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Posted by Black Knight (Member # 134) on :

Just thought you might want to know (if you didn't already) that the Enterprise-D was at the Utopia Planitia Fleetyards in the Voyager episode 'Relativity.' http://members.aol.com/bobatrek2/shipyard1.jpg

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Posted by Black Knight (Member # 134) on :

But somehow, I don't remember this in the episode (i guess it probably was just bad memory on my part) http://members.aol.com/bobatrek2/shipyard2.jpg

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Posted by USS Vanguard (Member # 130) on :

Hey cool, I'm surprised no-one's noticed. But that pic seems awful crisp and precise, are you sure it was from the episode?

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"Homer, you're dumb as a mule and twice as ugly,
if a strange man offers you a ride, I say take it"-Abe S.

Posted by First of Two (Member # 16) on :

Don't believe the hype.

The above pics are taken directly from the new Star Trek: Ships of the Line 2001 CALENDAR.

Several of the images created for the calendar never actually appeared on screen the way they do in the calendar.

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"Nobody knows this, but I'm scared all the time... of what I might do, if I ever let go." -- Michael Garibaldi

Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :

That means its not neccessarily from the time of "Relativity"

BUT! The Modifications to the hull seen in Generations are on the ship... so it has to be sometime between All Good Things... and Generations.

Didn't the episode also have very different space stations in the background!?! not the 'spacedock'...

Also why can't they show us in these calendars a nice crisp view of a Sabre/Steamrunner/Norway!?!

And... that second pic link up there, look to the bottom right 'space assembly' looks like there is a constitution refit in there... you can clearly see the saucer type, but the nacelle position is a bit difficult to make out. Seeing as it is CGI though, I assume its of a Miranda... I wonder if they could reuse the CGI they did of the Soyuz and Ambassador from the colour version of the encyclopaedia!?!

There is also a Sabre in the first pic, on the bottom right...

Andrew

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"Neil says hi by the way" - Tear In Your Hand, Tori Amos

[This message has been edited by AndrewR (edited July 26, 2000).]

Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :

I was the one who brought up the content of the calendar. There are no modifications to the E-D in the pic, so it could be any time. Also, I don't think the Ambassador or Soyuz was ever CGIed. And yes, it's not from the episode, but it's still most likely UP, given a red planet, but the big spacedocks still don't measure up with the episode.

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Teddy Roosevelt: "Speak softly and carry a big stick."
Yosemite Sam: "Well, I speak loudly and I carry a bigger stick...and I use it too!"

[This message has been edited by PopMaze (edited July 26, 2000).]

Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :

We should be happy this scene wasn't in the actual episode. Not only does it place a Galaxy, an Akira and an apparent Steamrunner in identical-looking "box" docks, screwing up the relative sizes of these vessels royally. It also places that Sabre in a McKinley-style "spider" dock, making it as big as a Galaxy!

IIRC, the actual "Relativity" scenes did show one Galaxy under repairs or construction, in a McKinley-style dock, but so far away that we couldn't see the registry.

Timo Saloniemi

Posted by Obi Juan (Member # 90) on :

Who says all spider type docks are the same size as McKinley?

Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :

Yes, that is the 'touched up' Enterprise D... look at the boxes around the lifeboat hatches... that is the dead give away for the Generations version.

Yes, the stations maybe scaleable - otherwise the E-B and the Voyager and the Galaxy are all the same size...

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"Neil says hi by the way" - Tear In Your Hand, Tori Amos

Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :

Actually, wasn't the Galaxy in "Relativity" right below the camera? So that we saw out over the top of it? Or so I recall...

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"If Picard was set loose on a Monopoly board, he'd try and establish peaceable diplomatic relations with Marvin Gardens and give St. James Place wide berth so that its culture could develop without interference."
--
L. Fitzgerald Sjoberg
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Read chapter one of "Dirk Tungsten in...The Disappearing Planet"! Because I'm the passenger, and I ride and I ride.

Posted by spyone on :

quote:
Yes, the stations maybe scaleable - otherwise the E-B and the Voyager and the Galaxy are all the same size...

Actually, Voyager is about the same size as the old Enterprise (Constitution Class) which was refit in a dock like that.

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You're a Starfleet Officer. "Weird" is part of the job.

Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :

Ahhh, but there was plenty of space in that spacedock when the E was in it. And of course the E-B was in it not to mention a Galaxy in the Calendar...

Andrew

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"Neil says hi by the way" - Tear In Your Hand, Tori Amos

Posted by ASDB_J (Member # 312) on :

Hi, all ~

Well, IMHO the spacedock structures (both spider & lattice) are made of relatively simple parts - and therefore are more likely to be scaleable than, say, a Klingon BoP... :-D

Actually, I think the bigger problem here is:

"How many Ournal Class spacedocks are there in the Terran System??"

We know there was one in orbit of Earth in the time of ST3-ST6, at least. We were not given the opportunity to see it in Generations, during the launch of the Ent-B, but it prolly still was there.

We saw pretty much most of the UP vista in "Relativity," so we can safely assume there were none there in 2371 - if this calendar pic is from before then, we could assume they moved the one from Earth orbit to Mars orbit...

My point is, there appears to be a second Ournal spacedock behind the prominent one...! The sections seem to match the one from the movies better than the newly-seen ones in the Voyager episode...

Who knows how old the Ournals are...? Who knows what they do with or plan on doing with them after 100 or 150 years...?

Oh, BTW - the Ent-D here IMNSVHO ^_^ could be from any time, later in the series - I believe that VFX changes do not necessarily date a ship's presence. One example, off the top of my head, could be the "Flashback" Excelsior model - it had alternating blue-glowing / dark-black nacelles, but its date remained, even though the glowing ones are from the DS9-era... ...and the Cardie Galor Class from "The Voyager Conspiracy" was the modern CGI one from "Sacrifice of Angels," not the one which would have been seen in "Caretaker" - a physical studio model... :-D

Damn - I just can not stop myself from getting into 'rant mode' in forums... Even when no one disagrees with me... Though there always seems to be someone who does... :-D

~ Jason :-)

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STAR TREK: BEYOND - http://stbeyond.homestead.com

Get ready for a dual-ship series dealing with multiple timelines.... *grins*

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

The real question is, what the smeg is an "Ournal Class spacedock"? :-)

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Pickhard: "What is our progress, Beta?"
Beta: "Excellent, captain. I require only one more Thunderstone to evolve my Pikachu to level 47."
-from the Sev Trek movie trailer

Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :

Fandom designation for the spacedock, Tim :-P

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"Fragile. Do not drop"
--posted on a Boeing 757

Posted by Vacuum robot lady from Spaceballs (Member # 239) on :

Is the 'Ournal' spacedock in the lineage of the 'Moo-Moo Pie' Spacedock?

(Note 'Moo-Moo Pie' is a completely arbitrary designation for the spacedock. As is 'Ournal' For the sake of understanding, please designate when something is Fandom. IE: Made Up.)

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Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :

Why? Oh, I forgot. This board is populated by canon nazis... Please forgive us followers of fandom

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"Fragile. Do not drop"
--posted on a Boeing 757

Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :

The mushroom spacedocks from the Calendar are strange - the 'double mushrooms' are in that position in Relativity... The Akira and Galaxy ships are in the EXACT same positions - but they've taken out the 'double mushrooms' and put in two single mushrooms!

Why!?!

The first pic up there has the E-D but an exact similar scene in Relativity has the same ships except where the E-D is there is that Excelsior being built... that one with the Resgistry everyone tries to work out. 4xx11 or whatever.

Andrew

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"Neil says hi by the way" - Tear In Your Hand, Tori Amos

Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :

I think that the Calendar picture should be ignored if possible, because of the way it complicates things...

As for the boxy wireframe docks, I think there are two distinct types nowadays, with a third relegated to the dusty shelves of historical archives:

1) The no longer used design of ST:TMP and ST2, with swinging working lights, anchoring beams, gangways and whatnot and with a vertical wall three "squares" high.

2) A CGI version of the "Generations" dock, which was originally a physical model made by removing the bells and whistles from the ST:TMP model, removing one layer of "squares" from the vertical walls to create a lower and thus wider-looking structure, and adding the bulky docking structure at the top and the pavilion-like structure on the port side wall.

3) A CGI version which reinstates the "three-square" vertical wall but also incorporates the bulky docking and pavilion structures of the "Generations" dock.

There is nothing to say that versions 2 and 3 have to be of the same width and just different height. Version 3 could be significantly smaller than version 2 - we only see Excelsiors and Mirandas in version 3 in the real UP scenes, while Akiras and Steamrunners are in version 2 box docks and Galaxies only in McKinley-style spider docks.

Only the noncanon Calendar shots place Galaxies in version 3 (and Sabres in the spider dock)...

Then again, I think the Voyager herself was in a version 2 dock and almost filled it, which IMHO was an absurd scene anyway - the window rows in the pavilion structure clearly indicated a scale completely different from that of the starship!

Timo Saloniemi

Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :

::Enjoys the pretty pictures without analyzing every detail::

Which is really the whole point, it's not meant to stand up to the intense criticism or issues of canon. Besides, this is the Voyager department, do you really think they concern themselves with such trivial issues as continuity and canon?

I was looking at the pics from the calendar I have on my computer and I noticed if you put 2 of the images together they form one large image. If you put the one with the E-D, Akira, and Saber and line it up with the one with the Galaxy, Akira, and spacedock. How many UP scenes in the calendar are there? So far I know of 3, the two mentioned, and the one with the Galaxy in drydock. I think there's at least another, since the spacedock image shows part of a drydock station.

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O'Neill: "Captain James T. Kirk of the Starship Enterprise."
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[This message has been edited by Hobbes (edited July 31, 2000).]

Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :

Hobbes, there are only two UP pics in the calendar. The cover and the center. Black Knight just divided up the center pic into two jpeg images so they wouldn't be so large.

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Teddy Roosevelt: "Speak softly and carry a big stick."
Yosemite Sam: "Well, I speak loudly and I carry a bigger stick...and I use it too!"

Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :

Really... I guess that makes sense. I really need to find that calendar.

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Thornbird: "I'm Major Robert Thornbird. And you are?"
O'Neill: "Captain James T. Kirk of the Starship Enterprise."
This post sponsered in part by the Federation Starship Datalink

Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :

Well reguarding continuity - I was just reading "The Continuing Mission" and it was quoted by someone - Robert Justman or Michael Piller - that Star Trek is not a show that people put on in the background. It is intensely watched and has a clever audience who NOTICE these things. I think it shows something about the show and its viewership - when such details are adhered to AND when annoyingly overlooked. For the producers to say - oh well happily override existing continuity for the sake of a story - that is them sticking a big old thumb in the viewers eyes, and basically saying that they are now making Trek to be shown as 'background TV' not as an intesily followed work.

Andrew

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"Neil says hi by the way" - Tear In Your Hand, Tori Amos

Posted by Black Knight (Member # 134) on :

Well, it actually wasn't me who divided up the images. I think they were at http://www.lcarscom.net/
I know these came from the calendar. But I was just thinking of the possibility that they (as 3d artists) wouldn't neccessarily redo the entire scene. But, I guess the really big spacedocks weren't at Relativity. So this is definately non-cannon. The ships are, but not the scene.

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Quantum Threshold--Redesigned!
Avalon Sector--Redesigned!

Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :

That's canon with one "n", Kyle.

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"Fragile. Do not drop"
--posted on a Boeing 757

[This message has been edited by Fabrux (edited August 01, 2000).]

Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :

I believe continuity is an extremely important factor. In fact, I recall reading somewhere that it's one of things Gene Roddenberry was proud of most. I was making a sarcastic remark towards the Voyager department (Braga) view on it.

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Thornbird: "I'm Major Robert Thornbird. And you are?"
O'Neill: "Captain James T. Kirk of the Starship Enterprise."
This post sponsered in part by the Federation Starship Datalink

Posted by Black Knight (Member # 134) on :

But of course.

caNon

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Quantum Threshold--Redesigned!
Avalon Sector--Redesigned!

Posted by Austin Powers (Member # 250) on :

By the way, the class name "Ournal" for the mushroom-type Spacedock is not completely fandom-created.

It also appears in the 1996 Star Trek Space Ships calendar (April) with the designation given as "Ournal Class" and even a registry of NCC-S-1.

The text also states that there are a total of 12 of them. I should point out that I have the German edition of the calendar. An English version might be different. Perhaps Bernd knows something about it?

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groovy baby!

[This message has been edited by Austin Powers (edited August 08, 2000).]

Posted by USS Vanguard (Member # 130) on :

That's pretty cool, I mean the registry system. Maybe different starbases have a different letter, so the "office building" type might be NCC-D-7 or whatever. Too bad its all non-canon...

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"Homer, you're dumb as a mule and twice as ugly,
if a strange man offers you a ride, I say take it"-Abe S.

Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :

Hey, there is one tidbit that is at least semi-canon: the shuttlecraft attached to space station K-7 in "Trials and Tribble-ations" was labeled NCC-K-7, even though this was of course far too tiny to see in the episode itself. Since shuttles so far have always been labeled with the registry of their mothership, this would indicate that the station's registry in its entirety was NCC-K-7. How fortunate that this agrees with the NCC-S-1 theory...

Timo Saloniemi

Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :

Or, rather, how fortunate it wasn't actually legible on screen... :-)

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Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :

I haven't made a single comment on this thread.