I've been reading your posts for a long time nw. I was unable to put a post up due to my email. I even put posts up on Utopia Planitia's forums.
I think that you heard this already but... the Defiant is gernerally as powerful as a Galaxy class. My problem is before the Defiant, there are 6 Galaxy class ships and an odd number of ships. But after the Defiant proved its value as a warship in combat, StarFleet is still building Galaxy class ships. Sure they are great for transporting troops, but you can get 3-5 Defiants out of a Galaxy at a fraction of the time to build one Galaxy given that they are built at the same time. Now they are building the Sovereign class. Why?
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Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
You cannot have a well-rounded fleet consisting of only one class of ship, no matter how useful it is. The Defiant and Galaxy classes are about as different as ships can be, and one does not preclude the existance of the other.
------------------ "Fishing promotes a clean mind, healthy body and leaves no time for succumbing to Communistic or Socialistic propaganda." -- Ivar Hemmings, chairman, South Bend Bait Company
Posted by Crusader on :
What I meant was that if you want to fight a war you have to use your resources wisely. In a war you might want small but powerful such as a Sabre or a Defiant. In peaceful missions during peaceful times yes you might what to have other classes besides warships. Galaxys in my opinion is alrge ship that should not be built in large numbers to combat a major threat such as the Dominion. They have used the idea of using both sizes but the smaller always dominated the battles. Defiants should be that way, but not built in such large quanities that when the war is over you have a major surplus of ships that has no use but combat. That's where other classes come in.
------------------ Only you can decide your fate, not someone else
Posted by Mucus (Member # 24) on :
Erm, you're forgeting the a certain fact.
We've only seen the Defiant class twice without the DS9 crew.
We can't use Sisko and crew as an accurate estimate of the Defiant's performance since writers always make ships that main cast members are on unusually resilient.
I meant how many times have we seen a runabout managing to hold off Jem'Hadar bugs with say Nog, Rom, Odo, or whatever on board. However the Odyssesy without cast members was nuked.
Personally, I think the performance of the Defiant class is overated, in the case of the Valiant it got nuked and for the Voyager episode it looked merely adequate.
------------------ If a tree falls on a mime in the forest...does anyone care?
Posted by bear (Member # 124) on :
I personally always loved the Galaxy class , but I also appreciate the Defiant class. In general I like to think that the Galaxy and Defiant classes have about the same firepower , but the Galaxies could probable disapate more weapons fire. Galaxies I would think would make a very easy target , and would have to depend on its shields more. While the Defiant might be the preferred class to get in fire fight with, its design limits it to not much more than a warship, and starfleet would take the explorer over the warship any day.
Posted by Aethelwer (Member # 36) on :
Of course, there's that scene with the Galaxies attacking the Galor in SoA...I just can't imagine a pair of Defiants doing the same thing in the same amount of time...
------------------ http://frankg.dgne.com/ Walter Barnett: "D-Did that thing just shatter an overpass into dust?" Donny Finkleberg: "No, I...I think it was an entrance ramp."
Posted by Montgomery (Member # 23) on :
Galaxy Classes are great ships, but not ideal warships. Sure, finish the ones you're already making, but far wiser to build lots of smaller, heavily armed vessels like Mirandas, sabres, akiras, Excelsiors, souped-up norways, etc.
Well that's what I'd do.
------------------ "Plagues extinguished, the world becomes smaller. For a long time there is peace in empty lands. People will walk safely by air, land, sea, waves. Then again wars will be stirred up..."
- Nostradamus, 1568
Posted by bryce (Member # 42) on :
You gotta remember the Valiant was being ran by glorified cadets! The Defiant was only destroyed using a weapon Starfleet had never encountered before. The Defiants are not overrated. Despite, Sector 001, where Picard is the only man qualified to fight the Borg. Plus, that was a TNG movie so of course they are going to beat up the Defiant.
Galaxy production should be stopped now while at war and Starfleet should concentrate on building smaller, more powerful ships. They should restart Galaxy production when the war is over.
The Sovs are just a hybrid of the Gaxalies and the newer ships such as the Defiant. It is a Gaxaly with more teeth. Its current production is justified. They have most of the size and luxuries of a Galaxy with the weapons of a Defiant
------------------ All Sisko needs is ANOTHER tall ship and a star to steer her by.
Posted by The359 (Member # 37) on :
Yes, but what do you do AFTER the war? I mean, running around with mostly warships isn't going to help your science and peace divisions that much, so then your going to suddenly see a boost of science, freight, explorers, etc. Why have these big jumps and such? Why not keep everything round, keep build so much percent explorers, so much percent scouts, so much percent warships, I mean, an explorer can still fight. It may not be as good, but it'll still fight. Of course, building a bunch of Defiant's is stupid once the war is over, what can a Defiant do for science? Practically nothing...
------------------ "The one, the only, THE 359!"
Posted by Brown_supahero (Member # 83) on :
Galaxy Class Starship is more powerful than the Defiant Class cause it has to create a larger warp field than the Defiant. This causes Galaxy's phaser power to be stronger. Look at the battle scene's. it takes only one shot (phasers) for the galaxy to destroy a Jem'haddar fighter, while the defiant takes three (phasers).
If you compare size to power ratio, it is obvious that the defiant is stronger.
the defiant is a good warship, it's small size and agility in sub-warp speed, added with weapons, such as fountain stream phasers and quantum torpedos, make it an excellent in war
But in shear power output, i believe the galaxy is stronger
------------------ Homeboy in Outerspace
Posted by bryce (Member # 42) on :
Some one w/ a tech. manual needs to look this up, but I remember something like the Defiants used a modified Galaxy warp core to power itself. (?)
Besides you gotta take into account the Defiants use weapons we have never seen a Galaxy use before, such as Quantum torpedos and phaser cannons. The U.S.S. Galaxy was shown just firing phasers and photon torpedos, if I remember correctly.
------------------ All Sisko needs is ANOTHER tall ship and a star to steer her by.
Posted by Curry Monster (Member # 12) on :
I think you need to consider a few things when deciding the makeup of any fleet. Firstly, what is it's primary role? Secondly, what are the available resources you have to build and manage the fleet and thirdly, what is the current threat scenario?
In the case of the Federation we have: 1. Purpose is defence and science 2. Resources seem to be unlimited. More defined by manpower than raw materials. 3. The Region was at peace during the period the galaxy class was concieved of. Now, as you recall the minute a credible threat appeared in the form of the Borg the Defiant class was concieved of. Pretty good response time.
The Galaxy class is a command ship/battlecruiser. The Defiant is a destoryer. Whilst logically you need more destroyers than battlecruisers you cannot have one to the exclusion of the other. Until this point the Federation fleet was more than sufficient to defend it. However the Dominion have added a whole new part of the Federations security equation, and I think they would deploy more of the Defiant class, as well as building more aggressive cruisers and battlecruisers in the future.
------------------ 'Sir, you've been ordered not to take Polermo'
'Ring General HQ, ask them if they want me to give it back'.
[This message was edited by Brown_supahero on May 09, 1999.]
Posted by Curry Monster (Member # 12) on :
Yup, it's a funny pic.
------------------ 'Sir, you've been ordered not to take Polermo'
'Ring General HQ, ask them if they want me to give it back'.
Posted by Federation Shipmaster (Member # 15) on :
Where are UP's forums? The Danube patch isn't as cool.
------------------ What bloke invented signatures?
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
Wha you need to remember is that, with a good pilot, a fighter will beat up a bigger ship any day. Of course, fighter is a relative term. To a Borg Cube, the Neg'Vahr(SP?) Klingon ship is a fighter, to that, an Intrepid, to an Intrepid, the Defiant, and to the Defiant, something like Data's scout ship. That's what Starfleet should mass-produce: a warp-capable, heavily armed, one man fighter.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
I disagree. Any small ship is limited in the power it can produce. Let's take a Peregrine (I assume the Peregrine class to be the fighters from SofA.) versus a Jem'Hadar bug, for example.
The Bug is a much larger vessel. As such, it holds more fuel, and a larger engine. It can put more power into its shields then the Peregrine can put out. You need more then one to overcome the shields. The question is, is it cheaper to build a squadron of fighters, or a starship? The answer depends on how many fighters you need to generate enough energy to break through the shields of your enemy.
We have seen the Federation use fighters for two purposes, so far. The first, in SofA, is to goad the Cardassian ships into chasing them. The second, in "The Changing Face of Evil," is to provide reconnaissance. (Much like those small ships Baloo designed.)
From this limited evidence, it would seem clear that the Peregrines aren't meant to take on capital ships alone.
------------------ "You hear about 'constitutional rights,' 'free speech,' and the 'free press.' Every time I hear these words I say to myself, 'That man is a Red!!...' You never hear a real American talk like that!" -- Mayor Frank Hague, Jersey City
Posted by Curry Monster (Member # 12) on :
Federation Shipmaster, the UP forums were closed well over a year ago. If you are refering to the original ones which were in wwwboard format.
------------------ 'Sir, you've been ordered not to take Polermo'
'Ring General HQ, ask them if they want me to give it back'.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 24) on :
...well Starfleet or at least Earth DOES have those puny fighters which got really splatted near Mars in "Best of Both Worlds"....
------------------ If a tree falls on a mime in the forest...does anyone care?
Posted by Warped1701 (Member # 40) on :
But those fighters were going to attack a Borg cube. You would expect them to survive such a thing? It's impossible to determine their capabilities by matching them with a far superior enemy like the Borg.
------------------ "Angels and Ministers of Grace, defend us" -Hamlet, Act I, Scene IV
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
The Mars Defense Perimeter is actually composed of unmanned vessels, according to the encyclopedia.
------------------ "You hear about 'constitutional rights,' 'free speech,' and the 'free press.' Every time I hear these words I say to myself, 'That man is a Red!!...' You never hear a real American talk like that!" -- Mayor Frank Hague, Jersey City
