So.. are there any remotely plausible storylines that would involve an old, slightly overweight Captain Kirk? Or are they going to give him a virtual CG body ?
The Temporal Cold War is out of the way, so this must be some sort of 'normal' time-travel story. Perhaps we'll see the NCC-1701. I wonder how believable it would be to have Archer & co be genuinely impressed by futuristic 60s technology..
Posted by Wraith (Member # 779) on :
quote: So.. are there any remotely plausible storylines that would involve an old, slightly overweight Captain Kirk?
Well, given that Shatner has got a CD out, it'll probably be a musical episode. Kirk's little known sideline as a singer in The Temporal Microphone nightclub.
I doubt we'll see the original NCC-1701. Unless they really do give him a CGI body, but we may see the Enterprise A. In which case Archer and co will have to be amazed by futuristic late 80s/early 90s technology.
Posted by WizArtist (Member # 1095) on :
Maybe its' Q vs. Trelaine and they both decide to have Kirk do the Picard thing form "All good things" and on the way he gets trapped in the Nexus again where he comes out thru the gateway of time which was just a prototype for the Stargate that was the prototype for the Iconian gateways that leads them to an alternate Universe where this time Kirk has a beard and gets trapped in a negative room with the two Lazuras who have turned into the wondertwins from the Justice League that turns everyone into cartoons that reveals that this was all a plot for Kirk to make it with Holly Would from Cool World....the last babe in the Megaverse that Kirk hasn't hit on.
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
Yes, that does sound the most likely plot.
They should ask Krenim to write these episodes.
Posted by Wes (Member # 212) on :
Most likely a mix of time travel or pulling a copy out of the Nexus.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Most likely the final nail in through Trek's wrists.....
I soooooooo hates Shatner!
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
If it weren't for the fact that they'll be killing off the TCW arc right at the start of the season, I'd have guessed that some temporal tinkering on the part of someone like Silik - or even Daniels, I really never felt he could be trusted and would love it if he turned out to be little better (if not worse) than Future Guy - would produce a version of Kirk from the late 22nd/early 23rd centuries, who either never went into the Nexus to begin with, or survived his emergence from it.
Shatner hasn't played Kirk in ten years, the way he looks today it'll take a damn sight more than a change of wig to make him look like a version of Kirk from before Star Trek: Generations.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Mabye we'll see a crazed mirror-universe Kirk or something: we never found out how that one died, IIRC.
The other option to (slightly) salvage this impossibly poor idea is to have Kirk in awe over Archer: some kinda hero worship thing mabye...
Man, I'd rather discover Futureguy is a Kazon than see Shatner's ego get another shot at fucking up Trek.
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
I think Spock killed mirror Kirk in a comic, but those are about as un-canon as it gets.
The Nexus does sound like a plausable scenario. The Captain's Table concept also comes to mind, though I'm not completely clear on the details of it, not sure if temporal hijinks are allowed.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
I really don't understand the venom towards Shatner. I mean, he may not be the most admirable guy in real life, but he ALWAYS played Kirk well. I'm psyched.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim: I really don't understand the venom towards Shatner. I mean, he may not be the most admirable guy in real life, but he ALWAYS played Kirk well. I'm psyched.
My venom is that the show's called "Star Trek" not "Captain Kirk". Really, the best of trek was after kirk died, and they went to considerable expense (and hype) to kill him off in a memorable way so why blow it with some cheesy return story that makes the killing of a major character in Trek even less dramatic -because you know they'll be back anyway- yawn. One of the biggest flaws in nemesis ws the obvious "reset button" that B4 is to Data's death.
Once the CGI is good enough, they'll bring back McCoy, mark my words. Less than ten years. When they make Trek about the story, and an ensamble cast, it's at it's very best (DS9) and when it centers (more than briuefly) around 1-2 characters only, it's at it's lowest (Nemesis, most TNG 2-parters).
Fortunately I've been suprised to find even the worst of Enterprise's pllot synopsis (the Borg episode) have usually been well written and enjoyable, so there's at least hope.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: Really, the best of trek was after kirk died...
I question your logic.
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
Well, it shouldn't be the Nexus . . . 2137 and 2176 are the dates for that, with Enterprise falling smack in the middle. They'd have to make the Generations Nexus the Summer Nexus versus a Winter Nexus or something.
I'm sure they're tempted to make FutureGuy be Kirk. It's an insane idea that warps continuity, so Braga will have to change underwear if he thinks of during one of his drug-crazed manias.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim:
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: Really, the best of trek was after kirk died...
I question your logic.
Clarifiaction: TNG, DS9 are both after kirk "died". Neither series needed him in it to be great- neither does Enterprise. It's a cheap gimmick in a series leaden down with far too many already.
Such things shout "Desperate for any ratings" rather than "quality".
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
So, like, I haven't been reading intensely detailed descriptions of upcoming Enterprise episodes; is the Temporal Cold War resolution an actual clearing of the table, as it were, or just a sort of, look, here are some answers, now we won't talk about this for a while unless, you know, we want to later sort of thing?
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I dont know either...I also (normally) avoid spoilers, but I cant see them just writing off the TCW...mabye putting it on the back-burner with only an episode or two pers season, but not eliminating it all together.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
I believe the exact phrase has been "wrap it up."
Posted by Kazeite (Member # 970) on :
quote:Originally posted by Guardian 2000: Well, it shouldn't be the Nexus . . . 2137 and 2176 are the dates for that, with Enterprise falling smack in the middle. They'd have to make the Generations Nexus the Summer Nexus versus a Winter Nexus or something.
I'm fairly certain that this "small" date disrepancy isn't going to stop them from using that plot device Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: Clarifiaction: TNG, DS9 are both after kirk "died". Neither series needed him in it to be great- neither does Enterprise. It's a cheap gimmick in a series leaden down with far too many already.
Such things shout "Desperate for any ratings" rather than "quality".
I agree that it's obviously a ratings gimmick. So were "Unification," (which additionally was a shameless TUC plug) "Relics," and "Trials and Tribble-ations," not to mention the Defiant and the whole friggin' Dominion War. (And look how well the latter turned out.)
Manny Coto, who helms this new season of ENT, is a very big TOS fan and is going to great lengths to tie them together. Backing him up are Mike Sussman (big fan, good writer) and the Reeves-Stevensons (big fans, occasionally good writers). To one who has kept up with the spoilers, the fourth season sounds quite frankly like a fanboy's wet dream.
And I'm all over that shit.
And while I'm with you on DS9, TNG better than TOS? No friggin' way, man. Not that it wasn't good, (in its middle seasons anyway) but it was no TOS.
And Kirk is THE MAN.
There's always been a balance (or at least a pendulum swing) in Trek between plot-driven and character-driven stories and I think this is a good thing. There's room for variation while still keeping within the mythos. I enjoy all of it to some degree (even Voyager, on occasion) simply because its Trek. I like having a wide selection. Obviously, so do a few other people, as it's been going on for roughly 40 years.
That being said, I do hope that it doesn't turn out as lame as "Shatner's" (read as "the Reeves-Stevensons'") Return novels, but at the moment I have no reason to think it will.
-MMoM Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim: I do hope that it doesn't turn out as lame as "Shatner's" (read as "the Reeves-Stevensons'") Return novels, but at the moment I have no reason to think it will.
-MMoM
THANK YOU! That's excatly what I fear will happen: we'll see it become "The Kirk show" with a non-stop ego-trip for billy-boy and stories soooooo lame that even the most rabid fanboy would cringe in his mother's basement.
I cant even look at one of those covers without feeling ill that they've catered an ENTIRE SERIES of novels to one man's ego.
I have high hopes for Coto's term at the helm but I worry so..
Time travel aside, they need to leave him dead on Veridian Six: no "Return" nonsense.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
quote:Berman said that if a deal could be reached, Shatner would play "an incarnation of Captain Kirk" in a storyline that "would have to do with an alternate reality." Previously executive producer Manny Coto had indicated that if Shatner played Kirk, it would be the authentic character, not an alternate universe version.
. . . So they can't even get their stories straight. Or, more likely, Berman knows that once they bring the "proper" Kirk back, the fan pressure to do more with him would be enormous. Coto, by his own admission looking at it more from the fan perspective, knows that the only way to really satisfy the punters is to have the real deal.
An alternate-universe Kirk wouldn't provide the necessary "oomph" and would be disrespectful to the memory of the character; the only exception would perhaps be the Mirror Kirk, and that might remind too many people of the Emperor Tiberius from the Return novels.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Does that matter that much, though? How many people are likely to notice? Of those, how many are likely to care, or think it is a bad thing rather than "Oh boy, now maybe we can finally get that Federation movie made!!!"?
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Maybe I phrased that last bit wrong. Shatner - or rather the Reeves-Stevenses (we hates it! we hates it for ever!) - had enough of a struggle tying together the Mirror Universe suggested by "Mirror, Mirror" with the outcome that we saw in DS9. I don't know how many people actually read those books, maybe to most the idea of a mad emperor Tiberius would be a new and novel idea. It's far more likely that instead all the Jasons of this world who hold DS9 as the pinnacle of Trek would be offended at anything which contradicted their idea of the Mirror Universe.
There are a lot of people out there who love TOS. God knows enough of them are prop-fans (for every one of them who bought one of the Master Replicas TOS phasers, there were two more who refused to because it wasn't accurate in some minute detail). Bringing Shatner back is an attempt to get them interested in Trek again.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Oh, I agree with that. I guess I'm just saying that the majority of people to whom Captain Kirk = Star Trek are probably people with fond memories of the old show, possibly not even their own, who have since gone on to other things, and not, for the most part, people who have kept up with Star Trek, even in novel form.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Or, perhaps, "especially" in novel form.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Maybe. My mind is popping a metaphoric clutch at the distinction in this case, at the moment.
Posted by The Captain from M.I.K.E. (Member # 709) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sol System: So, like, I haven't been reading intensely detailed descriptions of upcoming Enterprise episodes; is the Temporal Cold War resolution an actual clearing of the table, as it were, or just a sort of, look, here are some answers, now we won't talk about this for a while unless, you know, we want to later sort of thing?
Because if they do a story firmly establishing that the Temporal War is over, then its not entirely unlikely that a few years later Daniels some other version of Daniels or FG from "before" the war ended will appear, stopping off in 2157 on his way home from 2152 or something. Then Future Guy will reward some Klingons with Suliban-like ability to temporarily flatten their foreheads some years later.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lee: It's far more likely that instead all the Jasons of this world who hold DS9 as the pinnacle of Trek would be offended at anything which contradicted their idea of the Mirror Universe.
Actually, I alwys considered the mirroe universe thing to be the weakest DS9 storyline nad would welcome seeing a crazy Kirk "Emperor" of that universe...that could be cool. What I find offensive is the larger-than death unkillable Kirk of the books that ALWAYS saves the day and just wont stay dead...
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
For the record, I was speaking of the character from TOS and the films. And I too agree that a good deal of DS9 (though certainly not all) is an excellent example of Trek at it's best. But of course I feel the same is true of TOS, TMP, TSFS, a bit of TNG, and some of ENT.
-MMoM Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
(The first DS9 mirror universe episode was great. The rest: increasingly less so. Or at least so I recall; I've never seen "The Emperor's New Cloak.")
It occurs to me that, from a linear perspective, this Temporal Cold War might never end, nor would its combatants be discernable, necessarily, even if you were one of them. It would be nightmarishly twisty. How could you ever declare an armistice, or even a ceasefire? A war among time travelers (in a universe that allows for such things) could quickly become a war without a beginning, and how do you stop something that continues to exist when its causes are removed? I mean, what are the win conditions here? Maybe no faction, not even Future Guy's or Daniels', knows who their enemies are. A war of agents fighting the agents of other agents, where the true antagonists aren't just hidden behind the scenes; they don't exist at all.
But this might be a bit ambitious. And anyway, I get the feeling that a TCW resolution would probably propagate throughout the timeline, much like the destruction of those Expanse spheres. It certainly makes things easier from a storytelling point of view.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
The TCW is over when all your enemies never realize they were your enemies. Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Who cares about Kirk? Spock's where it's at.
I'd love to see Leonard Nimoy on there playing Solkar or Skonn? fater and grandfather of Sarek.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I'd rather see someone else as those characters really. I'd like to see a young T'Prynn (I think that's her name- the old lady that judges everyone).
Mostly, I'd like to see new characters though: there's a hundred years of ships and legends in the making without having ever having to dip into relatives of established charcters.
Give me more Andorians and aliens we've only seen a few times: I'd be happy to see more Tellerites, some Cordians and, yes, I want to see the Tholians again! Loves me some Tholians. Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
Her name was T'Pau and there are spoilers for the early fourth season involving her.
Also, more Andorians and Tellarites are on the way. But first, the Orions. Unfortunately, no one's said anything about the Tholians.
And wasn't the Vulcan dude from the end of First Contact supposed to be Solkar? He was called that in Decipher's card game, and later in an ENT ep T'Pol said that he was the first ambassador to Earth.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Orions- coooool. Hopefully they'll be green.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Hopefully they'll be female.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
Oh, they will. They will...
Posted by Fleet-Admiral Michael T. Colorge (Member # 144) on :
Yep, I've seen the women and the makeup. If only Paramount were hiring body makeup artists for that Orion episode. Nice work if you can get it...
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
(I thought you were gay.)
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Are we talking about Orion Slave Women, or Orion Pirates, which may or may not actually be the same thing?
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
There was a picture of an Orion pirate, and he was green. I think someone has just assumed that Orion slave girls and Orion crime syndicates come from the same place.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Nimoy has, of course, retired from acting and directing to focus on his photography.
Posted by WizArtist (Member # 1095) on :
So if an Andorian and a Orion mate do you get an AquaMarine to add to the MACO's?
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
*drops a 16-ton weight on Wiz*
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lee: There was a picture of an Orion pirate, and he was green. I think someone has just assumed that Orion slave girls and Orion crime syndicates come from the same place.
This is merely in keeping with what has been shown in the animated episode "The Pirates of Orion" and the comics, among other sources.
If anyone actually wants to look over the known spoilers for ENT season four, they are all collected and organized by episode here. Just scroll down to "Season 4."
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"This is merely in keeping with what has been shown in the animated episode 'The Pirates of Orion' and the comics, among other sources."
Although, those were OR-ee-ons, whereas the group in the non-animated series have always been or-EYE-ons.
Personally, I always liked to think the Orions were different from the green chicks. But that's just because I like to be contradictory.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
Wasn't it only Kirk (or rather Shatner) who mis-pronounced it? Didn't everyone else say it correctly?
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: Mostly, I'd like to see new characters though: there's a hundred years of ships and legends in the making without having ever having to dip into relatives of established charcters.
Or established anything (within reason) That was the problem with Voyager - a whole QUADRANT to explore - but they eventually started having Klingon episodes.
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: Give me more Andorians and aliens we've only seen a few times: I'd be happy to see more Tellerites, some Cordians and, yes, I want to see the Tholians again! Loves me some Tholians.
I agree! MORE THOLIANS! That VOICE of theirs in "Cold Front" I think it was - with the crackles and the screaching and the everything - was *shiver* SO cool. Very well done!
"Jonathon... Archer... *squeal/squeek*"
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I get to see the master of a Enterprise-era Tholian model ship tomorrow! I have to make myself a DS9 version of that ship: something about 250 merers long (a battleship for them, I'd guess).
Posted by WizArtist (Member # 1095) on :
merers.....what is that at 1/2600 scale?
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
"Meters, wiseacre...and it's 2500th scale I model in, pallie. Posted by lennier1 (Member # 1309) on :
@Topic: How often do they have to kill that arrogant @$$hole again?
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Other than the one time he's been killed on screen? Apparently at least once more. Though, noone's actually talking about him dying again...
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Yeah...that's the scary part: that they'll leave him alive.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"Wiseacre"? What is that, about four-tenths of a wisehectare?
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
A twentith of a square wise-kilometer.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Pedantically: wiseacre Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I love dictionary.com. I subscribe to word of the day. That's how come I'm smart.
Posted by WizArtist (Member # 1095) on :
So....Aban is a Paklid?
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
*cough* Pakled *cough*.
Posted by StarLord (Member # 1430) on :
I like the idea of a musical Trek, with Kirk singing "Rocket Man". I thought that the Kirk appearance was only a rumor and nothing more. Any chance this is really going to happen?
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
not unless paramount offers him more money
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Which is strange, as the man is currently advertising Kellogs Bran Flakes on TV over here. I can't imagine that they're paying him THAT much. Although he does get to walk around in a dressing gown, so maybe that's what swung it for him...
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
i hear him doing radio spots here still for priceline...as well as tv.
Posted by Captain Boh (Member # 1282) on :
He was on a Rodger's Video ad recently as well
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
He's wrapping up a reality TV series where a crew of moviemakers (led by Shatner) shoot a low-budget sci-fi movie in a small town. I guess it's all about pushing the locals as far as they'll go with it.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
It's called "Invasion Iowa":
quote:William Shatner spoofs/punks a whole midwestern town, (Riverside, Iowa, aka: the birth place of his Star Trek character, Captain Kirk) who think he is in town to shoot a big-budget, action-adventure film.
Posted by StarLord (Member # 1430) on :
These rumors have been floating around for a while. I personally hope they are true, because it really would be an event if Kirk appeared on Enterprise.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Well, I believe official sources have already said he won't be because the show wouldn't pay him enough.
As for it being an event, as with ever so many things, it would only be an event if the story was good. Otherwise, it would just suck.
Also, this thread is a month old.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
?![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)