(1) Before I get to nitpicky details, I have to say that the ship is really sharp. I like it, whether it's period-appropriate or not. Nice lines, good proportions, and a great color scheme, like a shiny pewter with gold accents.
(2) The ship is indeed NX-01, an Earth Starfleet ship. The number and name are the only real marking on the hull, and they're done in the good ol' TOS hull font.
(3) The more I see the Enterprise, the less she looks like an Akira. Maybe it's when you have a nice big image and can see that the nacelle pylons definitely sweep upward. There is really only one similarity between the two: the catamaran-style hull. After that, the similarities end.
(4) According to Berman, she has a complement of 70-80 people.
(5) Judging by the (circular) portholes on the primary hull, I believe she has five decks through to the saucer rim... however, there are clearly some portholes on the ceiling of at least deck two, so it makes things a little tricky. The saucer edge is apparently an "inverted" angle, like the Excelsior, rather than like the TOS ship.
(6) TOS-style golden dish on the front, even including the little prong in the middle. The dish makes a little notch in the front of the hull, creating another superficial Akira similarity. Oh, and the saucer is circular, though with the dish and whatever greebles at the rear, it's not a complete circle.
(7) Approximately where film-era phasers would be, port and starboard, there appear to be hatches, almost like shuttle doors. Sine the scale is unclear, they may be two small for shuttles and used as EVA hatches.
(8) The black strips on the sides are TOS pilot-style markings, with running lights in the middle. Another nice continuity touch.
(9) The nacelles have those "handrail" intercooler assemblies, as on the TOS ship. The bussards are basically like rounded versions of those on the Enterprise-E, only a nice dark red instead of almost pinkish. Oh, and the aft end rounds out, it's not two-pronged as some images would suggest.
(10) The "rollbar pod" is probably not a weapons pod on the Enterprise, though its function is unknown. There is a blue light on top that sorta resembles the impulse deflection crystal of the film era, but it's pretty small. Could be an outboard reactor.
(11) The details on the rear saucer, outboard from the catamaran-hull, are presumably the impulse engines. They are pretty nondescript, featureless and gray... but they are proportionally larger than those of later ships, which makes sense.
(12) I'm really curious as to what the lower half is going to look like. It probably won't be similar to the Akira, if only because of the golden dish at the front. The ship is really not very "smooth" overall, so I can't picture the curvyness down there, either. I'm thinking basically a flattened version of the bottom of the TOS ship's primary hull, but that's speculation.
(13) Wild guess at the Enterprise's length, based on portholes and the bridge: 500', about half of the TOS ship.
That's all I have to say about it for now. Too bad I haven't bought a new scanner...
-=Ryan McReynolds=-
[ July 09, 2001: Message edited by: Ryan McReynolds ]
One thing that I do like: by this picture, there are no banners or pendants on the hull. It seems that the only markings on the hull are the name, registry, and piloting lines on the edges of the saucer. Kinda neat.
There's a little bit of blue light above it.... perhaps a nav deflector stacked on top of it?quote:
Originally posted by The_Tom:
I'm thinking landing pads for those two hatches on the saucer. The markings on them suggests as much. But in the traditional Akira-shuttlebay location there also appear to be doors, so *shrug*
I'm not sure about landing pads, though the markings do look that way. They seem to be doors, and it's hard for doors to open with something sitting on them. 
quote:
Nacelle angle is quite steep... Probably greater than 45. That ought to put them way the hell away from being Akira-ish.
Indeed. Actually, isn't there a FASA ship with a similar nacelle arrangement?
quote:
Looking closely at the bridge module, is that a turboshaft to port?
First thing that came to mind.
-=Ryan McReynolds=-
[ July 09, 2001: Message edited by: Ryan McReynolds ]
And as for the saucer doors, I was thinking they could work a bit like the DS9 runabout pads, except the pad would pop up again to fill in the hole when the shuttle had landed and taxiied off it into the bowels of the ship.
[ July 09, 2001: Message edited by: The_Tom ]
quote:
Originally posted by Bernd:
Otherwise he kept even tiny details like those strange hatches in the pylons (which are really exactly the same).
Other than those hatches, I see no "tiny details" that Eaves took from the Akira. I maintain that the only similarity between the two ships is the fact that they both have a catamaran hull. All other common features are common to many Starfleet vessels. For that matter, even the catamaran is not very Akira-esque. Where the Akira has gently curved, flowing lines on the booms, the Enterprise has what looks like two cylindrical shapes, almost like two missiles embedded in the primary hull. Notice how, after pinching inward a little, the lines are all straight. Compare to the Akira.
The similarities are no greater than between, say, Voyager and the Enterprise-A, two ships also seperated by a century. Consider: Voyager and the Enterprise-A have similar arrangements, with a primary hull, a secondary hull, and two nacelles. The Akira class and the Enterprise have similar arrangements in the top view only, with a primary hull, catamaran setup, a pod, and two nacelles. In the side view, they are dramatically different.
Some other blatant differences between the Enterprise and the Akira class (not counting hull plates and cosmetics):
What this comes down to is, I'm not saying that John Eaves didn't copy the Akira. He did. What I'm saying is that every other titular starship has copied the TOS Enterprise to the same extent, and nobody complained. It seemed perfectly acceptable to have essentially the same shape every time, with proportions and details changed. Supporting starships did the same thing, as with the Daedalus/Olympic classes, and the Miranda/Nebula classes. Now, along comes Enterprise, with an Akira-like arrangement, and everyone reacts differntly. Why is it suddently no longer acceptable for there to be a familial lineage between starships of differnt eras? Especially when one considers the glaring differences between the two, like the nacelle orientation...
I submit that most of the same objections would be made by the parties involved regardless of how the ship ended up looking. If it was cylindrical, people would say John upsized the Phoenix. If it was TOS-ish, people would say he copied the TOS Enterprise without regressing it enough. The fact that the ship superficially resembles, from one angle, a formerly "new" design only makes those objections more vehement.
-=Ryan McReynolds=-
[ July 09, 2001: Message edited by: Ryan McReynolds ]
Mark
This is the Loknar Class starship, designed by FASA I believe. It just happens to bear a bit of a resemblence to the side view I drew.
I personally think the new Enterprise looks more akin to the Akyazi then the Loknar though...
[ July 09, 2001: Message edited by: The359 ]
They probably would have been better off if they stuck to looking like the constitution or daedeulus class...or even the botany bay---hey its the right era.
But, whatever i'm going into the new series having already cleared my mind of everything from TOS---just pretend TOS never happened and you be fine integrating this new show.
It maybe an absolute beauty of a ship, but it does not fit in with what one would 'perceive' a 22nd century, pre-Federation starship to look like. I had really hoped this Akira connection was to be an exaggeration. But now I see it is basically the Akira shape with bunch of stuff added to give it the impression of having some pre-TOS themes.
The only solution die-hards like me may come up with is that 200 years later they commissioned the Akira Class as a kind of homage to this first Enterprise Class. That I could accept.
For this to be accepted though, I want to see other class ships from this time period that exhibit a more familar design lineage, such as the Daedalus and pseudo-Constitutions etc.
All in all, I must admit it's a cool-looking ship, but would be better for post-Dominion War show rather than a pre-TOS prequel.
I still stand by my opinion that this is a good design that fits into the scheme of Trek history without the need for ignoring The Original Series. This design so much more than just simply slapping TOS era nacelles on the Akira class starship. This picture has a rustic and semi-primitive appearance to it. I like it.
quote:
Originally posted by TheF0rce:
But, whatever i'm going into the new series having already cleared my mind of everything from TOS---just pretend TOS never happened and you be fine integrating this new show.
Um... I hope you meant that as a joke?
quote:
Originally psoted by TheF0rce:
All the details on this ship makes the original TOS enterprise looks like a cheap model{which is what it was]
Strange, I find that the details make this ship look more primitive and less refined than the smoothness of TOS-era perfection.
quote:
They probably would have been better off if they stuck to looking like the constitution or daedeulus class...or even the botany bay---hey its the right era.
No, it's 150 years too late to be a DY-100. Spock said, in "Space Seed," that the last DY-100 was launched in the 1990s.
quote:
But, whatever i'm going into the new series having already cleared my mind of everything from TOS---just pretend TOS never happened and you be fine integrating this new show.
Or, like me, you can just happily integrate this show into the timeline without difficulty, since (so far) it violates no continuity.
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Admiral:
It maybe an absolute beauty of a ship, but it does not fit in with what one would 'perceive' a 22nd century, pre-Federation starship to look like.
You mean, it does not fit in with what you would perceive a twenty-second century, pre-Federation starship to look like. Although I have issues with some of the design, it fits rather well into my ideas about what a twenty-second century starship would look like. Speak for yourself.
quote:
I had really hoped this Akira connection was to be an exaggeration. But now I see it is basically the Akira shape with bunch of stuff added to give it the impression of having some pre-TOS themes.
The Enterprise-A, -B, -D, -E, and Voyager are basically the Constitution shape with a bunch of stuff added on to give them the impression of having some post-TOS themes. I still don't get why everybody thinks a lineage along the primary/secondary/nacelles theme is okay while a lineage along the primary/catamaran/nacelles theme is somehow not.
quote:
The only solution die-hards like me may come up with is that 200 years later they commissioned the Akira Class as a kind of homage to this first Enterprise Class. That I could accept.
And that's quite obviously what happened, "in character," at least. Or (and I'm simplifying here for the sake of example), there are three basic planforms a starship works well in, the "Akira," the "Miranda," and the "Constitution." There are countless derivatives of the "Constitution," quite a few "Mirandas," and now two "Akiras." For that matter, other than the catamran, the ship isn't and "Akira," since the nacelles fit the "Constitution" planform!
quote:
For this to be accepted though, I want to see other class ships from this time period that exhibit a more familar design lineage, such as the Daedalus and pseudo-Constitutions etc.
Personally, I'd like to see the Daedalus done up with Enterprise-style hull plating and coloration.
quote:
Originally posted by Siegfried:
Well, the heavy aztecking could be the result that this is an artist's conception of the model. I have one of the Enterprise-D and it's heavily aztecked as well. I'd bet the filming miniature is a bit smoother.
There is no filming miniature. Enterprise is Star Trek's first all-CGI lead ship. I think it's a fair bet that we're looking at the final mesh and textures.
-=Ryan McReynolds=-
However, I'm sure we'll all get over it.
Of course, I'm not sure it makes sense to shine a spot light on your defensive systems...
OOh! I just noticed. There appear to be blue glowies on the sides of the nacelles too. they look like rings wrapped around the nacelle that run most of it's length.
What's really getting to me is that there are people like Ryan taking the time to post well-thought responses to the points being raised by the people who are trashing the new series. And what does his hard work get him? It gets him a post like your's where you launch into a diatribe against the producers and say that they're giving all of us the middle finger. Get over your bad self.
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Admiral:
No Ryan, this is in basic terms a ripoff of an Akira Class starship.
Please read my thread, "Enterprise/Akira" and feel free to comment on the ways in which the Enterprise rips off the Akira. I think I go through every significant design element over there. It's very easy to say "The Enterprise is a ripoff of the Akira" without actually saying how it is a ripoff.
-=Ryan McReynolds=-
[ July 10, 2001: Message edited by: Ryan McReynolds ]
quote:
Originally posted by TheF0rce:
All the details on this ship makes the original TOS enterprise looks like a cheap model{which is what it was]They probably would have been better off if they stuck to looking like the constitution or daedeulus class...or even the botany bay---hey its the right era.
But, whatever i'm going into the new series having already cleared my mind of everything from TOS---just pretend TOS never happened and you be fine integrating this new show.
You better be kidding with that. TOS was the one that started this whole universe that we all love. We can't just ignore it because damn Rick and Brannon seem to want to. About that cheap model comment. That was no cheap model when it was made. You have to remember that back then TOS was using the some of the best special effects.
[ July 10, 2001: Message edited by: USSdefiant ]
I said this in another post/thread, and I'll repeat it here: What if they used the hull of the Galaxy Class and stuck a couple of Phoenix nacelles on it. Would eveyone then say, "hey, it's fine, it fits in okay with the 22nd century?" Surely there'd be a similar uproar....
Seigfried: "..What we have seen in Star Trek is NOT a representative sample of the Trek universe.."
?? What do you mean exactly by that??
Don't get me worng, a little while a ago I was defending 'Enterprise', and advocating that people at least give it a chance. My complaint here Seigfried, is that certain properties of Star Trek (i hate to say this word) 'canon', have been compromised. My fear is that it may get worse, and end up devaluing TOS, and the rest of the 'time-line' that is to follow.
If you have a problem with my personal opinion Seigfried, which obviously you seem to have, then I am perfectly happy and relaxed about it, for we all have our opinions. This is one such function in a forum. We discuss and debate things. But I am entitled to offer constructive critisism if I see fit. I have not been crude, vulger, or have launched into any personal attacks on any other forum member. So please do not attack me for airing my concerns, disappointments or opinions.
This is an invalid argument. The hull of the Enterprise is very different from the Akira's, especially as far as the details go. If you maintain that they're the same, few people will regard your statements as rational.
It is not your opinions that are my concern, Red Admiral. You have the right to your opinions, I have the right to mine. This forum is serving as a means to aired our differences. But, you do not seem to be reading anything other than what you and the people who hate the new ship are writing. You keep posting on and on about Starfleet in this new series. I and other have explained that canonically, Starfleet was never said to have come into existence in 2161. On top of that, this series could focus on the almost exclusively human Earth Starfleet that later is modified extensively to be the Federation Starfleet. Add to that, in several of your posts you down to the argument that Berman and Braga are not going to be happy until The Original Series is completely erased and Star Trek is a mere shadow of what it once was. You have no basis for your claims, and yet you are making this a prime reason for supporting your statements. THAT is what is bugging me.
I never said that or implied it, nor do I believe it one iota. My concerns are based on carelessness on their part in trying to maintain, FAITHFULLY what Roddenberry started. A wonderful job was done with DS9 and to a lesser extent Voyager in upholding the ideologogy and original vision. Yes it remains to be seen what sort of job they do with it overall. Okay, call me a bit of a pessimist and a worrier, I'll agree with you! Lol.
But don't make sweeping statements about me and my standpoints on just about everything I say. I believe the only things I've posted on this particular subject is A) I don't the Akira - am I in the minority here, no. B) I don't have complete trust and faith in Braga and Berman, and C) a couple of gripes about certain facts like Qo'Nos in 4 days which many have also gone on about.
And I read every post with interest as well. But I just do not agree with those that defend the Akiraprise when saying the nacelles are a bit smaller than the Akira, the deflector dish is in another place, blah blah. To be frank, so what. As Treknophyle says in his thread, us fanboys loved the Akira, so they just used it for the Enterprise because of its popularity. It was just damn lazy that no serious creative thought was given to what sort of shape and general design theme would be sensible and consistent.
[ July 10, 2001: Message edited by: The Red Admiral ]
You never know Seigfried, If I build it and have a play, I may end up liking it!!
quote:
Originally posted by Ryan McReynolds:
Strange, I find that the details make this ship look more primitive and less refined than the smoothness of TOS-era perfection.
Amen! Now that we can see it up close it's very similar to what I was imagining. Unlike the smooth lines of the E-nil or Excelsior, or the curvaceous lines of the E-D, it's clunkly and greebly. Compare the look against some of those in the Spaceflight Chronology - plates, hatches, seams, grooves, widgets, and just a hint of what's to come.
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Admiral:
I said this in another post/thread, and I'll repeat it here: What if they used the hull of the Galaxy Class and stuck a couple of Phoenix nacelles on it. Would eveyone then say, "hey, it's fine, it fits in okay with the 22nd century?" Surely there'd be a similar uproar....
If they took a (TOS-era) Constitution-class saucer, glued some Constitution-class nacelles on short pylons below the saucer, then plunked a Constitution-esque secondary hull directly below the saucer, would you claim they were ripping off the Nebula-class and that it only belongs in the 23rd Century?
IMHO, it would be perfectly valid to expect an Ambassador-tech Nebula-style ship, an Excelsior-tech Nebula-style ship (e.g. the Curry), or a Constitution-tech Nebula-style ship.
How about a pre-Constitution-tech Nebula-style ship?
Okay, then how about a pre-Constitution-tech Akira-style ship?
Even if the NX-01 closely resembled the overall structure of the Akira (which it's clear now it doesn't, except for the catamaran), it would be perfectly acceptable - IMHO - as long as the details matched the era.
Copying the titular starship? Copying a theme or a format is one thing; copying a design is another.
A plane with a cockpit, fuselage, two wings, a rudder and two elevators. That's a theme. A car that is a box with four wheels on each side. That's a theme.
But a BMW M5 in the sixties is another, or an F16 in the fifties.
Ships in the 24th century are only loosely based from the TOS ship. They only follow a general theme. The Akira itself is based on the Miranda theme, which in turn can be loosely based on the Ptolemy class theme by Franz Josef.
The Constitution A looks more different from the original Constitution than this ship is to the Akira.
I don't care if it looks cool or not. The originality is the issue. The survival of this series is not about being cool or not, but whether they can be original. Apparently this is so lacking---more proof to the creative bankuptcy of the Berman-Braga team. If they are trying to win over you by being "cool", they are trying to win over you on a more debased instinct since they know they can't win over you on your higher brain functions by being truly creative.
[ July 10, 2001: Message edited by: crobato ]
It is so incredible how you can make a rhetorical spin on it---"don't judge it until you see the bottom." Aw Pleez. A saucer is a saucer. What do you expect?
It still looks too advanced for god's sakes. Even the changes in the Enterprise saucer section that differs from the Akira, such as the chin gap, harks to ships like the Steamrunner, another Jaeger design. I wonder how ILM and Alex Jaeger is feeling about this right now.
quote:
Originally posted by Wes1701E:
Well, in YOUR OPINION it looks too advanced, those who like the design will continue to comment on it.
Have you checked the Internet lately, across message boards all over? It is certainly not just my opinion, but a lot of people everywhere.
You have a fanbase that is already shrinking, and TPTB wants to alienate a large portion of that too? I mean, is TPTB really that bent on a course for self destruction?
Close. How about: "Remember that TOS hasn't happened YET".
The more I look at NX-01 - the more I can see it as an earlier state-of-art than 1701.
Also - the TV Guide Pic - I'm not so sure this IS a pic. Looks more like a conceptural painting. So the actual model (CGI) may be cleaner/less cluttered.
It's not like the Akira is the first thing EVER to use a catamaran hull. The Akira is nothing more then a rip-off of the P-38 Lightening! So that just shot your originality idea to hell.
We already know the side view of the Enterprise is a helluva lot different then the Akira. Heck, I bet the bottom view looks nothing like the Akira either.
The Saber looks a lot like the Miranda from the side. Are they the same from the top? Heck no...not even close.
"About that cheap model comment [referring to the NCC-1701]. That was no cheap model when it was made. You have to remember that back then TOS was using the some of the best special effects."
Is still doesn't change the fact that today, it looks cheap. Sorry, but that's the march of time. Look at TNG season 1. The space scenes (including the Enterprise) don't look anywhere near as nice as in DS9 or Voyager (even in later TNG, the Enterprise looks a lot better).
