The caption read "Ds9 with Galaxy class ship docked" - Is that right? I mean, the ship looks a bit weird to me...
(and yes, I know it�s upside down )
[ September 24, 2001: Message edited by: pIn'a' Sov ]
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Looks like a Galaxy (And a heck of a scaling problem. Ah, those were the days.) to me.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
For some reason, it looks like the New Orleans model to me!
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Well, at least they have it docked in the right place...at the connecting neck instead of the rim of the saucer.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
I think it could be a New Orleans! look at the pylons, they don't connect to the secondary hull where they should. Plus the nacelles themselves are too high. Having said that however, I can't see the dorsal "highlighter" pods. Posted by The Red Admiral (Member # 602) on :
Yes it is the Galaxy class, docked at one of the lower pylons -it and the station are just upside down. I mean, look where ops is.
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
the nacelles look pretty far apart to the saucer if its galaxy.. and also the secondary is pretty far forward
..any idea what episode this set-up was used for? All of the scenes with the E-D were at an upper pylon i thought.. was it the Venture, i dont recall seeing if it docked or not
[ September 24, 2001: Message edited by: CaptainMike ]
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Am I seeing things, or do the nacelles look to far back?
Could it be possible that someone either built a replica of the Kyushu, or used one that was hanging around (didn't they build 2 & destroy 1 in the first place? or was that the Melborne...) and slipped it in to a vfx shot? I really do hope so! It might be worth someone going through some ds9 footage & looking out for a galaxy saucer on the lower pylon. As I recall, the galaxies (E-D, Venture, Odyssey) tended to be at the upper pylons, not the lower.
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
Looks like an Ambassador to me.
Of course, I think I do remember a few shots in the 5th seasons on where large number of starfleet ships were present, and there may have been a Galaxy on a lower pylon ...
[ September 24, 2001: Message edited by: Malnurtured Snay ]
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
Nacelles look too far apart to be a Galaxy or an Ambassador, but i suppose Ambassador could be possible.. but if the shape under the saucer (and above the red object) is the secondary hull, the the ship is not tall enough to be an ambassador and has its 2ndary hull very far forward
Posted by Soundwave (Member # 138) on :
Picard: "Damnit ensign, I thought you knew how to fly this ship. You've docked us up-side down!"
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
It sure as hell ain't an Ambassador.
In fact, that damn well may be an NO. Look immediately below the horizontal part of the nacelle pylon and there appears to be the aft tip of the secondary hull visible, quite far removed from the pylons.
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
"Um.. Captain.. there is no 'up' in space"
"Shut up, Wesley"
"Dont tell my son to shut..
"Mom.."
"Shut up, Wesley!"
Posted by Veers (Member # 661) on :
Does anyone know when this pic was taken? If it was during "Emissary," then maybe the producers ut in the Ent-D model they used in the episode and hung it upside down on the pylon for fun. Or, if it is an Ambassador, the Yamaguchi model.
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
Actually, they shoot upside down. Thats why the station is upside down in that picture (i know that its hard to tell, but ops is pointy and the reactors are round and have struts).
Its easier to turn a model upside down and shoot it with the same camera position you shot the up shot from than it is to hover it over the camera...
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
Looking at that second pic, where the ship and station are right-side up, I could swear that it's a New Orleans. If you look at the starboard nacelle (left on pic) -- you notice that there seems to be the bussard collector, and something else between the nacelle and the docking pylon. I think it's one of the weapons pods!
Furthermore, the nacelle pylon that we can see reminds me a lot of the New Orleans pylon from that Kyushu model. It sure ain't a Galaxy pylon... it's too sharp at the angle, where it should be more curved.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
Dude! It's not a frigging New Orleans. The only New Orleans model they ever had now looks like this:
The ship in the pic is a Galaxy.
[ September 24, 2001: Message edited by: The Mighty Monkey of Mim ]
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
...except we don't know for sure that that's the only one. There were two Nebbies made, for instance.
Another possibility... might it have been cobbled together by Legato and co. for the famous lost Wolf 359 footage?
Excellent work, Mike. Might also want to consider marking in the sliver of secondary hull under the nacelle struts, too, another tell-tale New Orleansism. There also could be a Stabilo-marker-pod on the starboard side... just below the starboard nacelle there's a bright strip that seems a little too out-of-place to be the starboard strut.
The evidence certainly seems to be building, guys.
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
Oh, and the DS9 station model is 6 feet in diameter, IIRC. That would make this ship, what, 2 feet long? A little less, perhaps?
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
I think this merits a closer look.
and here with some allignment comparisons.
that looks pretty darn convincing to me.
Posted by The359 (Member # 37) on :
usually helps if I read the second page...
[ September 24, 2001: Message edited by: The359 ]
Posted by The359 (Member # 37) on :
You know...Okuda might be a good person to ask about all of this...
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
I dunno... I imagine this could be news to Mike, as if there was a second New Orleans model he probably would have mentioned it before. Someone really needs to send a gift basket to Rob Legato.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
and a note asking him what the hell else did he build! Posted by phelps (Member # 713) on :
Spaceship models were rarely filmed together with the station, because they tend to be out of scale with DS9, which is six feet wide. The VFX people would film the station and the ship separately, then combine the two elements into a single sequence.
However, when filming DS9, they did attach rough mockups of the ship (usually a piece of white plastic/whatever that only vaguely resembles the starship in question). These are to scale with the station, and serve as reference for where the starship element will go. They are edited out in the end.
The man with a mustache and t-shirt looks like VFX supervisor Gary Hutzel, so this is probably later than "Emissary", where Robert Legato was supervising.
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
itd be great if we just identified a 'white piece of plastic'-class starship. But do the ends of the nacelles look burnt to you?
Posted by Veers (Member # 661) on :
Aw! A historic revelation on the history of Star Trek ships! It looks pretty darn close to the New Orleans... But what was a New Orleans doing docked at DS9? Did they need a ship for the photo, and took a model lying around from the cut Wolf 359 scenes and put it up there? Or was another scene cut that had this shp docking and offloading supplies? Plus, if it were the Ent-D model, why wouldn't it be very detailed?
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
Probably just a background shot for one of the war-arc episodes.
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
Those stand-ins for shooting passes tend to be foamcore POSes, not fully detailed 3D models that very closely resemble a kitbash destroyed years earlier, though.
In any case, whoever's beside the model is kind of irrelevant, as in Legato's day there never would have been any more of an intention to shoot a New Orleans docked to the station than at any other time. I'm just theorizing that the model managed to end up in the Image G (?) studios if Legato & co. built it for the discarded footage of the Borg battle intended for Emissary.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
The port nacelle looks like the front end could be burnt off. It would be consistent w/ the W359 model if it were the starboard nacelle. I thought maybe one of the pictures was left-right flipped, but, unfortunately, that's impossible. The Kyushu's registry is correctly oriented in the model picture, and, in the DS9 picture, that bespectacled gentleman's shirt is correct.
Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :
Good analyses, Mike and Reverend!
You have convinced me that it's not a Galaxy. I just looked at my AMT model from the same angle, and the pylons should be very different and at the rear end of the nacelles, and the nacelles should be lower.
It doesn't seem to be an Ambassador either. While the nacelles would be correct, the saucer shape is very different.
I still think that what seems to be the secondary hull is actually part of the DS9 pylon, though.
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Uh, just to put right what once went wrong...
The damaged ramscoop IS the starboard one, just like in the original model.
This is because the zoom-in everybody has been using IS a flipped picture. Reverend flipped it for our viewing pleasure, back in the first page, and he didn't just flip it upside down - he flipped it leftside right as well. The text on the bespectacled person's T-shirt is in mirror print in Reverend's picture.
So that should help solve why the model was used: it was a pre-existing model in approximately the correct scale for a typical docked Federation ship. The existing Galaxy foamcore (the only saucer-hulled foamcore known to exist at that time) might have been lost after "Emissary", so this off-the-shelf piece served the purpose just as well.
It doesn't tell us what shot the model was used for, exactly, but I suspect it was a stand-in for the shots with a Nebula docked in the lower pylon (first seen in "Second Sight", I think) - that ship would be about the same size as the New Orleans model wrt the station, while the Nebula model itself wouldn't be in scale with the station and wouldn't have an exact foamcore left over from a previous episode. The only other thing that docked on a lower pylon before CGI took over was the Oberth from the pilot, if I'm not mistaken.
Unless the New Orleans model was excessively heavy or otherwise unwieldy compared with the foamcores, I think it might even have been used as the standard Fed stand-in from that shot on, until the dawn of CGI!
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Phelps (Member # 713) on :
And after, since the DS9 station wasn't completely CG-fied until the series finale, though sections of it were.
It's a philosophical revenge of the New Orleans class; make every starship look out of scale with respect to DS9, as a punishment for the unwillingness of producers to make an undamaged model of it. The same cost-awareness that prevented its construction would ultimately become a weapon of retribution.
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
Revenge is a dish best served with maple syrup. 8)
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
or yamok sauce...
and compliments from the master of my favorite website ...
)
