Hi Guys I was looking over at the one of the Us Navy web pages and this was on their history page what on happen on this day. It�s kind of good and bad I guess.
TODAY IN U.S. NAVAL HISTORY: May 18 1775 - Benedict Arnold captures British sloop and renames her Enterprise, first of many famous ships with that name.
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
Well, there were probably many British ships with the name Enterprize (note the "z" and not the "s") prior to the first American Enterprise.
Posted by Pwesty (Member # 1035) on :
Ya I know that there is a different between the British Enterprize and the American Enterprise. But since Star trek is more or less base upon the US Navy and a lot of the founding fathers of star trek (Roddenberry etc) were ex-navy and ex-air force personal from WW2. It does have a historical tie to the US Navy today namely cause of the other nick give to today Big E and present day USS Enterprise (CVN-65) the fleet starship! ;-)
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Although the Enterprise was named for a US ship, many of the other original starship names used were non-US. Go, Hood, go! Woo!
As to that "Enterprize" thing, when did the British change their spelling? ANd is that ship in the Enterprise title sequence based on a real one?
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Are we even sure that the sailing ship seen in the Enterprise credits is an Enterprise? Might it not simply be any of a number of ships of that era meant to represent early efforts of human exploration?
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
There is that plaque that says "HMS Enterprize" next to it.
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
The time ENT came out, I remember people saying that the z spelling was never used on any known British warship. However, it may have been frequently used on *correspondence* referring to British warships, since spelling rules weren't very rigorous back in those days.
In any case, not all the vehicles shown in the ENT opening credits are named Enterprise. Or at least weren't in our universe. After the first actual Enterprise (the shuttle orbiter, although that pic actually appears to be doctored from an Endeavour pic), we get some known non-Enterprises including Cochrane's Phoenix. So there's good reason to believe that the other spacecraft might be non-Enterprises as well.
As for the sloop Enterprise from the War of Independence, read Diane Carey's short story on her in the "Enterprise Logs" anthology... An interesting naval battle, fought at anchor!
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Doesn't the image look more like a plaque though, rather than general correspondence? If it's a mistake, where did TPTB get the idea that the British used to spell Enterprise with a "Z"?
Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on :
Probably because we wierd Brits spell everything strangely.
Although in the Universal Directory of Great Britain (1790) HMS Enterprize (28) is in ordinary at Deptford. See here
But the spelling had definitely changed by 1918 Posted by J (Member # 608) on :
I get the feeling for some reason that the reason we have a lot of British names in early trek is because they were Battleships. Hood and Lexington both were Battleships in the British fleet IIRC during WWII. Perhaps the others were too?
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
Even though it seems that Starfleet is based off the US Navy, one has to remember the US Navy is based off the Royal Navy. They were the ones that got the reformed and modernized navy that everyone else followed.
And Lexington was an American carrier in WW2. But let's see:
Enterprise: most famous as an American carrier in WW2, though there was also an HMS Enterprise during that time.
Defiant: no reference
Lexington: I just stated above
Yorktown: American carriers in WW2
Constitution: American Revolutionary War frigate still in active service
Constellation: no WW2 reference except it almost became an American battlecruiser, though 1800's American frigate still intact
Farragut: no WW2 reference that I'm aware of, but would likely be only American ships
Republic: unknown
Potemkin: Russian, though I believe it came from a fiction source
Hood: British battleship in WW2, though was it a battlecruiser?
Excalibur: I believe it came from a fiction source
Essex: American carrier in WW2
Kongo: Japanese battleship in WW2 I believe
Intrepid: American carrier in WW2 I believe
Exeter: British warship in WW2 I believe (don't recall type though)
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
I notice that there's an Essex in that list from 1970.
Couldn't the US navy come up with any names by themselves?
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
Psy, if you're referring to my list, Essex from 1970 most likely would still be the same carrier from WW2. And really, many American ship names came from the Brits. After all, the language is called English and not American.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
I meant 1790, and Wraith's list. My bad.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Well, the US has always named a lot of ships after places. And a lot of US place names are the same as British place names, given that much of the original US was settled by the British.
Posted by StarCruiser (Member # 979) on :
Quoted from Dat:
Even though it seems that Starfleet is based off the US Navy, one has to remember the US Navy is based off the Royal Navy. They were the ones that got the reformed and modernized navy that everyone else followed.
And Lexington was an American carrier in WW2. But let's see:
Enterprise: most famous as an American carrier in WW2, though there was also an HMS Enterprise during that time.
Defiant: no reference
Lexington: I just stated above
Yorktown: American carriers in WW2
Constitution: American Revolutionary War frigate still in active service
Constellation: no WW2 reference except it almost became an American battlecruiser, though 1800's American frigate still intact - Comment: Technically a "Sloop of War", not the old Constellation of the Quasi-War with France or the War of 1812.
Farragut: no WW2 reference that I'm aware of, but would likely be only American ships - Comment: USS Faragut was a destroyer, first totally new destroyer built after WWI. Named for David Farragut (naval hero).
Republic: unknown
Potemkin: Russian, though I believe it came from a fiction source - Comment: Russian Battleship involved in an early 20th century munity, prior to the 1917 Revolution.
Hood: British battleship in WW2, though was it a battlecruiser? - Comment: Battlecruiser sunk by the KMS Bismark. Terrible loss of life, and loss of a graceful, if fragile, ship.
Excalibur: I believe it came from a fiction source - Comment: King Authur's mystical sword.
Essex: American carrier in WW2
Kongo: Japanese battleship in WW2 I believe
Intrepid: American carrier in WW2 I believe
Exeter: British warship in WW2 I believe (don't recall type though) - Comment: British Heavy Cruiser, lost with ABDA (American, British, Dutch, Australian) naval forces in the pacific, some time after engaging the KMS Graf Spee at the River Platte.
End Quote - notes in body of quote...
Posted by Doctor Jonas (Member # 481) on :
You surely mean River Plate, as in R�o de la Plata, on the Argentinian-Uruguaian coast.
More information about the sinking of the Graf Spee: http://www.ocean98.org/spee.htm Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
Okay, didn't visit the link, but this is what I got:
HMS Exeter - British cruiser under the command of Admiral Sir Henry Harwood that battled the German pocket battleship Graf Spee at the Battle of the River Plate in Montevideo, Uruguay, on December 13, 1939, causing Captain Hans Langsdorff to scuttle the German ship, resulting in the first German Navy loss of WWII. The Exeter was later sunk by Japanese forces in March 1942.
HMS Ajax, a British Navy cruiser also participated in this battle.
Posted by mada101 (Member # 1285) on :
I believe that the Defiant is named after the fictional ship HMS Defiant from the movie 'Damn the Defiant!' (1962).
Posted by StarCruiser (Member # 979) on :
quote:Originally posted by Doctor Jonas: You surely mean River Plate, as in R�o de la Plata, on the Argentinian-Uruguaian coast.
I know we had a Defiance at one point but not sure about Defiant.
I wonder when the first HMS Enterprize/Enterprise was commissioned? It might be more appropriate to date 'the legend' from then. Asuming, of course, that records exist and someone's bothered to put them on the internet, or in a book. I for one am not going to trawl through the Public Records Office!
Posted by B.J. (Member # 858) on :
It doesn't seem to have a definitive beginning, considering that the first ship listed was previously a French vessel named L'Enterprise. At the very least, we can celebrate 300 years of Enterprises next May.
B.J.
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
I don't think there has been any warship named Defiant, so the first one to come along would be in Star Trek.
Edit: Never mind, I just reread a previous post.
Posted by Nim the Fanciful (Member # 205) on :
"Potemkin: Russian, though I believe it came from a fiction source - Comment: Russian Battleship involved in an early 20th century munity, prior to the 1917 Revolution."
The mutiny was real, I think the Potemkin (pron. Poutchemkin) existed, though I haven't confirmed it. Poor warships1.com that can't afford the bandwidth to show all the navies...
Also, the Galaxy-class USS Yamato, from the IJN Yamato, heaviest battleship of all time. 18in. guns...
Posted by HerbShrump (Member # 1230) on :
quote: After the first actual Enterprise (the shuttle orbiter, although that pic actually appears to be doctored from an Endeavour pic),
I can't find a picture on the Net, but the picture in the credits of ENT looks like the footage of the Shuttle Enterprise when it was rolled out for the initial public viewing. Present were several cast and crew from Star Trek.
Why go to the effort and expense of doctoring an image of Endeavour to appear like the Shuttle Enterprise when there are plenty of actual images already in the archives.
Perhaps this is a statement of our times. My step-son thought Porthos was a CGI dog. Why should we use reality for anything when CGI and fantasy will do?
Herb
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Isn't the actual signage of "Enterprise" in the wrong place on the footage used at the beginning of the show?
Posted by StarCruiser (Member # 979) on :
quote:Originally posted by Nim the Fanciful: "Potemkin: Russian, though I believe it came from a fiction source - Comment: Russian Battleship involved in an early 20th century munity, prior to the 1917 Revolution."
The mutiny was real, I think the Potemkin (pron. Poutchemkin) existed, though I haven't confirmed it. Poor warships1.com that can't afford the bandwidth to show all the navies...
Also, the Galaxy-class USS Yamato, from the IJN Yamato, heaviest battleship of all time. 18in. guns...
The Potemkin was definitely real. It was named for Grigori Aleksandrovich Potemkin, a hero of Russia from the time of Catherine the Great.
The Enterprise shuttle from the credits is a doctored pic. The name was never painted on that forward either in its initial appearance or after its modernization.
Posted by StarCruiser (Member # 979) on :
I thought someone had said that the shuttle pic in the ENT credits had the TOS cast in it, making it the Enterprise. Was that not true?
Posted by HerbShrump (Member # 1230) on :
Enterprise Shuttle with Star Trek Celebs: Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
Stealing from NASA! Way to nail the government baby! Posted by Captain Boh (Member # 1282) on :
The nasa page shows a dead image for me...
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
quote:Originally posted by TSN: I thought someone had said that the shuttle pic in the ENT credits had the TOS cast in it, making it the Enterprise. Was that not true?
I always thought that that was urban myth.
And not to nitpick the nixpicker, but don't the shuttles not have a definitive article in front of them when address by name? I thought that was the reasoning behind the NX-01 being called "Enterprise" and not "the Enterprise".
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
So what's the deal with the big letters on the ENT intro shuttle? Just a silly way to make the name more readable on television?
Posted by Pwesty (Member # 1035) on :
I was just looking at picture and see that our dear Captain in missing? Was he just to good to there? And also did you all know that in the late 70's and 80 that Nichelle Nichols was employed by NASA and was in charge of astronaut recruits and hopefuls. Most of the recruits that she launched were minority candidates of different races and/or ethnicities, as well as gender, like Guion Bluford (the first African American male astronaut), Sally Ride (the first female astronaut), Judith Resnick (one of the original female astronauts recruited by NASA, who perished during the launch of the Challenger on January 28, 1986), and Ronald McNair (another victim of the Challenger disaster). She lived in Houston, Texas during her years as a Johnson Space Center employee(IMDB)
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"And not to nitpick the nixpicker, but don't the shuttles not have a definitive article in front of them when address by name?"
I think that's a rule that applies to all ships, actually. And I think it's seldom-observed by normal people.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
I remember a mention in Takei's autobiography about Shatner not showing up at the NASA ceremony - or Roddenberry's funeral either, for that matter.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
The first USS Constellation was the first warship commissioned into the US Navy, in 1797. I would assume that there wasn't a previous British ship with the same name, because the name refers to the "constellation" of stars on the US flag.
Posted by Manticore (Member # 1227) on :
Wasn't the Constitution the first? And why am I arguing this with a history major?
(It occurs to me that the Constellation could have been the first warship, but I'm pretty sure that the Constitution was the first of her class.)
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
Actually, the very first ship in the Continental Navy was named Alfred.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Well, he does do a good job looking after Bruce.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Burns cakes, though.
Posted by StarCruiser (Member # 979) on :
I believe the "USF United States" was first - commissioning in July 1797.
USF Constellation didn't enter commission until September of that year, with USF Constitution commissioning in October 1797.
The other three "original frigates" didn't commission until after the Quasi-War with France.
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
I think we might be talking differently here. The Alfred, though not in commission, was definately in service with the Continental Navy (the very first American navy, though not authorized by a constitution). So we have the Alfred being the very first American naval ship.
Posted by Toadkiller (Member # 425) on :
quote:Originally posted by Pwesty: I was just looking at picture and see that our dear Captain in missing? Was he just to good to there? (IMDB)
He just couldn't fine a really groovy suit like the other's had....
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