Hey, cool. Where did you get it? And if this is okuda_2.jpg, what is okuda_1.jpg?
It's the same style as the Mariposa computer screen. The ship type is also interesting. The S.S. Buckaroo Banzai was a BBI-993 class vessel.
[ May 27, 2002, 15:25: Message edited by: Spike ]
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
The thing I find most interesting is the "NAR-52" registry.
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
okuda_1.jpg is probably another Okudagram, probably one we've already seen.
Great to see that you've managed to get back onto Flare, Kris.
[ May 27, 2002, 17:30: Message edited by: Topher ]
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
It looks like we have a new prefix. ESS.. Earth Space Ship, I'd guess..
Is this an original or is it some sort of NASA-concept schematic? Or perhaps a 2001/2010 ship(only seen 2001 once, a long time ago)?
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Doesn't look like any NASA study I'd have seen. No prominent rotating section in evidence, either - this isn't exactly a sister ship of the Leonov from 2010. And the engine section looks pretty much like the ones Okuda (Sternbach?) drew for the later 'grams, like the DY-500 schematic. This is probably either an Okuda/Sternbach original, or then a good fake thereof.
The text is compatible with the other "The Royale" Okudagram we know of: the mission description seen up close in "TNG: The Continuing Mission". Gas-core fission powerplant, launch date etc.
There's the obligatory Buckaroo Banzai reference there, too, under "ship type". I guess we can count that as yet another (multi-)letter "class name". Now we have at least the J and Y classes, the DY and NX classes, and the BBI and NAR classes (the latter is used as a class name in the "Up the Long Ladder" list)...
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
Giant hamsterwheels or Ares-like antennae?
Posted by pIn'a' Sov (Member # 293) on :
Hmm, engine as Timo said like the Dy-500 or perhaps a cross between that and the Valiant�s engine. Antennae and solarpanels like the Ares 4. Either these are coincidences, damned good continuity, or just a fake. Btw, is the pic a scan from a magazine? I saw white lines around it when I downloaded the image?
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
This is just something I whipped up - thinking it might go a little way to maybe explain the evolution or the different parts of the Charybdis.
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
Yeah, but it predates the Phoenix. . .
It's not actually all that dissimilar to the Friendship-One probe, really.
Posted by Charles Capps (Member # 9) on :
The As are all wrong in that thing. I'm not convinced it's legit.
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
Also, "registry" is spelled wrong, but that doesn't necessarily indicate that it's fake.
Posted by Alpha Centauri (Member # 338) on :
Cool that we have some new info now.
A question that's been striking me for a while: what the hell is gas-core fission?
Posted by Veers (Member # 661) on :
Reverend--where'd you get the picture?
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
I noticed the "registery" thing, too, but figured it didn't necessarily mean anything. But it did just occur to be that this picture looks like a screenshot, but I don't recall any shot like this in the episode...
Posted by Yakaspat The Trekker (Member # 355) on :
I'm not as concerned about the misspelling as I am about the origin. It can't be a screen grab. Maybe its one of the missing Okuda slides?
Lance TheTrekker's Officer's Bible A Concise Review of the Starfleet www.thetrekker.org Posted by Veers (Member # 661) on :
Reverend --come out, come out, wherever you are... Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
Give the guy a break, it's 2 AM where he is.
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
i see something that makes me think its not real
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
I guess, as long as we're on the subject of errors calling the authenticity into question, there's also the "7.44 x 10E3". You can say "7.44 x 103" or "7.44E3", but combining the two gives you "7.44 x 10103".
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
quote:Originally posted by TSN: I guess, as long as we're on the subject of errors calling the authenticity into question, there's also the "7.44 x 10E3". You can say "7.44 x 103" or "7.44E3", but combining the two gives you "7.44 x 10103".
Yeah, I saw that, too. But, it isn't in meters per second, instead having "NVP" after it, so perhaps it isn't suggesting gawd-awful acceleration. Maybe it's supposed to make sense. :-)
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by Vogon Poet: Yeah, but it predates the Phoenix. . .
It's not actually all that dissimilar to the Friendship-One probe, really.
In design... but that's why I've also included the Valiant as a circled 'cockpit'. They're all pretty standard.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Guardian: It's not the number I'm questioning; it's the notation.
Posted by pIn'a' Sov (Member # 293) on :
I tell you, it�s a scan from a magazine. Wasn�t there an older magaziine, Starlog or something, that published this kind of thing? I think I�ve seen similar 'grams on Spike�s site.
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
see, the thing is, the ones printed in the mags were in black and white (or blue on white actually) as they were negatives. This one is colored how it would have appeared on screen, but the coloring job looks like it was done after a scan with a hue/saturation filter (see the grains on the blue parts that doesnt exist on the yellow parts?). I'd prefer to see originals, rather than ones that were doctored.. if this was in a mag im sure the image processing would be better.... (unless it was ST: The Mag.. lol)
Plus the index number at the top doesnt fit with the number Okuda usually put up there.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
What you see before you is an enhanced image. I did my best to make it clearer, but for the unbelievers among you here is the original.
I can't release too much information at this point, or my anonymous source. The best I can do is to assure you that all will be revealed at a later date.
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
That's fine. I can wait. Posted by Alpha Centauri (Member # 338) on :
Concerning that 'NVP' thing... However it doesn't say so, I think it does denote meters per second. The first Okudagram mentioned the Charybdis to have attained a speed of 12 times the solar escape velocity, which turns out to be 7.44x103 ms-1.
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
IIRC this Okudagram is very similar to the one for the Mariposa.
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
If the NAR 52 is owned by Nasa, this prefix predates even the NX. Do you think it has something to do with later NAR-xxx ships (the Ficus-chart for example) or even the 23rd/24th century civilian NAR-registry ships? Or is it used in a similar way as the NX? A class or type? On the other hand this would mean there were 51 ships before Charybdis was started. Maybe they started assigning NARs to every ship launched by NASA.
And what could NAR mean?
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
National Aerospace Registry seems likely is it started at NASA.. makes you wonder why it continued, unless it was something more like Naval Aeronautic Registry or something (which would concur with much later uses of it)
Posted by J (Member # 608) on :
I'm fairly certain that we've never heard a person from the 21st or 22nd century say their vessel was a "NAR-" etc.
NAR- in my opinion is a catch all designation for any non-Starfleet ship, first assigned to those vessels which were launched prior to the start of the Federation and haven't been heard from since. After this, any vessel where contact could be achieved another registry prefix might have been given [like an NCC for a returning member world's ship]. --- After a while, all the "missing & uncontacted" vessels would have been marked with a NAR- registry [some of these might have been found like the list on the Ficus chart] and they would then started throwing out NAR-s to present day Federation civilian vessels.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
If you look at the enhanced version and indeed the similar Mariposa screen, you can see that it says "UN Registry". Implying a relationship to the United Nations which would presumably become Earth's world government. The actual letters NAR are most likely just a code that like NCC, doesn't actually stand for anything.
[ May 29, 2002, 13:43: Message edited by: Reverend ]
Posted by Veers (Member # 661) on :
I guess it might be real after all...
Posted by Alpha Centauri (Member # 338) on :
I've already noticed that UN thing, and I suspect that NAR might have a connection with the United Nations. After all, if NAR would solely denote any vessel operated by the NASA, I'd wonder why they didn't continue with using OV-registries, which were used for the Space Shuttles in real life.
As for NAR denoting any non-Starfleet vessel in the 24th century, there are numerous other reg prefixes for civilian ships (NFT, NGL, NDT). I'd say that NAR is used in the 24th century exclusively for non-Starfleet ships operated by Terrans. An Okudagram in "Unification" said that the T'Pau was in service of the Vulcan National Merchant Fleet or something like that. Perhaps there are other 'national' fleets as well, including a civilian Earth fleet, with each ship having a NAR registry. BTW, the T'Pau had an NSP-registry, which might point at the Vulcan origin.
Posted by Alpha Centauri (Member # 338) on :
I've cleaned the image up, here it is.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
I was thinking how I assigned those conical structures towards the front 'the m/ar' chamber - actually after looking at the Ares, I reckon they are re-entry vehicles - the Ares has one on it in a similar position.
Andrew
Posted by Jb (Member # 724) on :
Am I the only one who sees a similarity to these ships?
Regards Jb
Posted by darkwing_duck1 (Member # 790) on :
It's quite possible Bernd has the same source as the original poster of this thread (or one as good), and someone did a "clean up" version for him. I don't believe that Bernd would be part of a scam or hoax, from what I've seen of him, if that's what you're implying...if not, then accept MY apologies.
[ May 29, 2002, 18:56: Message edited by: darkwing_duck1 ]
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
I would point out that that EAS link credits the design to someone who, unless I'm quite mistaken, seems to be our very own Reverend, starter of this thread.
Posted by Yakaspat The Trekker (Member # 355) on :
Was this in Starlog? God, I used to save all my issues, I wish I still had them. Could this be from a fact file? What do you think, Bernd?
I personnaly am leaning toward the "real" side of the debate. Either it is real, or it is an AWEFULLY good fake.
That's just my two cents. Reverend, do you have an better quality image, a noncompressed one, that I can use for my site?
Thanks
Yak, aka Lance The Officer's Bible www.thetrekker.org Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
I'd agree with Tim on this one. It seems to me Rev created the design or at least helped to refine it. But it certainly is not Okuda/Paramount created given the nature of the Journal of Applied Technology website.
Posted by Jb (Member # 724) on :
The nose of the ship looks a great deal like that of the space shuttle to me. Definate NASA influence implied. Regards
Jb
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
I wasn't saying that Reverend necessarily made it up. I was simply replying to what Darkwing said. I was pointing out that Bernd apparently had nothing to do w/ it, other than putting it on his site.
Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :
quote:I don't believe that Bernd would be part of a scam or hoax, from what I've seen of him,
Oh, really? :-o
I remember posting something for April Fool's Day.
Posted by darkwing_duck1 (Member # 790) on :
Well, April Fool's Day is different... Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
We can find out if it's real. Give me some minutes, I'll pull out my tape of that episode and check it. Will be back in 45 minutes. Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
if i find its not.. soooo help me, boy....
Posted by pIn'a' Sov (Member # 293) on :
Well, Reverend did say missing okudagram. Doesn�t that imply that if this is real (and why not give the guy the benefit of the doubt, why a prank?) it was cut from the episode for some reason?
Posted by Dr. Jonas Bashir (Member # 481) on :
Hasn't anyone noticed yet that the font used for that thing is AWFULLY similar to that fanboy-made TNG Monitors, where the A and the S is a pale imitation from either Compacta BT or Swiss 911, that seems to be the official font for LCARS software?
Maybe I had the wrong impression. Just for that, I'm on the 'fake' side of the debate.
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
this is exactly what i was referring to here. The font in the Okudagram seen is TNG Monitor, a fake fanboy-font that is number three on the captain's list of pet peeves. Okuda uses Compacta, but a fan interested in copying that can use Swiss911.
in the season 2 okudagrams, okuda was apparently limited by technology, and the appearance of the letters is extremely pixellated. but it is still obviously not TNG Monitor, but a resized Compacta if i may borrow the images:
note the differences in the fonts
please also note that Okuda always put the header 4027X on his Okudagrams (the last digit was the season number.. in this case 2) I remember this because of the 40273 argument over BoBW.. someone pointed out that might be Hanson's ship's registry, until it was shown that that number was on EVERY Okudagram that existed. I think the ship charts and othe Okudagrams support that this number was used more often than not for most set decorations and inserted Okudagrams.
The number in the Charybdis picture is completely dissimilar
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
Back again. It is missing,yes; but there is no scene where the image could possibly appear. Little breakdown of the show:
>A klingon cruiser tells them to fly to Theta 8. >They find debries, beam the NASA-flag-wreckage on board. >No one tries to find out where it comes from; Riker, Worf and Data beam down, enter the hotel-structure, Enterprise looses contact. >While they investigate, Geordi and Wesley try to re-establish contact. >After establishing contact, Riker tells them what they know, but they didn't find Richey yet. >Data finds the lifeform in a hotel-room with the tricorder, they go there and find the dead body of Richey. There's his uniform, too, and a close-up reveals the mission emblem is the same pictured on the page linked above. Obviously no one knows Richey, they contact Enterprise and tell them to find out who he is. >Colonel Stephen Richey was the commander of the science vessel Charybdis; it left earth on July 23rd, 2037; it was the third manned mission to leave the solar system. Picard tells the away team this while reading it from a monitor at the bridge (science station). >In the end they buy the hotel and leave it; Riker meets Picard in his ready room in the last scene and they discuss the parallels between the mission and Fremat's mathematical riddle. This is the only time where we see an Okudagram, Picards desktop computer, but it is text-only.
I suppose the only scene where the Okudagram could have been seen was the the scene with Picard informing the team. But since it was a monologue and the cut probably took place after filming had been finished, I suppose it is difficult to delete that scene. And I guess it was only one or two seconds, so I really don't see any sense in doing this.
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
i've prepared an example of the differences of the two fonts
thats Swiss911, the passable Compacta variant on the left and TNG Monitor, the pathetic staple of bad websites on the right...
draw your conclusions
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
Instead of pulling a "Conspiracy Theory," why don't we all just wait until Reverend gives out some more info. For all we know, Mojo could have made this for his Unseen Frontiers book.
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
i would sincerely hope that Mojo is smart enough to never go near TNGMonitor.. im a litle ashamed to have had to install it on my machine in order to create that img. He is a professional graphic artist and should know the difference between readable design fonts and shitty imitations.
But you are right, lets wait for Reverend. And find out what this 'anonymous source' is.. and why that so called 'screengrab' is completely doctored....
Posted by The_Tom (Member # 38) on :
Or we could drop the pretense and invoke the famed words of Senator Vreenak.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
I thought you guys would never figure it out!
Thanks very much to my co-conspiritors at ASDB and everyone else who was in on it, you know who you are. Very special thanks of course goes to Bernd the incorruptable for making the more convincing "screencap".
I hope you lot had as much fun as I did and I'm glad that this topic has generated some valid discussion despite the deception.
As for the bad font...well it was all I had at the time and I didn't exactly plan this. I originally made the image for JOAT as an historical record, but after showign it to my fellow I thought we could have a giggle by giving you fine people the runaround ;-)
I realise that I've just destroyed what little credibility I may have had...but it was worth it
P.S. MOJO, I'd be very flattered but I'm not about to get my hopes up...after all you didn't like my hopper much either not that I'm particulary fond of it myself...
Toodles.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
For those of you who are interested, I have stuck the updated and unaltered design over on designs, artwork & creativity where it belongs.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Yah...TNG Monitor is so completely worthless that any graphic or website daring to use it is automatically shite and any damn fool worthless and pathetic enough to install it on his machine must forthwith be barred from the field of graphic design forever.
Lord, Mike. The ego in that post stretched my screen...
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Actually neither font is quite right. The fan made version wouldn't be so bad if someone were to correct the error in the 'A' character. I find the swiss font to be a little too thick to be the "real" LCARS font.
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
Good. Really good. You got me with that 'screenshot'. Good work. Do you know what's really interesting? When I watched that episode again, they mentioned the Charybdis' library. A ship of that size has a library (it obviously had a crew of several persons, too). But why the hell do they store a book like that in the library??? I mean, I understand that they don't want to read Goethe or Dante or Rowling, but why this book? Imagine you had to live in such a novel for the rest of your live. Awful.
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
the Swiss911 font is fine, but doesnt size small well at all unless your smooth it a lot.. BTW, the swiss font is the right thickness, like Compacta, but Okuda has said that there is no exact match since even when he uses a Font that others have, he plays with the aspect ratio so that its always a little thinner that the real version
Posted by Yakaspat The Trekker (Member # 355) on :
CaptainMike, you are really overplaying the differences between that oh-so-offensive TrekMonitor font and the righteous "real" Okuda font. Objectively, from a distance they are nearly identical. What happened to you as a child to make you loath...a font...so much? ;-)
Me think he doth protest to much. Perhaps CaptainMike *secretly* has desires the forbidden font!
Shouldn't we have realised this was a fake when the title named the episode "Hotel Royale" [TNG] when it is "The Royale" [TNG]!?!
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
I've never trusted TNGMonitor.. and I never will... I can never forgive it.. for the death of my boy.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote:Originally posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov: Good. Really good. You got me with that 'screenshot'. Good work. Do you know what's really interesting? When I watched that episode again, they mentioned the Charybdis' library. A ship of that size has a library (it obviously had a crew of several persons, too). But why the hell do they store a book like that in the library??? I mean, I understand that they don't want to read Goethe or Dante or Rowling, but why this book? Imagine you had to live in such a novel for the rest of your live. Awful.
Well the Botany Bay had Moby Dick, King Lear and the Bible...I suppose genetically engineereed tyrants are more cultured than your average NASA pilot.
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
I love font geeks. Love.
Well, sort of.
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
I love you too.. sweetie.
Well..
Sort of.
[ June 01, 2002, 01:55: Message edited by: CaptainMike ]
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
quote:Originally posted by CaptainMike:
I love you too.. sweetie.
Well..
Sort of.
Isn't it romantic? ... Posted by Yakaspat The Trekker (Member # 355) on :
quote:Originally posted by CaptainMike: I've never trusted TNGMonitor.. and I never will... I can never forgive it.. for the death of my boy.
Me being able to read Capt. Mike's message with the appropriate font indicates I am a sad, sad individual. I pity myself. Posted by J (Member # 608) on :
I had to put it into word to translate it... don't feel too bad.
Out of strange coincidence the first fonts that appeared when I changed were the trek fonts I have [from the different trek programs like Omnipedia, Encyclopedia, TNG TM, etc].
Posted by The Ulcer Mongoose (Member # 239) on :
If you put it in notepad, you don't have to worry about discovering what secret illuminati font Mike used. Not that it's not fun trying to decode that stuff. Like McGyver. But with less bailing wire. Yes.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
I, too have that font, even thought I don't have a clue which one it is... but did manage to work out something of what was typed!
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
Imagine you had to live in such a novel for the rest of your live. Awful.