In the ongoing struggle against misconceptions perpetuated by the Encyclopedias, here's a question:
In which episode and in what context was the freighter Xhosa, captained by Kasidy Yates, identified as an Antares class vessel? Or was it so identified at all?
I'm rather sure the name Antares was not used in "Way of the Warrior" or "For the Cause", which featured this ship in a prominent role. But I also think I did hear the name uttered somewhere. Am I imagining things?
Timo Saloniemi
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Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :
Looking at my Antares-class page I have this entry for the Xhosa.
SS Xhosa NAR- Small cargo freighter owned by Petarian interests. In 2372, commanded by Kasidy Yates, the Xhosa was intercepted by the Klingon Bird-of-Prey, the IKS M'Char. Xhosa is pronounced 'Zosha.' The exterior of the Xhosa was a re-use of Batris ("Heart of Glory" - TNG). The bridge interior, seen in "For the Cause" - DS9, had a control panel and instrument designs that were closely based to the panels designed for the original USS Enterprise bridge. "Way of the Warrior" - DS9.
That's basically what I got from the ST:Encyclopedia. I get the feeling though at the DS9 creative staff wanted to show it was Federation in origin since it has TOS Enterprise style computers. And I also know that the Antares-class issue is a big mess which I try to avoid cause it gives me a headache trying to figure it all out.
------------------ Calvin: "Nothing spoils fun like finding out it builds character." This post sponsered in part by the Federation Starship Datalink
[This message has been edited by Hobbes (edited October 16, 2000).]
Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :
I too seem to remember that Kasidy's ship was given some class designation in some episode. I suspect that whoever wrote the dialog might have read about Okuda's idea of the alleged Talarian-Antares and might have thought that the Xhosa should be of the same class.
------------------ "Species 5618, human. Warp-capable, origin grid 325, physiology inefficient, below average cranium capacity, minimum redundant systems, limited regenerative abilities." Ex Astris Scientia
------------------ "My Name is Elmer Fudd, Millionaire. I own a Mansion and a Yacht." Psychiatrist: "Again."
Posted by grb on :
The Xhosa were a tribe in southern Africa, I believe. They were defeated by the Zulu, after which the Zulu were taken over by Dutch settlers, after which the Dutch were taken over by English settlers. The new government set up the apartheid regime that lasted until 1990.
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Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
And it isn't pronounced "zo-sa", as I recall. The "xh" is actually some sort of odd clicking sound that only exists in the Xhosa language.
------------------ "Count the arms, the legs, and heads, and then divide by five." -They Might Be Giants, "Certain People I Could Name"
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Try saying "Door-sah!" and sucking instead of blowing on the D... Kind of like the clip-clop sound you make to imitate a horse's hooves on pavement, just a tad softer.
I'm not sure if I ever got it right, but at least that's the kind of pronunciation I was taught in a choir project once.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Dosa?? Like in "MANDOZA!!!!!!!!!!!" exclaimed by McBain aka Ranier Wolfcastle on The Simpsons.
I heard that the African people known as the Xhosa, were actually a 'tribe' who had a belief that their ancestors would rise up and defeat the British who were opressing/controlling them at the time. They put so much belief in this "prophecy" that they destroyed all their food... They later died from starvation.
Well that was one of those "factoids" they provided as they went to the ad break on the History Channel on a show about Prophecies.
Andrew
------------------ "I threw bitter tears at the ocean But all that came back was the tide..." 'I Will Not Forget You' Sarah McLachlan
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
I believe that the Xhosa and the Zulu were mostly language groups instead of specific tribes, and that both language families survive to this day in RSA, along with a dozen other official language groups. More than one tribe or kingdom would have spoken IsiXhosa or IsiZulu during the course of the history, and the current "Zulu tribe" mightn't be such a unified whole at all if not for the political benefits of claiming that it is a single tribe.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
This just in from Okuda: the Xhosa apparently had a dedication plaque, done in the TOS style. It read something like "SS Xhosa, Antares class, Copernicus Shipyards", no launch date, no list of fake Starfleet bigwig names, no indication of this being a Starfleet dedication plaque. The intention was to pay homage to the ship of "Charlie X" in all the interior details, the TOS style consoles and the plaque included.
So if we accept that as canon, we might as well bunch up the Antares from "Charlie X", the Hermes from "Redemption" and the Norkova from "Passenger" with this ship as the "Federation Antares class".
Okuda admits that this usage doesn't fit with the other two canonical uses of the expression "Antares class" - probably these should be considered "Alien Antares classes". Perhaps Bajorans spell it "Am'taeras" and Romulans "N'taaris", and the shared pronunciation is a coincidence?
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
Or perhpas it's like Masao's Bison-class (it IS the Bison-class I'm thinking of, right?) where no 2 units were ever identical.
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Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :
Geez, don't pull my poor ships into this! The belief that they were never identical was just an advertizing boast by the maker to emphasize that the ships could be customized on demand. The basic hull components were used in all ships but could be added or subtracted to make ship of different of different lengths. Maybe I should have named the class "Antares" just for fun?
------------------ When you're in the Sol system, come visit the Starfleet Museum
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Well I guess seeing as the same position that had "Starship Class" on the Enterprise says "Antares Class" on the Xhosa... means that Antares class isn't like Constitution Class like the Enterprise was - its a whole sort of superclass... that may apply to Cargo vessels!?!
Andrew
------------------ "I threw bitter tears at the ocean But all that came back was the tide..." 'I Will Not Forget You' Sarah McLachlan
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
That's not a bad idea. Perhaps, in the pre-to-early Federation era, freighters were refered to based on their range. Hence, an Antares class could get from here to Antares comfortably, and so on. The custom became a tradition, and here we are today; two ships may be Antares "class", and that designation might say something quite meaningful about their capabilities, without having anything to do with who built the vessel.
Or to look at the plaque issue from the opposite angle: if the Xhosa wasn't Starfleet surplus but a dedicated civilian ship, then should we take this type of plaque as denoting civilian construction? Perhaps the Enterprise was contracted out to a civilian manufacturer who slapped "Starship class" on her without consulting Starfleet?
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Wouldn't the dedication plaque have been altered when Starfleet came onboard? Isn't the plaque brought on when the ship is christened?
------------------ "I threw bitter tears at the ocean But all that came back was the tide..." 'I Will Not Forget You' Sarah McLachlan
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
quote:: the Xhosa apparently had a dedication plaque, done in the TOS style.
Perhaps the transition from using names like "starship class", "freighter class", &c. took place after the construction of the E-nil (hence, it got "starship class"), but before the construction of the Xhosa (hence, it got a "real" name, i.e. "Antares class").
------------------ "You're basically killing each other to see who's got the better imaginary friend." -Yasir Arafat on religious wars
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
On the subject of ships of the same class which look different from each other...what about the Enterprise- nil and the Enterprise-A? They look very different, but are both classified as Constitution class.
Here's my theory. The Antares and the Zhosa were built around the same time, which would explain the Zhosa's interior. Then, the Hermes and Norkova were either built later or were upgraded, but were still referred to as "Antares class." That would also explain the more modern interior of the Norkova and the five-digit registry of the Hermes.
Ships like the Erstwhile might also represent an Antares refit somewhere along the line, but I don't remember what the interior looked like, or even if it was shown at all. The only problem is that the Talarians, enemies of the Federation, were also using an Antares class freighter. Maybe they stole it and repainted & reregistered it during the war.
Anyway, at least this proves that Chakotay's raider wasn't an Antares class, which I always thought was wrong.
------------------ Homer: "I'm not normally a praying man, but if you're up there, please save me, Superman!"
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Maybe Chakotay's radier was an 'Antares Class' but not Superclass Antares... which is reserved for Cargo-type vessels?? OR
Maybe once again those ships that are the raiders were originally not "Starships" but "Antares" meaning they were used for Cargo purposes, first and foremost - only later were they used by the Maquis for tactical strikes. This might fit with the large amount of room for the Maquis crew. This might also explain why the Lantree wasn't an "Antares" but a "Starship" since it was originally built for the role of a "Starship"
------------------ "I threw bitter tears at the ocean But all that came back was the tide..." 'I Will Not Forget You' Sarah McLachlan
