Does anyone have any information on the upcoming ENT episode E2 (or E Squared)? There does not seem to be a lot of info around (obv. due to the fact that it hasn't aired yet), but I am wondering what the mysterious Starfleet ship is that Enterprise is supposed to encounter?
Someone on these forums said that it was supposed to be an Enterprise from three generations ahead. That could either be three Enterprise generations ahead (making it the Enterprise-B), or three series generations ahead (making it TNG-Era).
However, I think it is most likely that it is just three age generations ahead, making the "bizarre encounter with another Starfleet ship" just an encounter with a future NX-01. This is supported by the fact that 'Karyn Archer' is listed in the guest cast.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
How does Karyn Archer compute to a future NX-01?
If we say that a 22nd century generation is ~30 years, it might be a very early USS Enterprise NCC-1701 under the command of April (in 2244).
Three 'Enterprise' generations does make it the Enterprise-B, and three series would make it the D or E.
But I actually doubt it will be any of those. I don't know where that "three generations" number comes from, but it's more likely they'll use the Enterprise-J, since this ship has already been introduced by ENT.
And considering TPTB generally feel that viewers are quickly confused by having similar ships in one episode, I'll doubt they'll use one of the 'old' Enterprises.
Posted by Fleet-Admiral Michael T. Colorge (Member # 144) on :
Enterprise-J sets are built and it was shown already in Azati Prime, yet it would be nice to see the Enterprise-E sets and CGI ship model say hi on the small screen.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Check out the spoilers at Trektoday.com. It's not, though I'd wished it were.
Mark
Posted by mada101 (Member # 1285) on :
"While on the way to speak before the Xindi Council, Archer and the crew encounter a future Enterprise ship piloted by their direct descendants who warn them that the wormhole shortcut they intend to take to the planned meeting will throw them 100 years into the past"
'direct decendents' suggests that Karyn Archer is in fact Archer's daughter, hence the Starfleet vessel unfortunatly being the future NX-01.
Personally, I would have liked to have seen more of the Enterprise-B...
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
It's a "Children of Time" DS9 Plot. Ent gets thrown back in time. Their descendants eventually take over for the crew. The ship finally catches up with the "present" and they have to decide whether to change history, and thereby erasing all their descendants from the timeline.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"'direct decendents' suggests that Karyn Archer is in fact Archer's daughter..."
Probably not daughter, after 100 years. Great-granddaughter, maybe.
One wonders if they'll have an elderly T'Pol, à la Odo in "Children of Time".
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
Indeed. So really no future Enterprise at all then..
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Sadly, no original plot either. Not saying it won't be a good episode. But let's take odds on whether or not they'll choose to change history.
Ooh! And what about whether or not Mayweather dies in the trip through the wormhole! That's pretty much a sure thing.
Posted by mada101 (Member # 1285) on :
quote: One wonders if they'll have an elderly T'Pol, à la Odo in "Children of Time".
I did read somewhere that Blalock had to wear make-up to play a 200 year old T'Pol...
Posted by mada101 (Member # 1285) on :
My money is on it being the NX, perhaps a bit altered.
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
Maybe even refitted with a megaphase cannon and a third nacelle. B)
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Wouldn't the equivalent for ENT be to be equipped with one TOS-phaser and one TOS-phototorp launcher, ie next step in development? (OMG FAR OUT LOL!)
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
Don't forget the cloaking device....
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Um, the idea seems to be that the Pre-E was thrown into the PAST. Reed and Tucker and the rest of the gang may be incalculably bright when it comes to their ship, but without the backup of Starfleet R&D I'm not expecting a Pre-E +100 to be more advanced than it was before. Hell, after a century of wear and tear, I'd seriously doubt she'd be in good shape at all.
OTOH, at least in one timeline we now have proof that aStarfleet builds 'em to LAST, even back then.
Mark
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
All I know is that they're going to need to come up with a good twist to make this satisfyingly different from "Children of Time".
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
Not to mention a decent excuse to avoid creating a temporal paradox...
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
What's a bet that it's no different to CoT - and that they don't bother changing anything expecting no one to have watched CoT or DS9.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I'll just wait and see how it goes.
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
You know, CoT is one of the few DS9 episodes I've never seen. Like "The Reckoning".
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
CoT is not a great episode but I suuuure wanted to bone the actress that played Molly.
The adult version, you sick fucks. Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
It's been quite a while since I saw it, but, according to IMDb, Molly O'Brien was played in "Children of Time" by one Doren Fein. Who would have been, at the time, thirteen.
And we thought Shik was as low as we could get.
By the way, Jason, what's your opinion on the episode "Time's Orphan"?
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
WAit...wich one was the ep with the adult Molly that fell through the time portal on some Bajoran planet?
That chick was NOT thirteen.
Synopsis of "Time's Orphan" would help: I'm not too big on the ep. titles.
Ah. That's the episode I had in mind! No, I'm not a pedophile. This is the actress I had in mind: http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0472891/ Zow, huh? Embarassing error, that.
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
Thinking with your dick does that to you from time to time, yeah.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Hang on, she was 13 and played an 18 year old? Is this reverse-Dawson's Creek land?
And how'd you know she's 13 anyway, Tim? The IMDB seems oddly silent on that matter.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
No, she was thirteen and played, I assume, a thirteen-year-old. And I know she was thirteen (actually, probably twelve during filming) because the episode was from 1997, and the IMDb clearly states that she was born in 1984.
Do try to keep up, dear.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Sorry, I was looking at the link Jason provided, and got a bit mixed up. It won't happen again. Ever.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
See that it doesn't.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
So, I was thinking of "Time's Orphan" ...what in hell was "Children of Time" about?
Too many fucking episodes with the word "Time" involved, that's what I say!
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Children of Time was the one where the Defiant passed through this energy field while inspecting a planet and found their descendants living there. Turns out that when they tried to leave, they were thrown back in time and crashed on the planet. Their descendants grew up and were waiting there when the Defiant entered orbit. Adventure ensued.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I really like that one (even if the setup was a bit contrived for DS9)....Odo basically dooms all the descendants just to save Kira.
Talk about love! Odo killed ALL THOSE PEOPLE just to save her!
Romantic in a twisted, mass murder kinda way. Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
Well, AlternateOdo did. Who hadn't gotten any in 200 years, so can you blame him? B)
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"Odo killed ALL THOSE PEOPLE just to save her!"
Well, he didn't really kill them, did he? I mean, he just caused them not to have existed in the first place. Including himself (or, that portion of his life). So, how can you have a murder when neither the murderer nor the victims exist?
[ April 19, 2004, 01:50 AM: Message edited by: TSN ]
Posted by Captain Mike XLVII (Member # 709) on :
Tom Cruise should have stopped him BEFORE he committed the crime.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
quote:Originally posted by TSN: So, how can you have a murder when neither the murderer nor the victims exist?
So if I travel back in time 20-odd years to when you are about to be created and start playing ELO music outside your parents bedroom with the intention of putting them off sex (and, indeed, almost anything), then that won't be murder?
Cool.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by PsyLiam:
quote:Originally posted by TSN: So, how can you have a murder when neither the murderer nor the victims exist?
So if I travel back in time 20-odd years to when you are about to be created and start playing ELO music outside your parents bedroom with the intention of putting them off sex (and, indeed, almost anything), then that won't be murder?
Cool.
What makes you think it was a bedroom? Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Statistics.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 24) on :
Wait, so TSN wouldn't exist true (ie. the victim)...but what about the murderer, or are you saying in some weird way that if Tim didn't exist, you wouldn't exist either?
Posted by Ultra Magnus (Member # 239) on :
I heard a rumor once that Liam was birthed by Tim.
Right out of his uterus.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
And, I'll tell you, it was a hell of an accomplishment. What with it happening before I was born, and all.
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
"Cool."
You do realize you have just related yourself to Tim, don't you?
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ultra Magnus: I heard a rumor once that Liam was birthed by Tim.
Right out of his uterus.
Tim and Liam are actually each other's long lost fathers.
You both know your required ESB line....SAY IT!!!
Posted by Manticore (Member # 1227) on :
That sounds like a Heinlein story I read once, where a guy was his own father, mother, and kidnapper...it was most odd. To say the least.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
His own father *and* mother? Hmmm... time travel isn't his only trick then.
Hermaphroditic time travelers. It'll be all the rage in 2089.
Posted by Manticore (Member # 1227) on :
He was born a woman, but after bearing himself, it was found that he had latent guy parts (because his female parts were destroyed) and these were brought out with hormone therapy IIRC. After a few years, he met this bartender, who took him back in time. Where the guy met his younger self and sparks flew. Then it was revealed that the bartender had kidnapped the baby and taken her back in time. And that the bartender was the future version of the man, sent back in time to recruit himself.
It's a good read, though I don't remember the name of the story. Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I have a headache already without even reading the book.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
See? Sci Fi and drugs do mix!
Posted by machf (Member # 1233) on :
"By His Bootstraps", I believe...
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
Something ol' Dickie knew all too well.
Posted by Ultra Magnus (Member # 239) on :
4=D 5=E 1=A
FARENHEIT/IET/ITE DEA
!!
Posted by Krenim (Member # 22) on :
The name of the Heinlein story in question is "All You Zombies-". Good read. Freaky, but good.
Posted by TheWoozle (Member # 929) on :
The preview, at the end of DAMAGE, shows a scene of the Enterprise splitting into two ships...
Posted by Captain Mike XLVII (Member # 709) on :
y'know, i hate baseless speculation, but if i were to try and guess an angle the producers might try and go for in order to enhance ratings, it might be for them to keep that damned multi-vector-attack mode NX-01 from the future, and ditch the real one.
just saying.
Posted by machf (Member # 1233) on :
I think what it shows is two Enterprises fighting together, rather (one on top of the other). It's possibly from "E^2".
Posted by Boult (Member # 1269) on :
quote:Originally posted by machf: I think what it shows is two Enterprises fighting together, rather (one on top of the other). It's possibly from "E^2".
no, they were battling against other enemy, look at the line of fire... so obviously not at each other and no this preview is for the next episode "The Forgotten" hmm
see the preview there..
Posted by Pensive's Wetness (Member # 1203) on :
quote:Originally posted by Boult:
quote:Originally posted by machf: I think what it shows is two Enterprises fighting together, rather (one on top of the other). It's possibly from "E^2".
no, they were battling against other enemy, look at the line of fire... so obviously not at each other and no this preview is for the next episode "The Forgotten" hmm
quote:Originally posted by machf: I think what it shows is two Enterprises fighting together, rather (one on top of the other). It's possibly from "E^2".
no, they were battling against other enemy, look at the line of fire... so obviously not at each other and no this preview is for the next episode "The Forgotten" hmm
I meant "fighting together" as in "fighting side by side", not "fighting each other"... And the preview also said "5 episodes left", so they may have included footage from not just the upcoming one (the old T'Pol, for instance, may be from E^2 too). In fact, those sequences appear before the promo switches to from "5 episodes left" to "Wednesday"...
The suggestion of the ship somehow "splitting" into two separate ones reminded me of what happened to the United Galaxy Sanitation Patrol ship in an episode of "Quark"...
Posted by Bond, James Bond (Member # 1127) on :
All the stuff before they switched to the scene with Degra at the end of the promo looked to be from "E2" to me as well.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Two ships... "Deadlocked" [VOY]?
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Excuse me, I won't have ver Electric Light Orchestra dissed around here!
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
quote:Originally posted by machf: I think what it shows is two Enterprises fighting together, rather (one on top of the other). It's possibly from "E^2".
NX-02 to save the day! Posted by machf (Member # 1233) on :
Unless they took NX-02 out of spacedock before it was completely finished (remember what it looked like when we saw it?), it's apparently the same NX-01 with a quick patch job applied over the holes.
Posted by mada101 (Member # 1285) on :
Yeah, not likly to be the NX-02 saying as it hasn't been 14 months since we last saw her. I still say its gonna be just a future NX-01......
Posted by Boult (Member # 1269) on :
quote:Originally posted by machf:
quote:Originally posted by Boult:
quote:Originally posted by machf: I think what it shows is two Enterprises fighting together, rather (one on top of the other). It's possibly from "E^2".
no, they were battling against other enemy, look at the line of fire... so obviously not at each other and no this preview is for the next episode "The Forgotten" hmm
I meant "fighting together" as in "fighting side by side", not "fighting each other"... And the preview also said "5 episodes left", so they may have included footage from not just the upcoming one (the old T'Pol, for instance, may be from E^2 too). In fact, those sequences appear before the promo switches to from "5 episodes left" to "Wednesday"...
The suggestion of the ship somehow "splitting" into two separate ones reminded me of what happened to the United Galaxy Sanitation Patrol ship in an episode of "Quark"...
Ok, alright then must be E^2 and other episodes.
Posted by TheWoozle (Member # 929) on :
From Treknation: Scott Bakula: "If you think about that title, it is actually giving a lot of the episode away. But it's a great episode along the lines of 'Twilight' and 'Similitude'. It's a classic sci-fi and Star Trek episode." (February 05, 2004 - TrekToday)
It's E-squared, not E-2.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Well, I really liked it a lot.
Great acting from the actor that played Lorian. Really, very impressive. I gotta give it to Ms. Blalock: her performance as "old future T'Pol" was at least as good as Patrick Stewart's "old Picard".
Nice dramatic moment with Reed in the mess hall as well....mabte that warp plasma from last week killed off some sperm or something.
Does future Mayweather hook up with Trip's MACO love-bunny? ...I think so.
So....anyone think the other NX-01 will show up in the season finale to save the day?
Posted by Manticore (Member # 1227) on :
quote:Does future Mayweather hook up with Trip's MACO love-bunny? ...I think so.
Nah, different MACO, supper-hottie in ridiculously thin sports bra from Anomaly who hasn't shown up since.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"Nice dramatic moment with Reed in the mess hall as well....mabte that warp plasma from last week killed off some sperm or something."
I'm still downloading the episode, but I'm not sure I want to find out why Reed's sperm are an issue in the mess hall.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
The scene involves Hoshi, Mayweather, mating and food.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Okay, I've seen it now. However, I'm pretty sure that a momentary loss of sperm production could not occur for his complete failure at any sort of love life.
On the other hand, if he simply doesn't realize yet that he's actually gay...
Posted by Mucus (Member # 24) on :
Does anyone else find it amusing that Archer is so annoyed about someone stealing components from his warp drive to stop the Xindi only two weeks after he did exactly the same?
Its almost like the writers are trying to say something, although I have no idea what.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
That it is annoying... Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
That morality is a finicky thing and only upheld when it's convenient.
Nah, that's too DS9-ish.
Posted by TheWoozle (Member # 929) on :
I think, that when we can watch the whole story arc on DVD, a lot of things like that will work better. It didn't make sense today, but mit may next week (hopefully).
Posted by Captain Boh (Member # 1282) on :
I think that the Other NX-01 should have at least given up their 100 year old injectors, its not like they would have needed them.
Anyway, interesting episode.
Posted by Wes (Member # 212) on :
Another great Season 3 ep. Fuck this is good stuff.
Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :
Hey, I read at Trek BBS that this episode revealed that NX-02 is USS Columbia. Is this true? If you remember, in August we had a name prediction thread.
Posted by leuckinc (Member # 729) on :
Yep, the Columbia
Posted by Captain Boh (Member # 1282) on :
It would be interesting if the NXs were all named for Space Shuttles.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
There would'nt be very many constructed in the line then, would there?
Posted by Captain Boh (Member # 1282) on :
Well, the first ones anyway. As it is though by the time the Enterprise is finished in the Expanse they might need a new spaceframe for all the little tech bits (like the Warp 6.whatever that the hull and injectors can't handle)
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
So, I liked this episode a lot, but it hinged on a revelation that really deserved a little seeding in previous episodes. I didn't think much of Archer's "aha" moment, connecting the Xindi's curiosity about the number of human ships in the Expanse to there being another Enterprise flying around. I mean, it's such an obvious, relevant question for someone to ask, no time-travel hijinx necessary. They already know Enterprise has at least one other ally in the area, in the Andorians.
Moreover, it seems to me that, with this ship roaming around the Expanse for a hundred years, the Xindi have good reason to think humans are out to get them.
Having said that, I agree with most everybody else's praise of this episode. I especially liked the rushed and ambiguous nature of the ending.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: There would'nt be very many constructed in the line then, would there?
Not sure of the order for 4-6. And there was another Russian Shuttle partly built wasn't there?
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
Ptichka. Possible NX-08?
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
The order in which the shuttles were built is Enterprise (OV-101), Columbia (OV-102), Challenger (OV-099, technically a converted test vehicle), Discovery (OV-103), Atlantis (OV-104), and Endeavour (OV-105).
And NX-03 should be christened Buran, just because it's Russian. B)
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
Buh?
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
Cartman:
Challenger, as you said, was originally a test article (STA-099) and thus was technically the first built. Columbia was the third built (after fully-fledged prototype Enterprise OV-101) but the first to fly in space.
Posted by B.J. (Member # 858) on :
MIM: Challenger was NOT the first built, regardless of its number. See here. Click on some of the links for more.
Enterprise rollout, Sept. 17, 1976 (STA-099 rollout, Feb. 14, 1978) Columbia rollout, March 8, 1979 Challenger rollout, June 30, 1982 Discovery rollout, Oct. 16, 1983 Atlantis rollout, April 6, 1985 Endeavour rollout, April 25, 1991
B.J.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
I stand corrected.
Posted by David Templar (Member # 580) on :
Well, I guess I'd be one of those few who utterly despised the premise of this episode (the acting was fine, tech was as lame as usual). Maybe I'm too used to how quickly people become aware of the potential for temporal paradoxes in TOS through VOY, but that doesn't excuse this episode for the way it justifies itself.
You got everyone's running around making decisions that they would find utterly stupid had they the least bit of inkling of what a paradox could do. How could anyone open fire on their ancestors and not expect any consequences? Doesn't preventing yourself from being born ever occur to you when you're stopping your parents from getting together?
I mean, it's the writers' job to tell us a story that would suspend our disbelief. Simply telling us that we shouldn't bother thinking about the paradox doesn't do that. The old "the anomoly shielded us from the change in the timeline" excuse would have worked just fine here, even if it's very banal. The NX-present is full of the "brightest" of Earth, the NX-past had 150 years to think about this, you'd think someone, somewhere on screen, would have said SOMETHING about the two NXs applying kinetic energy to the rear access manifold of the timeline in a manner that is beyond the timeline's design specifications and safety limits.
Finally, coupled with a convinent temporal-copying machine plot device, this episode seem like something VOY would do. The progression of the episode is predictable, relies completely on unfathomable ignorance to produce one poor decision after another, blah blah blah, blah blah blah, blah, etc etc. *realizes what he's complaining about, suddenly very very tired*
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
Did you even like it for just the entertainment value?
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
That's just stupid. If people watched Enterprise for the entertainment value, then they'd be talking about how good "Damage" was, instead of saying that it's the worst episode since "Threshold" because they got a piece of tech wrong.
Stupid Dat.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
Wishful thinking, I know, but maybe the writers are finally grasping and buying into the Many Worlds concept in which paradoxes a la Back To The Futuredo not occur.
-MMoM Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Er, that'd hardly be a new thing for Star Trek to tackle. "Parallels" was based around the Many Worlds concept.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
As is the entire "Mirror Universe" thing.
Trek seems to have both causality andalternate realities. Both versions of time-travel ae well setablished in Trek so there should be no bitching about Enterprise's use of time-hopping, causality or the lack thereof or any other time-related technobabble.
Something I enjoy about Enterprise is that Archer and crew are just as bewildered about who these things could work as we are. I think Archer is pretty fed up with the whole notion of temporal, third-party manipulation of both alien species and his crew. (insert deragatory "so are we" line from whoever wants to bash the show today)
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
quote:Originally posted by PsyLiam: Er, that'd hardly be a new thing for Star Trek to tackle. "Parallels" was based around the Many Worlds concept.
Yes, but then why all the fuss about paradoxes? They can't seem to decide which model to use. They're sort of mutually exclusive. Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
They pick whichever one is best, dramatically. Crazy idea, I know, but there you go.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"As is the entire 'Mirror Universe' thing."
Well, not really. The Mirror Universe kind of suggests that there's one alternate timeline. In the world we see in "Parallels", there's a near-infinite number of "Mirror Universes".
The Mirror Universe stories seem to imply that our timeline is strangely intertwined with another timeline where many things are strangely identical to ours, and many things are polar opposites.
They don't really give any indication why, if there are so many timelines, the main one is so closely connected to the "Mirror" one.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I think the "Mirror" timeline is just the dimension with the closest vibrational attunement (accounting for the means of travel to it being transpoters).
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I've never thought that the Mirror Universe was an offshoot of our timeline. I don't think it's related at all. In other words, there was no common event. Things in that universe aren't simply different or alternate versions of events, the fundamental nature of reality seems to be different.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I agree: That's why their version of Dr. Bashier is neither genetically enhanced nor is he a moron. Mean bastard though.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Not to go madly off topic, but how do you know he isn't genetically enhanced?
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
Was the exact term "Mirror Universe" actually ever used in dialogue? It certainly wasn't explicitly called that in the DS9 episodes. I suspect the TOS episode mentioned it?
It certainly seemed to be intended to be more than a mere alternate reality in TOS.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Sisko calls it tthe "Mirror Universe" (I think). How could Bashier have recieved his enhancments in the mirror universe? Even in the open environment of the Federation, it was pretty risky.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Just off the top of my head, he could have barged into a genetic enhancement lab and demanded that they fix him up. He could have been a member of a rich family that sympathised with the Klingons/Cardassians (and perhaps dobbed in dissenters), and so received special treatment.
Certainly, there's enough possibilities that we can't blindly say "he was never genetically enhanced".
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
That would be like holding a hospital hostage and expecting them to do a bone marrow transplant on your kid. It'd never work. The treatments are described as "taking weeks".
Gene re-sequencing might be somehow availavle in that universe, it's just exceedingly unlikely that a "Terran slave" would have had acess to it.
On the other hand, they refered to him as Julian, not Jules so I guess it's possible (somehow).
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Well, if people who are nice in the regular universe can be evil in the Mirror Universe, why can't people who are slow in the regular universe be normal in the Mirror Universe?
"That would be like holding a hospital hostage and expecting them to do a bone marrow transplant on your kid."
Wasn't that a Denzel Washington movie, or something?
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: That would be like holding a hospital hostage and expecting them to do a bone marrow transplant on your kid. It'd never work. The treatments are described as "taking weeks".
His parents might have forced the doctors to do it, somehow.
Or his entire family could be rebels, and they got it done on the Vulcan black-market.
Come on, if Jadzia can get her symbiote, then I'm sure Julian can get his gene resequencing.
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
Was she ever called Dax in the Mirror Universe? If not, there's no suggestion she got the slug in her. Ezri, I don't think was ever called Dax so I don't think she ever had it either.
Posted by MirrorCaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
did the Prophets manipulate the union of Joseph and Sarah Sisko in order to ensure that the Emissary, Ben Sisko would be born?
anywho, the reason the mirror universe is more complicated than an ordinary alternate timeline is because to use the original dramatic intention, there is a scientific property of that universe, its resonant frequency in relation to ours, that has caused it to become 'linked' to ours. dramatically, this means that the two universes will offer the same storylines as juxtapositions of each other. scientifically it is a property of probability.. in all the probabilities of the untold multitudes of alternate creations that have been caused by probability-splitting, this is the one universe that has a relationship of probability with our own..
Posted by Captain Boh (Member # 1282) on :
I think that Jadzia was Dax, but Ezri wasn't
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Jadzia was definitely called Dax. I can't remember about Ezri, though.
Of course, this is the same universe where Vic was human. Anything is possible.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Anything? Even the dax symbiote bursting out and singing "Hello my baby! Hello my honey, hello my ragtime gaaaalll....!"
'Cause I love that scene and I think it'd work in the mirror universe.
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
Well, I think fandom has the Mirror Universe sprouting off because Khan won the Eugenics Wars... So maybe genetically enhanced humans aren't that rare.
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
Ezri, I don't think was ever called Dax so I don't think she ever had it either.
I have a vague recollection of her objecting to being called Dax. But mirror Ezri was only in one incredibly bad episode, anyway, so I may be misremembering.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
Ezri wasn't a Dax. (ref. "The Emperor's New Cloak" [DS9])
And no, it was never called "the Mirror Universe" in dialogue. Not sure where the Okudas got that. After they popularized that term, it was used in one script for DS9, but not in the dialogue.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
I don't reckon that Bashir has had his genetic enhancement... he's just matured naturally albeit probably delayed... something that his parents feared wasn't going to happen. Again it's a nice tie in to the 5th season idea fitting in nicely with Bashir things from earlier seasons.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Did we ever see a Mirror Universe Morn?
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"Not sure where the Okudas got that."
Probably because the TOS episode that introduced it was called "Mirror, Mirror".
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
Yes, but it was never referred to as "the Mirror Universe" (or even "a mirror universe") in said episode. Unless I missed it.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
In the scripts it was referred to as "the Mirror universe".
In "Crossover" it was moreless defined as 'the other side' (ala "your side" or "our side").
In "Through the Looking Glass": Sisko referred to it as "the same parallel universe that two of my crewmembers visited a year ago".
In "Shattered Mirror": Sisko again referred to it as "the parallel universe". O'Brien referred to it "the alternate universe".
In "Resurrection": MirrorBariel twice refers to it as "the alternate universe". Also, the device used to scramble the transporter to go between universes is called a "multidimensional transporter device".
In "The Emperors New Cloak": Zek says "I'm in the Alternate Universe!"
So from that we can say, yes, "the Mirror universe" was not spoken on screen but it was referred to as such in the scripts - and "alternate" and "parallel" universe can be used interchangably....
Posted by Paladin181 (Member # 833) on :
It is never refered to as the Mirror Universe in dialoge, but because it is such a close mirror of the Star Trek universe, albeit twisted, the term Mirror Universe just makes sence. Like you would call a universe full of dinosaurs, the Dinosaur Universe. So along those lines, it really should be called the Broken Mirror Universe or something like that.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
I know it was mentioned before - when the episode aired - but what about the big muck up of basing an entire story around the Mirror Universe not having cloaking technology - when in "Shattered Mirror"? The Klingons and Cardassians - i'm guessing the Bajorans too (members of the Alliance) have cloaking technology.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
They didn't have any cloaks in "Shattered Mirror". At the beginning of "Through the Looking Glass", Klingon and Cardassian ships decloak, but they aren't said to "decloak" during dialogue. And TPTB said that it was a visual mistake.
As far as Trek mistakes go, it's really not that big. One (quick) SFX shot in an episode that aired 4 years previous.
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
The whole bit about the cloak could be that the one that they stole was far more advanced than what the Alliance had.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
True.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
quote: Like you would call a universe full of dinosaurs, the Dinosaur Universe.
Or you could have a universe with no shrimp.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Yes, but would it still have Jambalya? Or a Crab Nebula?
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