Well, not the Kyushu yet. I'm still cleaning those up... the model is seen from multiple angles and from two different distances. But I do have the only views of the Firebrand and Princeton done. Freshly capped:
These were all still images scanned into the featurette, unlike the look at the Kyushu, which was the model dangling from the ceiling of Okuda's office and filmed in realtime. At least the Firebrand's registry seems confirmed. But unfortunately, the views don't reveal much else.
If you want to repost them on a website or something, permission is granted. All I ask is a credit via a URL. Kyushu is coming later tonight...
Posted by Akira62497 (Member # 850) on :
Sweet thanks Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
Well, it's hard to tell from that one cap, but it looks to me like the Firebrand's saucer is supposed to be the same scale as the Princeton's. It could even be from the same mold -- which would make a lot of sense, given that the Firebrand and the Princeton were the two scratch-built models for Wolf 359. (Right?)
In that case, one of the Fact Files diagrams is a bit off. (Shocking, I know...) It would mean that both saucers have to be the same size, and both ships' nacelles would have to be the same size as the Galaxy-class.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Wow, an actual decent view of a Freedom... That little blister on the bottom of the nacelle is wider than I thought. Perhaps it's the torpedo launcher?
Mark
Posted by USSMillennium74754 (Member # 822) on :
Sorry about some of the rough edges... my capture software sucks. Anyway, anyone familiar with the AMT Enterprise-D kit can instantly recognize the parts used in the Kyushu... interesting that lower sensor/torpedo/whatever pod hanging off the engineering hull is mounted on a pole rather than being blended into the hull or on a longer support structure.
Posted by USSMillennium74754 (Member # 822) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mark Nguyen: Wow, an actual decent view of a Freedom... That little blister on the bottom of the nacelle is wider than I thought. Perhaps it's the torpedo launcher?
Could be. But why would they put one there and then above the nacelle, a la Enterprise-A? (Then again these are kitbashes we're talking about...)
Posted by Akira62497 (Member # 850) on :
any models in any of the interviews, like in the back grounds? Thanks for the images
Posted by Ace (Member # 389) on :
Wow, the New Orleans looks quite nice here. A nice way of taking the E-D's lines into a smaller ship like the Nova did with the Sovereign. Too bad we didn't get it in CGI later on.
Posted by USSMillennium74754 (Member # 822) on :
quote:Originally posted by Akira62497: any models in any of the interviews, like in the back grounds? Thanks for the images
The only one I noticed was the Nebula(?) variant, posted in the first message. Other than that, nothing new besides different views of the four foot Enterprise-D model, the Vor'cha, Excelsior, Reliant, and some other non-Wolf 359 ships. (Most of the interviews were done this previous year on a soundstage with a Star Trek Nemesis logo background. Only some snippets with Okuda and Sternbach were done in the art department offices.)
Posted by Akira62497 (Member # 850) on :
what sort of non wolf359 ships?
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
Right. Two things.
1) I am not almost 95% certain that there was no custom bridge piece made for the the Kyushu. That bridge module there looks almost certainly to be the top half of the captain's yacht from the 1/1400 AMT/Ertl E-D model.
2) I don't think the ventral pod is supposed to be extended like that. Think about it: that's the perfect place to put the mounting rod for filming. But the pod's in the way. So...pull off the pod & put it on a pole of sorts so that when it's replaced, it can simply slide into the mounting hole. In these shots, it looks as if it's been falling out. Of course, for show reasons, we could say that it's the mounting trunk for the pod, created for simple & easy swapability like the bridge units.
Posted by USSMillennium74754 (Member # 822) on :
quote:Originally posted by Akira62497: what sort of non wolf359 ships?
The ones I mentioned... lemme try to remember more... I believe they also showed the Type 7 shuttle, a side view of the "All Good Things..." Enterprise-D, master molds for the Warbird, Ferengi Marauder, and the Vor'cha, and a bunch of different angles of the Enterprise-D, mostly the four-foot model.
It's a shame some of these pics aren't better quality... some would be nice reference if they were clearer.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
I'm a little confuzzled about the Kyushu's ventral pod as well. Didn't we see a pic in the Chronology or something that pretty much told us that this pod was flush with the hull? Hang on a sec, I think Pedro may have what I'm talking about...
Hmm, come to think of it, it may not be so conclusive after all...
Mark
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
I do believe it's this shot Bernd has at EAS from "Star Trek Mechanics 4" that you're thinking of. But yes, there's absolutely no shadowing, thus making it seemingly flush up against the hull.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Uh-oh... So, are we saying now that the ventral pod may indeed be suspended as these new pics show us? The pic from Bernd's site seemingly shows the model hung in the same place and orientation as the new screencaps...
Mark
Posted by USSMillennium74754 (Member # 822) on :
quote:Originally posted by Shik: I do believe it's this shot Bernd has at EAS from "Star Trek Mechanics 4" that you're thinking of. But yes, there's absolutely no shadowing, thus making it seemingly flush up against the hull.
Hmm... odd. The model is obviously in the same place in both the Mechanics pic and the interview, as evidenced by the TNG poster in the background and the rubber band hanger. The interview was taped in August 1991, so assuming the pic is older, the pod probably popped out at some point after filming was finished on BOBW. It should actually be flush, like you said.
Posted by USSMillennium74754 (Member # 822) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mark Nguyen: The pic from Bernd's site seemingly shows the model hung in the same place and orientation as the new screencaps...
Actually, there didn't seem to be any orientation per se, since the model was bouncing up and down and twirling from the ceiling in the footage. Not hard to see how something could jostle loose.
Posted by Akira62497 (Member # 850) on :
when are you going to post the graveyard scene ?
like some zoom pics and some screencaps?
Posted by USSMillennium74754 (Member # 822) on :
quote:Originally posted by Akira62497: when are you going to post the graveyard scene ?
like some zoom pics and some screencaps?
Does anybody want them? (I'm probably opening a Pandora's box here.)
I'm not sure if they'd be of any better quality, though, since my capture software is so crappy...
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
As someone once said, the damage doesn't look as bad from out here. Aside from losing anyone working in the far aft sections of the secondary hull, and some hits to the dorsal surface of the saucer, it looks like the Kyushu could be harboring quite a few survivors. (Barring things invisible and nasty, like, say, radiation from that exploded nacelle. Ouch.)
Posted by Akira62497 (Member # 850) on :
PLEASE GIVE ME
id be so so happy anytime now im waiting
Hurry up i want to see them NOW
if you could jut take some really big pics id be happy any zooms would be nice if you could do that
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote: Hmm, come to think of it, it may not be so conclusive after all...
I think you'll find that particular photo has been airbrushed so it's nearly impossible to tell if the pod is blended or seperated. Personally I have no problem with the pod being able to extend and retract like that, for all we know it could be a function of...whatever the those pods are.
quote: As someone once said, the damage doesn't look as bad from out here. Aside from losing anyone working in the far aft sections of the secondary hull, and some hits to the dorsal surface of the saucer, it looks like the Kyushu could be harboring quite a few survivors. (Barring things invisible and nasty, like, say, radiation from that exploded nacelle. Ouch.)
Or the crew could have been beamed aboard the cube and assimilated. You're right though, it is in pretty good nick, maybe even repairable.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Actually, that "ST Mechanics" picture seems to have very little shadowing of any sort anywhere, so I'm not sure that it's conclusive, either.
That said, my belief has been reaffirmed that the New Orleans looks completely bad-ass from any angle except a profile schematic view. :-)
[ September 08, 2002, 11:11: Message edited by: TSN ]
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote: 2) I don't think the ventral pod is supposed to be extended like that. Think about it: that's the perfect place to put the mounting rod for filming. But the pod's in the way. So...pull off the pod & put it on a pole of sorts so that when it's replaced, it can simply slide into the mounting hole. In these shots, it looks as if it's been falling out. Of course, for show reasons, we could say that it's the mounting trunk for the pod, created for simple & easy swapability like the bridge units.
Trek ships - especially the smaller ones, were mounted upside-down.
Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :
USSMillennium74754:
Great new pics! I'm especially pleased with the New Orleans which simply looks great from the various angles.
May I use the new images at EAS?
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
quote:Originally posted by AndrewR: Trek ships - especially the smaller ones, were mounted upside-down.
On average. There were always various mounting points. Plus, didn't we see Kyushu, Princeton, & a couple others dorsally only? That would require a ventral mount.
One wonders if the model is still on Se�or Okuda's ceiling. If so, it may merely be a simple task of popping off a note & saying, "Hey Mike? Is that pod supposed to be out like that?"
Posted by USSMillennium74754 (Member # 822) on :
Bernd:
quote:Originally posted by USSMillennium74754: If you want to repost them on a website or something, permission is granted. All I ask is a credit via a URL.
Anyway, I'll try and cap some of the graveyard scene based on the common angles seen at EAS, Copernicus, and Starship Class. Give me a few days, though. I wanna play around and see if I can get better quality.
I'm also growing quite fond of the New Orleans--yet another reason it sucks that Unseen Frontier was canned.
Posted by Akira62497 (Member # 850) on :
u could post some low res till than Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
Whining gets you smacked.
Posted by Akira62497 (Member # 850) on :
i was not. thats just my way of trying :-P j/k
Posted by USSMillennium74754 (Member # 822) on :
Hmm... did a few test caps, and I don't know if they're that much better than anything we have right now. Here's a quick comparison between the new ones and Chris Spinnler's from Copernicus Ship Yards.
Yes, they are a little bigger and clearer, but it doesn't seem as if there's much we haven't found before. The only thing new I noticed was in the last pic: to the upper left of the 1701-D's saucer, that previously indistinct glob of debris seems to look a little like one of the Enterprise Phase II study models. Thoughts?
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
Wow, good 'caps, Millennium. About the ship in question that you think is one of the Excelsior study models...I always thought it was another view (top) of the Chekov. The upper pod above the engineering hull is highlited like in the previous shot of it on the viewscreen.
Posted by The Red Admiral (Member # 602) on :
Great stuff, very interesting - and thrilling to see the Kyushu in such detail. It's also very intriguing to see the scale of the Freedom saucer, much larger than anticipated. We'd have to say that this is quite a large ship, on a par with the Niagara. And after being about 99% sure the Niagara saucer was elliptical, it has now been 100% confirmed.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote: The only thing new I noticed was in the last pic: to the upper left of the 1701-D's saucer, that previously indistinct glob of debris seems to look a little like one of the Enterprise Phase II study models. Thoughts?
I honestly can't see that...however I think we do have a good picture of the Ahwahnee, on the second and third pics, top right corner. It definatly isn't the 4 nacelled excelsior study.
Posted by USSMillennium74754 (Member # 822) on :
Now that you mention it, I can see the Cheyenne resemblence. The lower nacelles are really visible.
What about that ship to the right and above of the Enterprise-A saucer in the second pic? It definitely seems more like the sleek Excelsior study model rather than the Springfield. Of course, it could be at a weird angle, too.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
I think I have to agree about the Cheyenne. In the second pic, you can almost see the red stripe around the upper port nacelle.
Posted by Felix the Kzin (Member # 646) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dukhat: Wow, good 'caps, Millennium. About the ship in question that you think is one of the Excelsior study models...I always thought it was another view (top) of the Chekov. The upper pod above the engineering hull is highlited like in the previous shot of it on the viewscreen.
If you mean the one that's below the Enterprise-D in the fourth, fifth, and sixth pics, that's the Challenger-class U.S.S. Buran.
quote:Originally posted by USSMillennium74754: What about that ship to the right and above of the Enterprise-A saucer in the second pic?
This one? The Springfield-class U.S.S. Chekov.
Posted by Snay (Member # 411) on :
There.
Is.
No.
Enterprise.
Class.
Posted by Akira62497 (Member # 850) on :
when does the redemption episode with the grave yeard come out?
BTW i love the picsnow if we can zoom on them to get a better screencap Posted by Starship Millennium (Member # 822) on :
quote:Originally posted by Snay: There.
Is.
No.
Enterprise.
Class.
Yes.
There.
Is.
"Unification, Parts I and II" will be released with Season 5 on November 5. You're welcome to try and enhance/blow these caps up... but they're already zoomed in as far as it'll go without pixelation becoming a problem.
[ September 08, 2002, 21:06: Message edited by: Starship Millennium ]
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Great stuff! Thanks a million to SS Millennium!
Yeah, the Firebrand is a big mother all right. And the view (and the nacelle) is definitely ventral, judging by the orientation of the registry. The neck ain't from any Constitution model kit - something out of the Constellation mold sounds quite possible. If this was our last best hope to get more detail, we still lucked out on the bridge superstructure specifics... And the doohickey below the nacelle could be a deflector or a shuttlebay or even a dropship instead of a torp launcher, but there's no way to tell from these pics.
It's a bit surprising that the Kyushu has no shuttlebay. There's nothing between the upper pods, nor on the spine or in the stern. Then again, I've always been the advocate of mission-specific designs and gear: not all missions require a shuttlebay, and the Kyushu apparently isn't tasked with exploring transporter-impermeable planets...
Agreed 100% that the four-naceller is the Ahwahnee and not the Excelsior study model. And the Chekov seems to be the Chekov, too. With the dorsal pod and without the ventral one.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
I, personally, would not set foot on a ship with no auxillary craft.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
...Which is I like to believe that SOME sort of shuttlebay was on the dorsal aft of the secondary hull, which was conveniently blown up on the Kyushu.
Mark
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Yeah, me too, really. That would also make the ship nicely different from the E-D it otherwise resembles. A stern shuttlebay is characteristic of older ships, and this *is* a predecessor of sorts to the Galaxy class.
One wonders. The former E-D torp launcher doesn't look too much like a torp launcher in this reduced scale - the paint job doesn't suggest any sort of an opening there. The pods thus look more and more like torp launchers. Would they have blackened ("muzzle") aft ends, too?
A cute detail: the former windows in the ten-forward location are apparently transformed into an auxiliary deflector of sorts by application of gold paint. So the former aux.deflector on the saucer underside could in turn be a row of windows on this ship... Custom stuff like that sets Miarecki's ships well apart from the unimaginative Constitution-bashes of the eighties.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Akira62497 (Member # 850) on :
what happened to the ship that suposed to have there exscape pods launched i remember reading this in a book but i dont remember witch one
so were are those models at? (might have been in the TNG tech manual or the companion)
Posted by Dr. Phlox (Member # 878) on :
quote:Originally posted by Akira62497: what happened to the ship that suposed to have there exscape pods launched i remember reading this in a book but i dont remember witch one
I've got a feeling that was supposed to be the Melbourne, but it doesn't look like that on the model.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Is the little blob above the Kyushu the shuttle from the Liberator (which letter had the tilde?)
And the ship that is exploding to the left of the little blob has two nacelles with some sort of object between them... is this the Chekov? (The one with the supposed under-slung pod seen in that pic sitting on the coffee cup?)
Andrew
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
MMoM: No, the ship you point out was not the one I was referring to. It's the ship immediately to the left of the Enterprise's saucer.
Akira: The book you are referring to was the TNG Companion, by Larry Nemecek. He stated something to the effect of "Some of the wrecked hulls can even be seen with their escape pod hatches open - a Greg Jein touch." Seeing as how the only two ships Greg built were the Princeton and the Firebrand, and that neither one of them have their escape pod doors open, I think it's safe to say that Nemecek was full of shit.
Andrew: I'd like to know what that "blob" is as well. I don't think it's the Liberator shuttle. Also, if you look closely, you can see that this object is actually in every shot in the graveyard. Further elaboration to come...
Posted by Vice-Admiral Michael T. Colorge (Member # 144) on :
Well, when Season 5 comes out I can see what other ships were used in the Quaylor 2 yards in Unification.
Posted by Akira62497 (Member # 850) on :
do you guys see the relaint in there with one truster its right in the middle? its in every pic i think unless thats the blob you all are talking about. i think i see the phase II model in there also.
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
My $0.02 about the models:
I again have to wonder why the filmers did not use the Princeton & Firebrand more prominently. IMHO, they were just as good as regular studio models, and they did not do the ships any justice whatsoever by having them shown in the background/off to the side/etc.
I doubt that the Firebrand's neck is a Connie neck; that is to say that I doubt the ship has a Connie-style torpedo launcher as the FF shows. Other than that and the White color, the FF were pretty close to the real thing.
I also think that the little pole above the bottom tube on the Kyushu was supposed to be there all along, and we just never saw it before. It's even the same color as the rest of the ship. Plus, the bridge looks a bit different than a regular Galaxy bridge, shape-wise & window-wise.
As for the newer screencaps of the battle scene...I still cannot see anything that I feel resembles either an Excelsior study model or a "Phase II" Enterprise. I believe that they were indeed shot, but that those shots were used in Unification instead, since no damage was applied to them.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Timo: I'm pretty sure I can see a shuttlebay on the Kyushu, between the pods.
I may be wrong of course.
As for the damage to the aft section, I've always interperated that as the damage caused by the borg nicking the warpcore.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
If a door were on the dorsal aft of the saucer per Rev's picture, it couldn't possibly be a shuttlebay. Fiven the scale, people would barely be able to squeeze through it...
Mark
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Yeah, I'd say the GCS main shuttlebay is still on the NO saucer exactly where you'd expect it to be, but the scale makes it difficult for it to still be a shuttlebay. I don't think the GCS doors are a lot taller than a shuttle, and the NO is scaled down to a little over one-half-size.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
Assuming I've scaled this correctly, I'd say that the average shuttle can fit in a 1/2 scaled Galaxy-Class shuttlebay quite comfortably. I think you've underestimated just how vast the full sized structure is.
On the other hand the other two shuttlebays are indeed too small when scaled down to NO proportions, but they can just as easily be carobays. Assuming of course these features are perserved on the NO model.
Posted by Captain-class, Mike-variant (Member # 709) on :
from new angles, the Kyushu is a damn beautiful ship. the top and bottom views we are accustomed to didnt flatter it very much
Posted by Starship Millennium (Member # 822) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dukhat: Akira: The book you are referring to was the TNG Companion, by Larry Nemecek. He stated something to the effect of "Some of the wrecked hulls can even be seen with their escape pod hatches open - a Greg Jein touch." Seeing as how the only two ships Greg built were the Princeton and the Firebrand, and that neither one of them have their escape pod doors open, I think it's safe to say that Nemecek was full of shit.
I don't know if it was in the TNG Companion as well, but this info appeared in the TNG Tech Manual first. Sternbach or Okuda mentioned that some Jein-built ships had open lifeboat hatches, but didn't say which ones. I'm guessing either they were added to the Niagara and Freedom later on, or are on some unseen or indistinct debris (we know there's stuff like that, based on the Liberator shuttle and that eBay saucer piece over at Guardian of Forever).
Posted by Starship Millennium (Member # 822) on :
Just updated the page with two series of images... I think the resolution is maxxed out at 870 by 652. Take a look... maybe we can confirm/dispute some observations.
Posted by Akira62497 (Member # 850) on :
Thanks ill see what i can make out of them Posted by Akira62497 (Member # 850) on :
from what i can tell of this pic http://home.att.net/~starships/centaur/1-10.jpg the ship on the bottom right corner is the Challanger Class USS Buran at a sort of side view under way the one above it is the Cheyenne class U.S.S. Ahwahnee to the bottom left is the New Orleans class U.S.S. Kyushu above that is the Miranda Class U.S.S. Relaiant from ST2 the one with the truster missing or the Liberator Shuttle Craft the one to the top left is the U.S.S. Chekov Springfield class http://home.att.net/~starships/centaur/2-02.jpg This picture pretty much is the same as the above but with the Niagara class U.S.S. Princeton poping up on the screen and what i think to be an excelsior studio model or a upside down excelsior or an right up side one with the trusters going do the hall (kinda imagine it going towards the womans chair like 30degrees and with the neceals comming towards the screen
http://home.att.net/~starships/centaur/2-00.jpg this pic the only thing different than the above is the U.S.S. Chekov Springfield class up in the top left hand corner and some object in the bottom right hand corner witch we will never know what it is (maybe in 2009)
http://home.att.net/~starships/centaur/6-08.jpg this is almost the same as the above one with the conny removed and the Freedom-class U.S.S. Firebrand ont the very top left hand corner and the New Orleans class U.S.S. Kyushu right underneath it What do you all think of these observations? Tell me you idea's guys this is mine
[ September 09, 2002, 22:37: Message edited by: Akira62497 ]
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Wow, that thing in the lower right corner of the first picture MUST be the Buran! Nicely spotted!
Tentatively agreed with the rest - but I think that in the last two pics, the ship to the left of the E-D (the one you say resembles the Phoenix) could simply be the Chekov again. And even seen from practically the same angle as in the first picture. The aft half of the saucer seems to be extensively charred, so as to be almost invisible in all the pics.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Akira62497 (Member # 850) on :
i think you might be right about the Chekov Iwould have to agree that it would have to be the buran
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
How is it that no-one ever found the Buran in the lower right of the viewscreen before? I've never even seen a capture of that shot before...
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Weeeell, the original caps showed this jumbled mess of glowy bits that didn't lend itself to much analysis. Remember how we could barely ID the Melbourne for what she was? And she was centrally positioned and had more screen time.
And still, I believe that somebody did suggest that the lower-right collection of spare parts could be the Buran. Or the Chekov. I just can't find the thread right now (and it must be more than a year old...).
Apparently, the Buran is on fire between the aft hull and the lower nacelle. The upper nacelle has been chewed on. And the saucer is a mess, but still a round (or oval) mess. In the final pics, we could be seeing the same ship since the damage is identical (doh!) and since the position wrt the Kyushu and the Chekov is similar. Perhaps the fires finally ran out of oxygen?
Alternately, there are multiple ships of each class present, and the identical-looking damage is just a coincidence... Or a sign of Borg systematicsm in targeting ships of a certain class in a certain way.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Akira62497 (Member # 850) on :
would you guys like a Gif image of the graveyard sceen that moves?
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Only if there's LCARS graphics and a travelling label system showing what ships are where, their NCC numbers, and what class they are.
Mark
Posted by Akira62497 (Member # 850) on :
i could do that Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
I could probably figure that out, too. I've got Macromedia Flash -- never learned it yet, but this would be a fun way to try! And I know that you can incorporate video into the Flash movies... how would THAT make for a good analysis? Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
quote:I don't know if it was in the TNG Companion as well, but this info appeared in the TNG Tech Manual first. Sternbach or Okuda mentioned that some Jein-built ships had open lifeboat hatches, but didn't say which ones. I'm guessing either they were added to the Niagara and Freedom later on, or are on some unseen or indistinct debris (we know there's stuff like that, based on the Liberator shuttle and that eBay saucer piece over at Guardian of Forever).
That may be true, but I think that if there was a wrecked hull that was actually large enough to show the open lifeboat hatches (instead of just a random chunk of debris), then we probably would have known about it. Also, what "Ebay saucer piece" are you referring to? The Enterprise saucer from STIII?
Posted by NeghVar (Member # 62) on :
Later! Art
Posted by The Red Admiral (Member # 602) on :
Excellent capture work so far. I've planned to get this 4th season DVD pack and use the clearer images to update the Wolf 359 screencap analysis page, but you beat me to it. I've used these great pictures and enhanced them a little to update the analysis, yielding intriguing new information - links and credits have been inserted. Many thanks...
Well, that's the first I've seen of that. Did whoever is selling it claim that it's an original piece from BoBW? So, like, what credentials did this person have, and how would they have gotten their hands on an original filming model?
But let's for the sake of argument say that it's an original piece. We still don't know who made it, or what ship it's supposed to represent. It could be just a piece from the Melbourne that Okuda lopped off. Or perhaps it's the Tolstoy?...no, wait, I'm just kidding. ...actually, this piece might be the object in the middle of the screen which everyone keeps thinking is the Liberator shuttle. Seeing as it's a Galaxy-type saucer, it seriously might be a good candidate for what's left of the Tolstoy.
Posted by Dr. Phlox (Member # 878) on :
^ The cut lines match the Melbourne's saucer quite well. Maybe that was done to make it look more authentic? Or it could be the real thing...
Anyhoo, I made a little gif of the first shot of the graveyard, it's a bit big, so it might take a while to load.
Wow... guess I was wrong. What a difference a little less fog makes... Great work both on the GIFs and the new analysis.
I have to admit, though, I must be blind 'cause I'm still not seeing the Buran in the viewscreen. Could someone point out where the nacelles and saucer are?
Posted by The Red Admiral (Member # 602) on :
It's basically upright in this image, you can see the up/down nacelles, the battle-damaged saucer is just off screen.
Posted by Akira62497 (Member # 850) on :
im sorry but i still feel the Query 2 is the Springfield Class and the miranda is right bside it or the liberator shuttle. and the ??? is the phase 2 model and the Klingnon D-7 (cause the green tint and they said one klingnon ship was there) or the excelsior study model or the phase to model
How come i did not get any credit lol j/k
Great work though Keep It up
[ September 10, 2002, 21:36: Message edited by: Akira62497 ]
Posted by Starship Millennium (Member # 822) on :
I'd agree that the ship in question is probably the Chekov... the pod is pretty distinct.
If anyone's interested, I will be making a Zip file of all the caps, plus redone Kyushu/Firebrand/Princeton shots, sometime tomorrow or Thursday. If you need another frame not included in this series for a gif or animation, now would be the time to request it. Posted by Akira62497 (Member # 850) on :
ooops i read that wrong
[ September 10, 2002, 21:35: Message edited by: Akira62497 ]
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
That ebay galaxy/nebula saucer piece is legit. It was donated by the folks over at Paramount for a huge Star Trek (charity?) auction that included other stuff like props, costumes, production sketches,(storyboard sketches?), and scripts. It made big news a few months ago and we briefly discussed it here.
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Just to get the required off-topic dosage to this thread as well:
In the analysis pages of the good Red Admiral, a few Unification comments trigger in me an urge to lift an eyebrow. On Image 3, I can't quite figure out how the Excelsior study model saucer could match the saucer #6. Is it supposed to be upside down or what? Even then, the pronounced ridges running radially from the center to the rim look far steeper than the ridges on the bottom of the study model saucer.
On the same image, #8 is a very obvious upside-down SS Batris...
On image 6, #14 is a dead ringer for the Soliton Wave Rider from "New Ground", aka the Mars Defense Perimeter Craft. I can't see any standard saucer on #15 - it looks very much like the Talarian X-winged warship from "Suddenly Human" instead, with an arrowhead hull made of ISD kit components... On image 5, there's another Talarian vessel, this time the training ship where they found the abducted human. The ship is facing to the upper left (but sans her vertical wings).
DVD imagery will probably eliminate most of the uncertainties...
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Dr. Phlox (Member # 878) on :
quote:im sorry but i still feel the Query 2 is the Springfield Class and the miranda is right bside it or the liberator shuttle.
I really don't think that Query 2 is the Reliant. Sure, they could have pulled out the old, damaged Reliant studio model for the shot, but then why would they have filmed it so far away, and why would Okuda remember about the STIII Enterprise, but not the Reliant?
I also don't think it's the Liberator shuttle. That model, although damaged for the scene, wasn't that damaged. And I can't see this shuttle being that object, at any angle you place it.
The best candidate I can see for this object would be the newly-confirmed-as-authentic Galaxy-type saucer piece (which, BTW, I don't ever remember there being any discussion about here in the past )
[ September 11, 2002, 10:12: Message edited by: Dukhat ]
Posted by The Red Admiral (Member # 602) on :
Many thanks for the input Timo. I knew one day someone would be able to positively identify some of the Qualor II ships. I remember the Soliton Waverider now, just forgot what it looked like.
As for the Excelsior study model saucer, it just looks like the best candidate. It may have been amended/adjusted before filming in this scene, I don't know. It's not a dead ringer, just very close.
Are you sure #8 is the Batris?? I does resemble it upside down, but I'm not sure. You could of course be right...
I'm not convinced about #15 being the Talarian X-Wing ship. There's no clear indication of a saucer in #15, but it just looks a bit like you're looking at a Soyuz Class ship from the port stern. You can even see what looks like a raised bridge module. Until better quality captures can be made it's going to be very difficult to tell what it is.
And you believe you've identified the ship at the top of Image 5 as well.. Indeed thanks, and I shall update the page with the new information, and credit you for it.
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
I'm pretty much convinced that the X-wing must be the X-wing. Not much can be seen in the extreme close-up picture, but there is a telltale structure that features a raised "pedestal" on which two domelike "bridges" are placed, one closer to the camera and one farther off. This structure is quite similar to the thing that runs along the dorsal ridge of the X-wing, as seen in the (admittedly fuzzy) "Suddenly Human" screencap. Flanking the forward dome are deep indentations to the wedgelike hull, marked in dark in this picture but better seen in other shots for which I have no caps.
I must disagree with Dr. Phlox about this ship. The Talarian "observation craft/training ship" that is seen in image 5 has a different bridge arrangement without any domes. Also, its side indentations are far less pronounced than those of the X-wing. And the bow is rather long and sleek and would probably not fit into image 6, whereas the more truncated snout of the X-wing is visible there.
'Course, I may be proven humiliatingly wrong when better imagery comes along - as usual, I keep seeing things I want to see. But this looks like a very clear reuse of the Talarian material to me.
And it may be our last look at actual new footage on this model. Later TNG and DS9 appearances were either stock footage, or then featured the X-wing in modified form, with the aft hull and the aft halves of the wings removed so that the ship could dock with DS9 butt first. The observation/training ship in turn apparently became the Tamarian two-nacelled ship after this appearance...
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
I must agree with Timo that those models are reuses of the Talarian vessels. We have the observation craft, the warship, and the freighter. And this is not too much of a stretch to see these alien ships in a Starfleet surplus depot. Perhaps they were captured during the war and relegated here once their usefulness was utilized, and were never returned to their rightful owners. That is almost certainly the case with the Klingon battlecruiser.
However, I also have to agree with Timo that the stand-alone saucer does not belong to the Excelsior studio model. I understand that our Wolf 359 research page at Bernd's speculates this, but I don't agree. At the least, the saucer's rim is far too thick to be the same.
So, the ships at Qualor include:
-a Klingon battlecruiser; -stock footage of the Melbourne; -stock footage of the Princeton; -stock footage of the Buran; -"Phase II" McQuarrie Enterprise; -four-nacelled Excelsior study model (shown twice); -"flat" Excelsior study model (shown twice); -Tyrus particle fountain sans base; -Talarian observation craft; -Talarian warship; -Talarian freighter; -a similar looking Talarian freighter; -Mars perimiter/soliton waverider (shown twice); -an unknown saucer; -at least two Mirandas
[ September 11, 2002, 14:56: Message edited by: Dukhat ]
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Just to get a word sidewise: The battlecruiser could well be Romulan, considering the Romulan border is nearby. And the McQuarrie ship is perhaps better called the "pre-Phase II Enterprise", not to be confused with the actual Phase II model that SotSF fans know as the Constitution (II) class...
I was going to say something constructive, too. Now what was it? Oh, yeah. Judging by the shadows, the mystery saucer seems to be made of two "hubcaps" or "pans" atop each other. The smaller "pan" has moderate curvature and what seems like a low, near-vertical rim. This rim makes a very sharp angle with the bigger "pan", which has little curvature and a thick vertical rim. The faces of both "pans" seem to be textured, and there's also texturing on the rim of the bigger "pan".
Now where have we seen a structure like that? The only known saucer where the central part makes a sharp angle with the broader part is the bottom half of the Galaxy saucer. I'm not convinced this is a Galaxy bottom (or two bottoms glued together), but it's one possibility. Another is that this is the bottom half of a Constitution saucer, and we just can't see the convexity of the outer part. But the sharp angle between the inner and outer parts suggests otherwise.
In any case, the saucer seems to have intricate detail, possibly even including decals. Yet it looks like nothing we'd have seen elsewhere. Surely it wasn't constructed for "Unification" alone, yet it clearly is (part of) a purpose-built Federation starship. I'm quite tempted to think this could be an unseen and possibly even unfilmed "BoBW" model.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:I must agree with Timo that those models are reuses of the Talarian vessels. We have the observation craft, the warship, and the freighter. And this is not too much of a stretch to see these alien ships in a Starfleet surplus depot. Perhaps they were captured during the war and relegated here once their usefulness was utilized, and were never returned to their rightful owners. That is almost certainly the case with the Klingon battlecruiser
These 'Talarian' Ships were also seen in the final scenes of "Emissary". Xepolite freighters?
Andrew
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
quote:In any case, the saucer seems to have intricate detail, possibly even including decals. Yet it looks like nothing we'd have seen elsewhere. Surely it wasn't constructed for "Unification" alone, yet it clearly is (part of) a purpose-built Federation starship. I'm quite tempted to think this could be an unseen and possibly even unfilmed "BoBW" model.
Actually, I'm more inclined to think that it's from the mysterious "fourth" Excelsior study model Okuda speculated about...
Posted by Capped In Mic (Member # 709) on :
nope, Frunalian science ships, Andy
Posted by Capped In Mic (Member # 709) on :
check this image I enhanced! they loaded up on details for these! Posted by Dr. Phlox (Member # 878) on :
Wow! Is that... is that the famous Okuda slideshow going on in there!? Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
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