After reading posts for sometime now (but I couldn't make it through all 50-odd pages), I was wondering if you could answer some questions that I might have, concerning the Enterprise-C and Ambassador class vessels in general.
Firstly, does anyone have any stills, etc. of the Enterprise-C bridge as seen in Yesterday's Enterprise? I have the diagram issued out in the Star Trek magazine, but what I'm really looking for is the LCARS design used on the computer panels and the coloring.
Also, I'm wondering if any of you have ideas about how an engine room on a vessel of that class would be layed out.
Any response here would be great. I can also be reached at [email protected]
The whole ship seems to have an art deco feel so I'd take that into consideration when thinking about room design. You're probably not going to find the plushly carpeted, well lit rooms like you do an a Galaxy Class. I'd say metal deck plating with carpet here and there.
But like I said, there's absolutely nothign official on this area of that ship.
She doesn't have any of the characteristics I associate with art deco. I mean, the grill of the neck could be on anything from deco to moderne. None of the lines or detailing on the rest of the ship suggest deco to me. No spirals, no zigzags, no sweeping curves. The D is more deco than the C...and even she ain't really there either.
You want deco...watch Flash Gordon from 1980...THAT'S wall to wall deco.
quote:
Originally posted by Azakaze:
but what I'm really looking for is the LCARS design used on the computer panels
There are a few displays in the Continuing Mission book. Unfortunately I don't have this book. Just one scan:
display
sigh
*vows never to conjecture about anything again*
[ July 23, 2001: Message edited by: Aban Rune ]
But seriously, its not gonna be too different from the 1701-A or 1701-D because they both used the same engine room in the movies, so a transition between them would look exactly like them. Except with different carpeting and lighting of course
The Enterprise-A had some major reconstructive surgery performed on her. Other than a new bridge module being snapped on, the corridors got a major overhaul as well. They weren't just blatantly the Enterprise-D corridor sets. I can't remember, but didn't the transporter room also have some cosmetic changes between The Final Frontier and The Undiscovered Country? I know both featured the Enterprise-D set, but I want to say that they differed a bit.
Other than that, I'd speculate that the difference between ST5 and ST6 interiors was simply due to somebody getting fed up with all the decorative panels and carpets blocking service access to the ailing components, and ripped them all off, revealing the original bulkheads (which were of very similar styles in ST2-3 and ST6, actually).
Or then the carpeting was only there on the corridors reserved for VIP use - including the observation lounge with the subspace transmitter, and, for some weird reason, the corridors outside the brig. The rest of the ship might have looked like it did in ST6.
Timo Saloniemi
The engineering area of an Ambassador class ship has perhaps never been seen, but it has been described in the "New Frontier" novels which used to rotate around an Ambassador (although a putative post-Wolf 359 refit specimen). Now that ship is dust and the hero is flying around in a Galaxy class vessel, though, so the "New Frontier" comics are unlikely to show us how the room would have looked like. The single comic out so far, "Double Time", showed us a transporter room and a bridge done tastefully in E-C style yet with suitable alterations to reflect the refit and the fact that one of the characters would have objected to having stairs on the bridge...
Timo Saloniemi
I hope they edited them out for the special edition. ;o)
I especially like how they still had Next Generation door signs on all the doors in the corridors.
Okuda was too busy to notice that when he was having the 'Deck 52' door sign made? Or maybe the Enterprise-A's Next Generation style corridors were all located on Deck 24-52 (which are all located at the highest point on the ship at the top of the turbo shaft based on the signs numbers getting higher as they went up)
That's a pretty tall ship..
[ September 11, 2001: Message edited by: CaptainMike ]
Oh...about those turbolifts: seems pretty strange to have triangular shafts with cylindrical lifts. Lot of wasted space there.
Besides, I spent 6 years doing flight simulator maintenance in the Air Force. Engineers NEVER make things easy for the poor suckers who have to fix the equipment.
As to it being a Jefferies tube, I think the dialogue sounds more like they're talking about a corridor network, what with all the directions Scotty gives Kirk to get to the turboshaft. A series of maintenance conduits would be more limited as to where you would be able to go.
For that matter, Kirk's the captain of the bloody ship! How in the hell can he get lost on his own command ? 
This is in the early part of the film, Kirk is talking to Scotty over the intercom about the Klingons going to Nimbus III. Scotty says something to the effect of "We'll beat those Klingons there even if I have to get out and push."
One could also say that Scotty had to spend a greater deal of time off the main engineering room than usual, given that the ship was falling apart from every seam. His little people might have been tending to the warp core while he himself ran from location to location patching together the subsystems with duct tape and self-sealing stembolts.
Personally, I found those supposed Jeffries tubes a very enjoyable and believable part of the E-A interiors, second only to the big shuttlebay set in attractiveness. The TNG-lifted corridors were just plain silly, the lounge nondescript, the holding cell with neon-tube bars not even funny.
The triangular-cross-section vertical turboshaft could have been intended for three simultaneously running lifts, I guess...
Timo Saloniemi
quote:
Personally, I found those supposed Jeffries tubes a very enjoyable and
believable part of the E-A interiors, second only to the big shuttlebay
set in attractiveness.
I wasn't crazy about that set, either. Seemed pretty damned cramped to me, especially compared to what we saw from TOS and TMP. And why store your shuttles in the main landing bay? Isn't that like parking a jetliner on the runway?
quote:
The triangular-cross-section vertical turboshaft could have been
intended for three simultaneously running lifts, I guess...
Sorry, not big enough for multiple turbolift cars, unless she's got single-passenger lifts we haven't seen before (outside of the ones in main engineering, that is).
The real reason for some of he set problems is that the studio wanted the E-A to look like it was part of the evolution towards the E-D.. so they had a lot of beige carpeting and plush interiors, but this really got confusing when Nick Meyer, who is a real naval adventure buff, decided to go with a very attractive 'nuts and bolts' look for he E-A in ST-VI.. same bridge set, except with plate metal floors and the beige trinm and leather pads replaced by grey and Federation blue metal. I think Nick's idea for the look (and the prod. designers like Zimmerman who enacted it) was much better though, and is pretty much the standard when they have gone back to design ships from the E-A, E-B, E-C era
quote:
Originally posted by CaptainMike:
The real reason for some of he set problems is that the studio wanted the E-A to look like it was part of the evolution towards the E-D.. so they had a lot of beige carpeting and plush interiors, but this really got confusing when Nick Meyer, who is a real naval adventure buff, decided to go with a very attractive 'nuts and bolts' look for he E-A in ST-VI.. same bridge set, except with plate metal floors and the beige trinm and leather pads replaced by grey and Federation blue metal. I think Nick's idea for the look (and the prod. designers like Zimmerman who enacted it) was much better though, and is pretty much the standard when they have gone back to design ships from the E-A, E-B, E-C era
I'm rather fond of the theory that there was a hot period in the Federation-Klingon cold war between those movies. It would explain...
(1) The Enterprise-A getting a gunmetal-gray "military" refit from its earlier beige "peaceful exploration" look.
(2) The crew feeling extremely uncomfortable with Klingons aboard the ship in Undiscovered Country after sharing a lighthearted celebration with them in Final Frontier.
(3) The Empire launching the I.K.S. T'Ong, described in "The Emissary" as during a period of war.
Then again, maybe it's standard policy to make their new starships totally useless at first. Remember the E-B?
quote:
Originally posted by Ryan McReynolds:
I'm rather fond of the theory that there was a hot period in the Federation-Klingon cold war between those movies. It would explain...(1) The Enterprise-A getting a gunmetal-gray "military" refit from its earlier beige "peaceful exploration" look.
(2) The crew feeling extremely uncomfortable with Klingons aboard the ship in Undiscovered Country after sharing a lighthearted celebration with them in Final Frontier.
(3) The Empire launching the I.K.S. T'Ong, described in "The Emissary" as during a period of war.
Oh, and...
(4) The Enterprise-A being decommissioned after less than a decade of service. A war could do that to a ship.
quote:
Originally posted by Sol System:
Unless the A was a refit.
Oh, I think it was a refit, too.
Unless Okuda was wrong, and it IS a refit, but of another vessel besides the Yorktown renamed. This would explain why it was quickly decommissioned five years later
[ September 13, 2001: Message edited by: CaptainMike ]
quote:
The ship should never have left spacedock without its major systems
That's my point. The Navy doesn't grant a ship her commission until she passes a pretty damned thorough series of evaluations. Why should Starfleet? Especially when you consider that on a naval vessel, you don't have to worry about how you're going to breathe if the power fails.
This could also tie in to why the E-A was retired so early. If the Excelsiors could not be transwarp superships, then Starfleet might have begun marketing them as Constitution successors. Constitutions had a high public profile, and the names Enterprise and Kirk had an even higher one. The smart move for Starfleet would be to declare all the Constitutions as outdated and insist that they be replaced by the Excelsiors *now*, thus justifying the project already underway.
Naming the first post-transwarp Excelsior the Enterprise and dragging in Kirk to do a PR tour would further help market the idea that these ships were the rightful inheritors of the Constitution fame.
As for the Yorktown theory, that ship's crew was left in mortal danger when we last saw them. Perhaps there wasn't a happy end to the story, and Starfleet towed home a big starship-shaped coffin? The ship could have been renamed to scare away the ghosts in any case, and the need to find something to reward Kirk with provided extra incentive.
And Starfleet probably wasn't all that happy to reward a mutineer, despite the public pressure, so giving him a former deathtrap after a half-hearted refit might have evoked grim smiles on some high-ranking faces...
Timo Saloniemi
The ship's only problem was that it found itself in a film, which neither it nor Starfleet had any say in.
Or perhaps the other ships were sent away because Starfleet wanted no witnesses should the half-finished ship fail? Sure enough, when she first went to warp, she was torn apart: all of the modifications that distinguished her from the Excelsior were sent spinning into space. Just watch the snippet of the ship warping toward the Nexus... Good thing they were able to recover and reattach the pieces without any of the reporters aboard noticing.
Timo Saloniemi
I thought they hadn't installed the warp drive yet.
I noticed another one. In ST.III and ST.VI the Excelsior's nacelles didnt light up, and they kept this for the Excelsior reuses in TNG.'Where No One..' and TNG.'The Child' but then in VGR.'Flashback', supposedly portraying the original Excelsior, the nacelles suddenly glow blue. Except where they used Excelsior ship shots from ST.VI.
But then, Tuvok doesnt remember Valtane not dying and the fact that the Khitomer conference was two months after Praxis, not two hours, so hes just suffering from virus-addled brains.
$Endgame spoil
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$
$
$
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But they cured that in 'Endgame' by getting him home in time before he went completely insane.
ok.. ive wandered far enough off the beaten thread..
The nacelles were lit up while the ship wasnt at warp, in the nebula too i blieve. ill check
Re: USS Yorktown
Maybe Kirk hauled the Yorktown's captain and crew's collective asses out of the fire in some exciting galactic adventure and the Yorkie captain had said that he owed an extreme debt of gratitude to Kirk. Yorkie captain offers his ship to Starfleet and the Feds to repay this debt. Sounds implausible written here, but surely the Big E and her noble crew have had more advenures than have been catalouged in the historical documents.
Maybe the Yorkie crew presented their ship as a present to the Ennie crew for some unknown and noble reason.
So with the original Yorktown nearing retirement anyway, perhaps it was rescued by Starfleet topbrass, overhauled, renamed Enterprise, and given to Kirk to command for a few years until it finally gave up the ghost for good.
And in my mind, the E-A was not the Yorktown disabled by the Probe. just doesnt work.
quote:
I dont like thinking that the probe killed people
Probes don't kill people. Failing life support kills people.
And the Probe might either have done serious system damage (in which case the Excelsior would probably get repair priority - and if she was a candidate for Kirk's crew, then some major time had apparently passed), or then virtually no damage (in which case the Yorktown would be basically in working order, just with the batteries drained and the crew lamentably but neatly dead). It certainly did not blow any traditional holes in the hull, so the repairs were probably very unconventional, and repair time estimates a matter of guesswork.
Timo Saloniemi
excerpts from the Dictionary of American Naval Fighting Ships, about the status and history of vessels:
I picked the Yorktown but found a few who were decommissioned and then recommissioned for what simply amounted to a refit:
CV-10 Yorktown:
quote:
On 21 March 1955, she was placed in commission, in reserve, at the Puget Sound Naval Shipyard where she was to receive extensive modifications-most significantly, an angled flight deck to increase her jet aircraft launching capability. She completed her conversion that fall and, on 14 October, was placed back in full commission.The aircraft carrier resumed normal operations along the west coast soon after recommissioning.
and also the Constitution in an older case about the status of a ship while being worked upon:
quote:
Ordered to Boston, she was placed in ordinary for 6 years, undergoing extensive repair. In May 1821 she was recommissioned, serving as flagship of the Mediterranean Squadron, under Commodore Jacob Jones
quote:
Would there really have been enough time for Starfleet to patch up all the damage, go out, find and haul the Yorktown back to Earth, and slap a new registry on her? The interval can't have been all that long; IIRC, Kirk's uniform still had flag officer trim on it, even though he'd replaced his rank pin
What if they did travel to the A shortly after the trial. Who knows how much time between Kirk and Co. saving the world and standing trial. The Federation President and Starfleet probably came up with Kirk's punishment some time before the trial and made the necessary preparations.
I *can* imagine her going "screw the whales, I get to go to SPACE!", judging by her enthusiasm in her final scene. I just think the writers would have expected her to perform her sacred duty to the utmost, and all that.
Timo Saloniemi
quote:
One thing about the trial is that Gillian Taylor was ready to leave for outer space aboard a science vessel.
And if the science vessel was a maritime vessel?
"Oh there's just one more thing, sir, while I'm thinking of these things..."
quote:
One thing about the trial is that Gillian Taylor was ready to leave for outer space aboard a science vessel.
quote:
And if the science vessel was a maritime vessel?
Then we can be reasonably sure that it was a Ferengi who sold her the tickets. Or, barring the presence of the Ferengi that early in the timeline, perhaps Harry Mudd made it back from planet Mudd? In either case, she should have known better than trust a person who is being "nice" to a blonde from out of town.
Timo Saloniemi
BTW, the graphic novel Debt of Honor depicts the newly demoted Captain and Doctor Taylor chilling on his yacht (a sailing one yes, but i couldnt see the bottom to see if it would fit under his saucer) awaiting the birth of the whale.. um .. pups.
He had to steal the 1701-A (!) to go fight extradimensional predators in the neutral zone, but made it back in time to see the birth and share some Chateau Picard with Gill.
Its, IMO, one of the best comics it spans from the Farragut at Tycho all the way until post-ST:IV and has lots of fun guests along the way. It only got too ambitious by trying to explain Kor's lack of head-ridges. And Kirks old half-Roumlan half Vulcan girlfriend showing up 30 years later with a grown up kid seems a little suspicious for the continuity minded (So they met in 2254.. its 2286 now.. oh, your daughter is 32? my..)
"You're going to your ship, I'm going to mine. Science vessel. I've got 300 years of catchup learning to do."
She never mentions that it's a space ship. Hell, since she's studying whales, it could be a submarine for all we know.
However, the yacht pictured in 'Debt of Honor' couldnt be it, because it is a modern built yacht.
Kirk's schooner was wooden, and Piper stated that the 'y' word wasnt allowed because it was a manned sailing vessel, not a pleasure craft and had no powered engines save for a sealed emergency motor.
The boat in 'Debt' may have been Taylors science ship, since they were using it to follow the whales.
Whales have calves, by the way.
the novelisation of ST:IV had the probe finding the whales conversation a little dull i think.. ill look it up.
did it go on to the Klingon homeworld to see if its old friends that hump-headed whales were still there? 'We killed them.. they were troublesome' 'Do they still sing songs of the great whale hunt?'