At the end of Generations, we have two Sydneys on the wreck of the saucer of the Enterprise-D. They appear to just be shuttles and painted blue. Well, while checking out my new DVD of this scene and going frame by frame, the first shuttle that flies by the screen has a readable registry. At least, sort of...
First, the shuttle's clearly say NCC- at the beginning of this, so we don't have to argue that. The first number that EASILY stands out is the last digit, a 7. The first digit, although blurry, appears to be a 6. Noticing this, it immediatly comes to my attention that these digits coincide with the USS Farragut NCC-60597, which was orbiting the planet at the end. Checking the middle numbers, the 2nd digit is definatly a 0, and the 3rd digit also looks like a 5. The 4th digit is a bit hard to see, but since we've matched 4 of the 5 digits of the Farragut, my assumption is that this is indeed a 9. The shuttle appears to have a name on the back, under the engines, but it could either be the shuttle name or it could just say "Farragut", I can't see it clearly.
Therefore, these are not indendent starships, these are shuttles belonging to the Farragut, although I'd rather call them Runabouts due to their size. Makes sense too, a TNG-era Runabout. Too bad we never saw any besides this.
Another Trek query solved...
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Technically speaking, they weren't Sydneys, because the Sydney is a big starship and not a shuttle. But yes.
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
We could say that the shuttle in "Skin of Evil" was the TNG era equivalent to runabouts - big badass nacelles, door-separated control cabin, big aft window, runs a true interstellar warp-speed errand as opposed to the arguably merely interplanetary errands of the lesser shuttle types... The design would be to Danubes exactly what the early dustbuster phaser is to current type 2 phasers - somewhat bulkier, much more rounded, with less surface detail. Too bad we never see the forward part of the craft from the outside.
OTOH, I'd hate to call the "mini-Sydneys" in "Generations" as actual runabouts, since they lack outriggered warp nacelles. I'm not sure I'd accept the underbelly protrusions as warp engines, either. The only familiar elements there are the Bussard domes, and even those face aft. These could be large sublight barges or low-warp shuttles rather than medium-warp runabouts.
The coloration raises a question: could these be special "diplomatic" craft, to explain the unusual pomp and grandeur of the blue-and-red stripes? The Farragut's equivalent to the Captain's Yacht or something? (And what prompted the modelers to repaint the shuttles in the first place? Did they tear apart the Sydney model and reinstall the big windows, then paint everything over to cover the seams?)
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Caulfield (Member # 521) on :
I�m sorry, The359, but after watching the particular scene in Star Trek Generation, I could not confirm your observation. In my opinion, the second last digit on the hull can not be a 9! After using the zoom-function of my DVD-Player, I�m sure, that number is either 5 or 6.
If this is true, the shuttle cannot be from the USS Farragut (NCC-60597).
Maybe this is a complete new registry and the shuttle has it�s own one, or (and I like this idea) this registry will give us a hint of the registry of one of the remaining starships orbiting the planet!
[ August 01, 2001: Message edited by: Caulfield ]
Posted by Veers (Member # 661) on :
Where did we hear about the USS Valiant NCC-20000? The registry is a bit out of place for the Oberth class. And where did this name pop up, a model or something? Unless have proof that this ship was in fact labeled that in "Generations," I will still say it's name and number is unknown.
Posted by Michael_T (Member # 144) on :
I've always thought that those shuttles were CGI since we saw the Sydney Class in later episodes of DS9. Anyway, for all we know, those shuttles came from the Miranda Class instead of the Farragut. And doesn't the Nebula Class have the same Captain's Yacht as the Galaxy Class?
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
Oh, boy. Here we go again...
The U.S.S. Valiant NCC-20000 was an Oberth studio model that was used by ILM in the film. (This is from the TV show "Movie Magic" or something like that, a documentary about ILM and special effects. The model was shown in the program.) And since there's only one Oberth in the movie that we know of, that is assumed to be the Valiant.
Think you can remember it THIS time, Marshal?
As to the question of the mini-Sydneys, they do seem to be used mainly for executive and diplomatic purposes, (as per STVI) and the blue coloration does seem to convey that feeling, as does the UFP seal painted on the side.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I may be wrong...but I don't think the shuttles in Generations had the UFP symbol on them though...
My guess is that these shuttles are multipurpose craft...some are for cargo...some are for personel, some are for diplomatic missions. The interiors can probably be changed as needed.
Given the fact that we saw them helping to evacuate the wreckage of the Ent. D...it seems likely that they were there to transport the crew or cargo.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote: I may be wrong...but I don't think the shuttles in Generations had the UFP symbol on them though...
thats probably because the "Generations" exec-shuttles are from a starship while the one in STVI is assigned to either Spacedock 1, UFP HQ or perhaps its just a fed-civilian vessle opperating out of earth in general. How ever the callsign "SD103" would suggest its a civilian shuttle attached to the Spacedock facility.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Right, but this thread is about the ones in Generations. MMoM said that the seal on the side suggested diplomatic use...I'm saying that since not all of them have thaton the side, they probably are used for a variety of functions other than just diplomatic transport.
Posted by Veers (Member # 661) on :
Well excuuuuuuse me. I would've known, except all those old threads about the Valiant have been taken out. Anything before "Endgame" is gone, because of the huge upgrade this site had. (Of course, you can't blame anyone that has that little smiley face there, can you?) As for the Sydneys, wasn't the "Hawking" shuttle in that scene? The Encyclopedia says it is, but of a different design than the series. Could it be a Sydney?
Posted by PopMaze (Member # 302) on :
The Hawking was a lengthened Type 6 shuttle that harkens back to the ST5 shuttles. It was seen swinging by about to pick up Picard right after he buried Kirk. It's the very first shuttle we see. The scene in question is at the beginning of Picard's last log entry voiceover.
Posted by The359 (Member # 37) on :
As for the 4th digit, I don't know. It does appear to be more like a 5 or a 6, but for all we know, the "back" of the 9 could be missing because of the motion blur. Look at the front of the Cs in NCC, they vertical part fades out depending on when you pause it.I'd still be a lot easier if it were just a 9, and it fit perfectly with the Farragut.
As for the emblems, the shuttle has a STARFLEET logo on top (white arrowhead with red circle and two trailing red lines). I also noticed immedialy below the registry number are 4 oval holes, most likely windows, but they sit farther back then the ones on the NAR-25820, and also appear smaller.
As for these being independent ships with their own number, highly unlikely, because we would have seen them leaving with the other ships at the end. OK, so if they aren't independent starships, they must be shuttles and are stored in the shuttlebays of 1 of the 3 ships. Well, it can't be Valiant because she's NCC-20000, wrong number. The Miranda is a maybe, but having a Miranda with a registry above 60000 is VERY inpractical. Therefore, they are most likely attached to the Farragut, and should have the same registry.
Posted by Wes1701E (Member # 212) on :
wow i havent seen those pictures before. I like the design!
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote: As for these being independent ships with their own number, highly unlikely, because we would have seen them leaving with the other ships at the end. OK, so if they aren't independent starships, they must be shuttles and are stored in the shuttlebays of 1 of the 3 ships. Well, it can't be Valiant because she's NCC-20000, wrong number. The Miranda is a maybe, but having a Miranda with a registry above 60000 is VERY inpractical. Therefore, they are most likely attached to the Farragut, and should have the same registry.
Let us not forget the minor detail that, if Oberths have a shuttlebay at all, it is a very small one & couldn't possibly hold this thing. Also the Miranda my be physicaly ably to accomodate such a large craft, i dount it would have the facilities to support such a large auxilery vessle. The Nebula-class however most likely has the same cavernous shuttle bay as the Galaxy-Class...who knows, some of these shuttles/transports could have been labeled up as belonging to the Enterprise-D, unless of course they were all the same model.
Posted by The359 (Member # 37) on :
Well, the E-D's shuttlebay doors were closed, probably because there wasn't enough power to open them or something. That, or they just closed the doors after they got the shuttles out...
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
For some reason, I have to point out that that shuttle has a Romulan warp nacelle buried in the middle of it.
Also, tecnically, wasn't the Danube the TNG era shuttle? (It was in Timescape).
The Hawking model always confused me. I read it was a modification of the shuttle from STV. Wasn't the TNG Type-6 shuttle modified from the STV shuttle? Or did they use the other one?
Posted by PopMaze (Member # 302) on :
The way I look at the shuttles is that some could be from the Enterprise. We know the Hawking is one of those shuttles. They were able to open and close the main shuttlebay doors. How else could the Hawking have gotten out without actually damaging or destroying those doors? The model as far as I know was a modificaion of the other ST5 shuttle model made. (two models made for ST5, one modified to type 6 for TNG, other later modified for Generations). And this is OT but even though they said the saucer was unsalvagable, I believe that for Prime Directive reasons, they would have disassembled the saucer bit by bit and removed it completely from the surface. Maybe Picard was in charge of that between the loss of the E-D and the launch and commissioning of E-E.
Posted by Austin Powers (Member # 250) on :
I didn't even see a difference between the ST5 "VIP" (as some people call it) shuttle and the one at the end of Generations. Where's the difference?
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Apparently only in the paint job.
The design would otherwise nicely fit either of the eras, but the ramscoop domes under the hull look weird in a Kirk-era craft. Fortunately, we didn't get to see them in ST6, so we can pretend the underside of that craft was more consistent with the era (that is, the only large non-white parts would be the blue warp grilles and the yellowish impulse exhausts). Red domes just don't belong to that era, no matter what their function.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Veers (Member # 661) on :
Actually, PopMaze, the planet where the saucer crashed (Veridian III) was uninhabited, so they could just leave it there since no one could see it. That is, unless some alien plant or something fixes it and runs amok in the galaxy with it.
Posted by pIn'a' Sov (Member # 293) on :
Actually Veers, I side with Pop maze on this. Since the other planet in the system was inhabited, it would create problems in the future if they came there in primitive spacecrafts and found an advanced starship there.
Posted by Michael_T (Member # 144) on :
You forget that the Federation likes to recycle... I'm sure that Worf brought his sonic shower from his quarters on the Enterprise-D to DS9.
Posted by Wes1701E (Member # 212) on :
I have an idea, what if the Faragut's expansion bay was actually fitted to be a large bay? Y'know, for rescue ops.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
That would be a good idea, if I could figure out what you're talking about. Expansion bay? Rescue Bay? Hudson Bay?
Posted by The359 (Member # 37) on :
I think he means the pod on the Farragut. It's always been believered they have been interchangeable for different missions, and there may be a pod for "rescue missions", with large shuttlebays and medical facilities, as well as room to fit all the people (most likely in "barrack" style rooms with multiple beds).
The only problem I see with this is the timeit'd take for the Farragut to change the pod. It didn't seem like there was even a day gone by that the Enterprise-D crew sat there waiting for rescue. Farragut would have to have been close-by to get there, and wouldn't have time to change pods.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Actually there is a difference between the Hawking in generations & the STV shuttle other than the markings. The STV version has these long protrusions near the rear end of the ship, these are not on the Hawking, also the hawking has 3 windows, the STV shuttle has only 1.
Posted by USS Vanguard (Member # 130) on :
Didn't the hawking have enterprise type nacelles?
Posted by targetemployee (Member # 217) on :
I see the Hawking NCC-1701-D/15 as an older shuttlecraft. She may have been used on ships of the early to mid 24th century. Prior to 2371, this shuttle was given to the USS Enterprise NCC-1701-D for use.
Another way of viewing her-she is an intermediate step between the classless shuttles of the second USS Enterprise NCC-1701-A and the class 6 of the 2360's.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
"Didn't the hawking have enterprise type nacelles?"
Er, what are Enterprise-type nacelles? If you mean "refit-consitution nacelles" (hnnng), then, er, it quite obviously does (or it's closer to them than any other design).
"Red domes just don't belong to that era, no matter what their function."
Red domes don't belong on Kirk-era ships? Phew. Good thing no-one ever saw the Enterprise-nil then, eh? (Yeah, I know, you probably meant movie-era. But I'm in a nitpicking kind of mood today.)
Posted by The359 (Member # 37) on :
Watching the Hawking again, it's nacelles are in fact identical to the ones in STV. There are no bussard collectors or anything, and they are just rectangular shaped.
On the discussion of Sydneys, watched "Trials And Tribble-ations" today, and the upside-down Sydney that carries the temporal agents has it's name on the back. It wasn't clear enough to read the name, but the name is definatly just 4 letters. This fits perfectly with the USS Nash we saw labeled. Of course, we have no clue what the registry reads (hopefully not NCC-2010 or NCC-2010-B!)
Posted by USS Vanguard (Member # 130) on :
A) i meant galaxy not enterprise type nacelles B) I must be thinking about the type 7 (see encyclopedia)
Posted by Veers (Member # 661) on :
It may be on the model, but I hate the "NCC-2010" and "NCC-2010-B" registries. That numbering scheme, I say, is only for the Enetrprise!
Posted by The359 (Member # 37) on :
Well, even if it didn't belong to Enterprise, NCC-2010 belongs to the USS Jenolan.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Maybe it's in tribute to the 'lost' Jenolen which was the ship that Montogomery "Scotty" Scott disappeared on? And since Kirk died on the E-B... there was already going to be a 'tribute' to that ship... the E-C.
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Seems a rather morbid way of "honoring" either Scott or the ship, though.
"..And so we register this new vessel to show how much we appreciate the older vessel that so valiantly disappeared with Captain Scott on board, so that we never saw him again..."
"..And so we like to commemorate our fallen hero by perpetuating the registry of the ship that sailed him to his doom..."
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Veers: I didn't mean to be pissy way back there on page 1. I was just trying to explain what I meant.
I would agree that these large shuttles had to have come from the Farragut, The other two ships would be too small.
As for the Runabout issue. It's very clear that Danubes are independant starships. They have names and unique registries. However, it's also clear that they seem to always be attached to something. A starbase or a starship. I've always been of the mindset that starbases and larger starships carry runabouts as large auxilary crafts though they are in fact starships in themselves.
I guess the same could be true for these large shuttles, but the lack of obvious warp nacelles seems to preclude that (and, no, sticking pieces of galaxy class nacelles on the model doesn't automatically make them nacelles )
Posted by Veers (Member # 661) on :
No, no, I wasn't talking to you, I was talking to the MMoM. It was a late response to the "Valiant" thing.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
