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Posted by nx001a (Member # 291) on :
 
It has recently been bought to my attention that a nova class ship should not have type-X phasers. Since it is a science vessel with limited defensive systems i was wondering what other people think the armaments should be? How about 2 torpedo launchers and six type VIII phaser emitters?
 
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
 
The basic Nova class, as seen in episode "Equinox", has the following visible weapons: 11 phaser strips and 2 forward torpedo tubes. There are also aft torpedo tubes, since we see the ship firing aft torpedoes. These aft tubes just happen to be invisible. The torps happen to be coming from the middle of the ship's spine, so presumably they are behind that dark hatch there, halfway between the shuttlebay and the impulse engines.

(Curiously enough, the MSD seen in the episode places the shuttlebay behind this middle hatch, but there are other errors in the MSD as well, like the placement of the forward torpedo tubes. The MSD is probably best forgotten.)

The eleven phaser strips need not all be of the same type - perhaps the long primary stripes are of a higher type than the short ones? The only ship for which we "know" the phaser strip classification is the Galaxy class, with all of her strips of type 10, and even that is not strictly canonical.

I suggest type 8 phasers for the Nova, possibly with the shorter strips being type 7. That sounds "weak" enough in comparison to the Galaxies, and "strong" enough in comparison with shuttles which can carry type 4 or 5. Type 8 might also be what is used onboard the Voyager, for that matter.

Timo Saloniemi
 


Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
 
Endgame spoilers

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And Harry's Nova Class in Endgame is from 20 some years in the future. So perhaps by that time, Nova's have been refitted to perform more militant roles as well. The Rhode ISland obviously had some oompf to take on the Klingons.
 


Posted by The359 (Member # 37) on :
 
The Nova is too small to carry Type-X phasers. They have to be around Type-VII or maybe even Type-VIII.
 
Posted by nx001a (Member # 291) on :
 
Personally i think type VII and VIII phaser are used in the nova class. It cannot have better araments than an intrepid class. I know this is not covered anywhere but the impression i get is that the equinox had much inferior weapons than voyager had.
 
Posted by The359 (Member # 37) on :
 
The Type-# doesn't imply how new or old the phaser is, it implies size or power...

If you want age, then that's where Mk. #s come into play.
 


Posted by Ace (Member # 389) on :
 
Exactly! Which is why a Type II phaser in TOS has the same designation as a Type II phaser in TNG, DS9, and VOY. Of course we have those fanboys who believe the Ent-E has Type XII phasers, but that's whole new argument...
 
Posted by J (Member # 608) on :
 
Uh... it might be noted that type can play a part in age. No ship before the USS Galaxy had Type-X. Which pretty much means that no ship before 2350 had Type-X. --- I also accept that no ship had Type-9 before the USS Ambassador, and no ship had Type-8 before the USS Excelsior. But that's just pure speculation.

Type-X is the most powerful shipboard type, there isn't a more powerful phaser onboard starships [yet...]. This excludes the Sovereign from having Type-12, besides I remember someone [Rick Sternbach?] saying it had Type-X. Type-11 is the most powerful there is so far anyway... only found on planetary defense platforms and stations.
 


Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
 
I always referred to Sovereign arrays & all subsequently refitted ships (including Galaxys) to have Type X-A strips. Still the largest Type X, but sufficiently advanced & uprated enough to qualify for a slight design notational difference.
 
Posted by Michael_T (Member # 144) on :
 
I would think that the Type-x phaser banks would be small enough to be onboard a Nova Class.
 
Posted by Wes1701E (Member # 212) on :
 
Has there ever been a canon source for figuring out which type of arrays are on what? I dont remember them being mentioned or displayed onscreen...
 
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
 
"Type ten phasers" are mentioned in TNG "Conundrum" as being the armament of the E-D. The reference does not make it completely clear if all the phasers on that ship are type 10, or if only the heaviest or the most numerous are.

"Type eight" is mentioned in TNG "Preemptive Strike" as being aboard the Maquis ships, and apparently considered excessively heavy for them. Also, the graphics on the E-B bridge include a diagram of the ship where the phasers are labeled as "type 8". Other diagrams of that type (that is, TOS movie era where labels are often present, not the TNG ones where labels are normally not used) may have other references.

"Type four" is mentioned in TNG "The Outcast" as being installable on "Class six shuttlecraft", or what is known as Type 6 Light Shuttle in the TNG Tech Manual.

"Type three" may or may not have been mentioned in some episode dealing with phaser rifles ("Mind's Eye"?), but type three disruptors were mentioned as handheld weapons in "Generations".

"Type two" and "type one" date back to TOS "Devil in the Dark", where they describe the pistol phaser and the palm-fitting phaser, respectively. They have been reused in TNG, DS9 and VOY dialogue with the same meaning.

Timo Saloniemi
 


Posted by Toadkiller (Member # 425) on :
 
It would seem that we are to believe that "Type" has a relationship to size/power/degree of boom akin to gun size on an old battleship - 12 inch, 16 inch, or whatever.

I'd think there'd be plenty of room for variation among the same "type" over time - a movie era Excelsior may have had the same type as a refitted TNG era one - but with the latter having increased range, reduced waste heat, and better targeting (for example). So higher type = better phaser might not be true, even if higher type = more power output. Different types have probably been developed to serve distinct roles (shuttle guns, light ship guns, heavy ship guns, station guns, planet arrays etc.) so I wouldn't think the number for the best type would continue to climb, at least not quickly.

In particular it seems that the capability to use random frequencies like they do vs. the Borg is a major improvement that would apply to all types.
 


Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
 
Voyager has Type-10s, actually. T'was in a line of dialogue a season or so ago.
 
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
 
That would also fit with Rick's comment about Intrepids being the smallest of the explorers.
 
Posted by Ace (Member # 389) on :
 
I realize he designed the ship, but how exactly can an Intrepid do all the things that an explorer listed in the TNG Tech. Manual has to do? The ship is simply too small (for 24th century needs) and undermanned. The old Connies had a crew of 400. Voyager? Less than half of that number...

At best, I'd say an Intrepid is a heavy scout or a destroyer.

Akira sized vessels would be cruisers. Excelsior, Nebula, and other larger vessels would be explorers. At least, in my opinion.

[ August 31, 2001: Message edited by: Ace ]


 
Posted by The359 (Member # 37) on :
 
In "Relativity", Voyager was called a "Short-Term Explorer". I don't recall there being anything about Voyager having Type-X phasers except from Sternbach.

A Type-X phaser would be first introduced on the Galaxy class, because it's the first starship large enough to handle them.

If you want to talk about a newer version of the same phaser, that's where you use Mark. Just for conjecture, a Type III phaser from TOS may be Mark V, and a Type III phaser from TNG might be Mark XII. The ones from Voyager are Mark XIII, and the ones from DS9/FC are Mark XIV. Every new "generation" of phaser rifle gets a higher Mark numbers, while the Type number remains the same.
 


Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
 
Some time ago, a bunch of us came to, and generally stick to, the notion that a ship's type designation is independent of its size, and furthermore may change over time. For example, when the Excelsiors debuted they were probably classified as battleships, or perhaps even explorers (if what is said of the E-B in the TNG tech manual is true). Now, the Excelsiors are probably described as crusiers or heavy cruisers (I'm ignoring the DS9 manual). Ditto for the Nova-class science vessel seen in "Equinox" and the likely not-science vessel from "Endgame".

Furthermore, designations often vary within the ship's class at the same time - the Lantree, Br!ttain and Saratoga, for one, are transport, science vessel and probably medium cruiser or light explorer respectively, to say nothing of all the apparently combat-equipped Mirandas in DS9. Oberths see the same variety of uses in the TNG era.

So for Voyager, Explorer is hardly out of the realm of possibility for me, given all the stuff it seemed to have for that purpose. Also, the only other example of the Intrepid class we've seen is the USS Bellerophon, which was possibly serving as a diplomatic courier and while she was probably not built for that purpose (just being used as such), I'd imagine that an Intrepid being customized and used exclusively for diplomatic missions would not be impossible.

Mark

[ August 31, 2001: Message edited by: Mark Nguyen ]


 
Posted by Michael_T (Member # 144) on :
 
Mark's right, even though the Galaxy Class was labeled an Explorer, it was also a multipurpose starship. I'm sure Starfleet makes ships that are very versatile. Look at it this way, one mission of the Defiant had it go out to find the Dominion Founders and the next one had the ship chasing a comet.
 
Posted by J (Member # 608) on :
 
While the statement "The Galaxy Class was the first ship large enough to handle Type X" is a half truth the real statement should be:

"The Galaxy Class was the first ship capable of supporting the power generation [and other subsystems] necessary to power Type-X phasers, as well as all other systems which must be maintained at the same time."

Whew, that's a mouthful.
 


Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
 
Does the TNGTM even come close to insinuating that Type-X's were developed specifically for the Galaxy?
 
Posted by Ace (Member # 389) on :
 
Just in case you wanted to know how I feel about ship types...

I don't actually mean that size alone dictates the type of vessel a starship is, but it is a good marker. Remember also that the TNG manual says "while most starships may be adapted for a variety of mission types, the vessel type designations describe their primary purpose."

For a more detailed list of types and how I view them:

There are some more types such as scout and escort, but I think you get the picture. Also, remember than the TNG manual specifically says "the USS Enterprise is classified as an Explorer, the largest starship..."

Some things to think about.

Personally, from what we've seen of Voyager's performance, I would still say she is, at most, a cruiser, unless you can show me how she accomplised a duty only an explorer could do.

Last thing...short-term explorer? Why can't we just call the thing a cruiser?! Why would it be bad? Just because it's not as versatile as the E-D? I thought that was the whole point of using a smaller ship in VOY (to show how they had limitations unlike the E-D). I smell designer ego...

[ August 31, 2001: Message edited by: Ace ]


 
Posted by Ace (Member # 389) on :
 
Well, well, well...

If you're lucky enough to check out the October issue of ST: The Magazine, it has an article about the E-E and how it is equipped with Type XII phaser arrays.


 


Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
 
*hoses thread down with a layer of flame-retardant foam from a can marked "classification debate prevention compound"*

And that Type-XII news sucks ass.
 


Posted by The359 (Member # 37) on :
 
Ah damn....here we go....this oughta be good....

*puts on fire-retarded jelly*
 


Posted by Wes1701E (Member # 212) on :
 
Timo, was that from memory?
 
Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :
 
ST:TM probably just took it off the E-E cutaway poster. I meant to pick up a copy of it today, maybe tomorrow instead.
 
Posted by J (Member # 608) on :
 
Actually I'm not sure anymore... I was quiet certain until I started looking that the TNG TM says the Type X was created for the Galaxy Class Project [if not specifically for the GCS then perhaps one of the GCS era ships?].
 
Posted by Dax (Member # 191) on :
 
If they're an older design, shouldn't the Nebula class have had Type-X phasers before the Galaxys? After all, they've basically got the same saucer and there's certainly no difference in the appearance of their arrays.
 
Posted by Ace (Member # 389) on :
 
It should be noted the Tech. Manual never says the Type X phasers were designed for the GCS Project or any other ship. It simply says the Enterprise-D is outfitted with Type X arrays, the largest for starship use.
 
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
 
"If you're lucky enough to check out the October issue of ST: The Magazine, it has an article about the E-E and how it is equipped with Type XII phaser arrays."

I always thought The Magazine was about as canon as the Fact Files. Or was this article written by Sternbach or someone?
 


Posted by Ace (Member # 389) on :
 
No, it's part of their monthly briefings. They also have the ship's library not seen in the final cut of ST: I.

However, there is a nice interview with Sternbach about his work over the years on Star Trek, and it includes some drawings he made of things he designed such as the Negh'Var and Galor.

One last interesting thing to note about the E-E tactical article is that it shows a picture of the supposed layout of the shields. They extend in a straight line from nacelle to nacelle at the stern instead of curving back in...also, if you look closely at the actual photos of the E-E Main Engineering, notice the diagram of the ship on the "pool table" master systems display console. It's from the original design of the E-E, not the final one (note the Bussard collectors).

[ September 04, 2001: Message edited by: Ace ]


 
Posted by nx001a (Member # 291) on :
 
If the Enterprise D had type X and Enterprise E had type XII what happened to type XI phasers?
 
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
 
They're on the Cobra Mark II.

(If no-one gets that reference, can I get an award?)
 


Posted by nx001a (Member # 291) on :
 
What is the Cobra MK II? Sounds like an ship from Elite?
 
Posted by J (Member # 608) on :
 
Type-XI are/were used on planetary defense platforms and stations. Assumably because they were the only locations that could provide the energy production necessary to power them.

I'd have to see the ST: Magazine myself to believe that Type-12... and if ST: Magazine did have that I would have to ask where they got it from. If it is from that worthless poster then I'm trashing my stack of ST: Magazine.
 


Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
 
Isn't that a teeny, tiny bit over the top?

"Oh my god, this magazine accidently spelt Riker's middle name without a "H"! I must destroy all my copies, and mail bomb the producion company, to protect innocent children from being corrupted by evil."
 


Posted by Toadkiller (Member # 425) on :
 
That would be wrong?

Does anybody know how to get something back out of a mailbox?


 


Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
 
Well, i don't mean to brag, but I have Type XV phasers. They're in a storage unit downtown. I got them off of Admiral Janeway's shuttlecraft.

Hey what's Starfleet going to do with all that future sh*t the silly b*tch brought back with her? Voyager still had Batmobile shields when it got back. Maybe they'll hide them to avoid breaking the temporal Prime D. Or maybe they'll just use them.

They should reclassify Voyager as a Bat-Cruiser or a Bat-Explorer.

Actually i read that Voyager was a Light Cruiser, but that was before the show ever premiered. Explanation given (or inferred by me). The old Constitutions were heavy cruisers, but since Starfleet ships are bigger in general now, they would actually be considered Medium Cruisers, or more simply Cruisers in the face of the Heavy Cruiser quality Excelsiors, which are likewise not big enough to be Explorers by current standards. So Voyager would be smaller crew than a Constitution, so therefore a Light Cruiser. Logical? Well throw logic out the window if it isnt canon.

Hey how come the future Nova didnt need its extra deflector dish?! Maybe Harry doesnt like unnecessary redundancy. Or he's just wistful for the days when ships hid their saucer deflectors like a dirty little secret. (Remember ol' 1701 with the three circles right on the front, or the Galaxy's four window sized deflectors?)
 




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