I don't know what episodes they were.. y'know why? Cuz I don't watch the show.. It's not like I took that much notice.

Holy Jumpin' - jump all over me !!!!

I'm not forcing my dislike on anyone .. Just stated an opinion.. I didn't wanna make a federal case out of it.

I accept that people like it .. I'm not saying they're idiots for liking it .. nor do I say that they don't have taste for liking it .. I'm saying .. I don't like the show .. and won't watch it... Simple as that.. No foul. *shrugs*

[ November 21, 2001: Message edited by: Alshrim ]


 
Posted by The Antagonist (Member # 484) on :
 
Going back to page one, regarding the comment about funny names...

There are many names in science fiction series that are goofy sounding. Hell, look at Quark.
*nelsonvoice*
HA HA! You're named after a sub-atomic massless buildingblock.
HA HA!
*ahem*

At any rate, I'd also like to point out that "Nietzchean" comes from the name Nietzche, the author of "Thus Spake Zarustra." The choice is hardly awkward, it is appropriate.
 


Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
 
Oh, yeah, I meant to mention that a while back. The use of "Nietzsche" can't really be construed as an especially German reference. The idea was to refer to his philosophy. He only happens to be German. If Nietzsche's ideas had instead been written by a guy named Rodriguez, the modified humans on the show would be called "Rodriguans".
 
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
 
You know what's really scary? Andromeda Action Figures. They're coming soon. I kid you not.
 
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
 
Scary?! It's brilliant! *anticipates hours of fun with Trance's bendy purple tail*
 
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
 
Andromeda #1

Dylan Hunt

Tyr

Blonde chick

Oh, sorry, this is the Blonde Chick "Bekka" ... the one above is the monster religious guy

And look at this -- OH MY GOD!

Don't tell Liam

Maybe they're going to bring back the TV show ... aaaah!

This guy spooks me. But cool!

Look at the back line of figures. REALLY SCARY!

Hey, Bin Laden ...

Ni! Ni! Do you say Ni? Ni!!!!

I can't believe they're making *PLAYBOY* Action Figures. Don't click, Omega ...

Oh, wow ...

Scoooooooooooooooooooooooooby

Shik, take a peek
 


Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
 
Motherbitch!

Look here:

http://www.geocities.com/sirworryalot/sdcc2001/toys/
 


Posted by The Antagonist (Member # 484) on :
 
Word up.
Playboy action figures, boss! (sub. "groovy," "bitchin'," "radical," etc.)


...Umm, so to speak.
 


Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
 
Muthafuckin' KEI & YURI!! Dirty Pair figs! Me WANTY!
 
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
 
I'm excited about those Fifth Element figures ...
 
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
 
Those are the "Kei" and "Yuri" in all the Trek in-jokes? Two nearly-undressed Anime girls? Oy...
 
Posted by The Antagonist (Member # 484) on :
 
That is a redundancy, TSN. All anime girls are nearly undressed.
 
Posted by Balaam Xumucane (Member # 419) on :
 
Not nearly undressed enough! Curse you, Cartoon Network and your unswerving perserverance in applying 'American' values in the form of black clothes and blurry bits...
 
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
 
[edited because this isn't the Flameboard]

And that's all I have to say about that, booyah!

[ November 24, 2001: Message edited by: Malnurtured Snay ]


 


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