Boy, this one was fun! I'm really getting to like the Vulcan-Andorian conflict now. It's more complex than what was originally thought, as you'll see.
-Continuing the trend of ENTERPRISE GOING NOWHERE mentioned last week, the gang heads backwards to Paan Mokar, a class-D terraformed world between Vulcan and Andor, to mediate a hostage situation between them. Ah well, this should at least justify later episodes like "Horizon" shich clearly deal with matters closer to home.
-Paan Mokar was discovered in 2097 (obstensibly on the Vulcan calendar), but the two sides have been under a certain political compromise for quite some time, having almost gone to war over it twice in the past century. Andoria calls the place Weytahn, and they were responible for the terraforming.
-My GOD, Suzie Plakson has still got it. It's also reassuring to know that the Andorian Imperial Guard still condsiders femininity in their combat outfits to allow such plunging blue necklines.
-When you see the Andorian tabletop display, am I the only one to think fooseball?
-Enterprise heads to the objective by opening up her injectors to 110%, though they're rated to 120. Trip notes that they almost burn out the warp core just getting there. Oddly, they took LESS thant six days to get there (three to be precise) - when Soval shows up in person, he establishes that Shran landed his attack force that long ago.
-We see two Vulcan ships when Enterpirse arrives - the ones that look like the Turellian plague ships. V'Lar ("Fallen Hero") gets a nod here, having written a treatise on negotiation T'Pol thinks will find effective.
-Phlox was a medic in the Denobulan infantry. Looks like he's had some genuine military experience. Anyway, he zaps Archer before he goes down to mediate the dispute, due to some pathogen that the Vulcans are immune to. There's also some severe interference to comm frequencies, which I assume also mucks up a potential transporter solution to the hostage crisis.
-Archer and T'Pol have the field jackets on again.
-Soval agrees to go down in exchange for a hostage, but the shuttle is shot down before landing, presumably by hand weapons from multiple locations. One wonders about the effectiveness of hand weapons on shuttles - I can't think of one instance in recent memory when a shuttle was shot down by anything as small.
-Soval notices that T'Pol has gotten a bit of an "Earth accent". He also notes that had she stuck around San Franciso with him, she'd be assistant consul by now, perhaps even getting her own diplomatic assignment. One wonders how important an assignment Earth really is, if she could be fast-tracked as is presumed. Or is it jsut Soval suggesting that hanging around him would have gotten her far?
-Tactical Alert is back! Reed Alert isn't.
-The Andorian ships are pretty cool looking, sporting a look which might suggest future involvment in the Federation. I don't think they are re-uses of existing designs, and they seem detailed enough to merit future appearances. They're big, too - think of taking the front end of the Rodger Young from "Starship Troopers" and mating it to the back end of the Drazi ships from "Babylon 5", with more detail all around.
Mark
[ February 11, 2003, 10:06 PM: Message edited by: Mark Nguyen ]
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
This is just too funny...
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
I'd be laughing too, except that I'm currently being beaten senseless with the 2x4 of Hideous Irony.
Hey, aren't I pretty good about starting new epsiode tech review threads? Trust me.
Mark
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
No new ship names, huh? Neither Vulcan nor Andorian? Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Nope.
Mark
Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
I designed 24th century andorian warships (don't ask...) some months ago. Does anyone have pics from the episode? I'd like to see how close I am... Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
Why weren't Andorians more prominent in TNG and DS9? Can anyone think of any other instances where they were even seen (outside of TOS-movies) or mentioned?
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
IIRC:
"Journey to Babel" "Gamesters of Triskelion" [Commander Thelin (?) in TAS' "Yesteryear"] Several in TMP and TVH One of Lal's possible shapes in TNG (although it looked nothing like an Andorian, it was called that) And apart from mentions of "rogue Andorians" in TNG and several freighters in DS9, that's it as far as pre-ENT Trek goes. Good thing they brought them back. Now it's time to get the Tellarites involved Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
I agree...
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
I don't know why Andorians weren't seen in the TNG era. My guess is that their abscence is due to Roddenberry's original dictate that they wouldn't be bringing back lots of TOS species. Plus, at the time the makeup and prosthetics for working antennae were a little out of their budget.
Andorians only "appeared" in TNG "The Offspring" as one of Lal's possible appearances. The Andorian shown had no forehead ridges, a huge wig, and long antennae.
Mark
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
IIRC there was one Andorian on Risa in TNG Captain's Holiday.
Posted by David Templar (Member # 580) on :
Glad to know I wasn't the only one who thought that the Andorian ships looked like Drazi Sunhawks (lovechild of a Sunhawk and a Victory class destroyer, anyways).
Is it me, or is Enterprise getting really good at picking up lifesigns when they're not suppose to, whether because there's jamming or onboard some other ship far away or whatever.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
Back to the tech...
I got the impression that those Andorian particle beam weapons that fired on the shuttlepod were "artillery"-type devices. Granted, we never saw anything like them firing during the establishing shots of the colony, but I think it still makes sense -- and I think the beam looked a bit stronger than the usual hand weapons we saw.
Tucker mentioned Shuttlepod Two. In the darkness on the colony, I couldn't see enough to tell if the one that Archer crashed was actually ol' Number One. But if it is, it looks like they recovered the hulk from "Dawn" and got it flying again... I'm not sure what's worse: Voyager's endless supply of shuttles, or Enterprise's indestructible shuttles!
Those Andorian cruisers were SWEET! A very different, alien design while still showing some clear elements that could later be incorporated into the usual Starfleet designs. Too bad that the producers didn't think of that from the beginning, and have the NX-01 look less like the Starfleet ships of later on. (This isn't an Akiraprise rant specifically, but more of a wish for showing a distribution of design elements that got incorporated together under the Federation.)
At the end, I'm assuming that Shran decided to shut down the jamming field -- or at least part of it -- in order to let Archer communicate with the Enterprise. However, shouldn't someone on the ship have noticed before the call came through? Just wondering.
I couldn't resist calculating the warp speeds here -- if we assume that the ship was pulling Warp 5 for a full 3 days, the Enterprise could have been no more than 1.02 light-years away from the planet. Now, looking at the maps in "Star Charts" (which certainly aren't canon but were strictly tailored to ENT so far), the Enterprise was approximately 40 light-years away (rough estimate). At that distance, it would've daken 116 days to get back to Paan Mokar, or else the Enterprise would've had to travel at Warp 17 to make it in the allotted 3 days. (I guess that extra ten percent on the deuterium injectors really helps!)
Granted, the way most sci-fi has depicted space combat has never made much sense... but was it really necessary to cram all six ships into such a small volume of space like that? It was almost as bad as the shot from "The Defector" (though not quite).
Posted by CaptainMike (Member # 709) on :
the explanation given in licensed works is that the Andorian population has been declining as of the TNG era due to problems with their complicated reproductive process, requiring four-person marriages (as per a comment Data made in an episode about their marriages).. one of the plot points in the DS9 relaunch
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Which of course makes very little sense. Why would the population suddenly start to decline when it has been stable so far? From what little I've seen of the relaunch, the decline is due among other things to Andorians traveling more - but as the speed discussion above shows, this shouldn't matter in the slightest. Even if you are on the wrong side of Betelgeuse, you can be back home for dinner and procreation.
I very much doubt ENT will confirm the assumption of four Andorian sexes. I'm sure the writers are aware of the reference to a four-fold marriage, since they seem to be getting into this Andorian business with great enthusiasm. But I'm also convinced they'll treat it as a cultural quirk, not a biological one. (Or then they could have Shran confess to Archer that she actually has hots for him...)
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Fleet-Admiral Michael T. Colorge (Member # 144) on :
Hmm... an Andorian orgy seems promising.
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
So, who's gonna do 'caps of the Andorian ships?
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
I don't know about anyone else but I got the impression that Trip was just bluffing about the lifesigns...
Posted by TheWoozle (Member # 929) on :
I bet Tripp thought he was bluffing too. Hoshi only THOUGHT she detected the captain.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
I also think that Trip's "gunboat diplomacy" was a big bluff - obviously outnumbered by either side, and knowing that since the Vulcans had better weapons than they, that the Andorians must have something comparable. Or else he was betting on diplomatic repercussions - but would Earth be in a position to weight in against the other two?
Mark
Posted by TheWoozle (Member # 929) on :
Watching this episode, I got the distinct impression that the Andorians are a single planet with a few strategic colony outposts. The Vulcans, on the other hand, seem to have a number of colony worlds that have been established for a long time. I wonder if the Vulcans could conquer the Andorians if they wanted to? They seem pretty insecure to me.
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
I think the Andorians are just insecure...perhaps because their males are shorter than their females?
I am guessing the Andorians are most likely equally advanced as the Vulcans, or if not, still significantly more advanced than Starfleet becuase they can manage to hold off Vulcan forces to a stalemate.
I just think that it is funny that Earth is so weak technologically and so forth during the 22nd Century compared to what we have seen of the Vulcans, Klingons, Andorians, and presumably Tellerites, yet in 200 years manage to catch up with those races and meet or surpass them technologically. hmm...perhaps we owe this to Section 31...
Oh shit...perhaps I shouldnt open that door...I would HATE to see an episode in Enterprise involving those individuals. Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Bear in mind that the Vulcans are intentionally withholding technological advancements from the humans, just like humans do in later series because of the Prime Directive. Once the Federation forms, there will presumably be a complete exchange of technology among the members, bringing Earth up to Vulcan's level overnight.
Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
quote:Originally posted by Futurama Guy: perhaps we owe this to Section 31...
Oh shit...perhaps I shouldnt open that door...I would HATE to see an episode in Enterprise involving those individuals.
IIRC Sloan said that Section 31 was founded at the same time as the Federation.
Posted by J (Member # 608) on :
I didn't like this episode as much because of the technology. It was totally stupid to say they could not pinpoint the Captain's location... my butt. We can do that today.
Shuttle leaves ship, visual camera follows shuttle, telescope lense focuses on the shuttle as it goes down, camera sees shuttle go down, camera sees captain walk out....
If we have cameras that I can see the tree outside of my house from space...then we have cameras that can see the shuttle. And I've heard we have cameras that are more than capable of seeing people [identifying them might be hard, but if you followed the crew down you can tell who they are]. The Andorians were not blocking light... we could still see the surface, so a camera would have worked.
I just hate their use of technology--- What not use laser data transfer for communication when other signals are blocked? Yeesh....
Posted by TheWoozle (Member # 929) on :
Thta works if you are right over the target and watching it. if you have to find it, around the side of the planet, it gets harder. They COULD have been in stationary orbit, but that's a little farther out then standard (low) orbit.
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
I thought we had established that Shran had ECM going nuts over the planet? That'd screw near everything up - and the atmosphere could disrupt a laser beam.
Mark
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
quote:Originally posted by Spike:
quote:Originally posted by Futurama Guy: perhaps we owe this to Section 31...
Oh shit...perhaps I shouldnt open that door...I would HATE to see an episode in Enterprise involving those individuals.
IIRC Sloan said that Section 31 was founded at the same time as the Federation.
I know what Sloan said...but SOMETHING HAS to lead up to that organization deciding to form as it did.
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mark Nguyen: I thought we had established that Shran had ECM going nuts over the planet? That'd screw near everything up - and the atmosphere could disrupt a laser beam.
I presume Archer knows Morse code or some equivalent... he could've just pointed his phase pistol straight up and fired off his message, literally.
...And pray that he doesn't hit the ship. (I know, that's highly unlikely without some super-precise aiming beyond human abilities.)
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
quote:Originally posted by Spike:
quote:Originally posted by Futurama Guy: perhaps we owe this to Section 31...
Oh shit...perhaps I shouldnt open that door...I would HATE to see an episode in Enterprise involving those individuals.
IIRC Sloan said that Section 31 was founded at the same time as the Federation.
Actually, I'm pretty sure Sloan said it was included in the original Starfleet charter. (Although apparently, from our discussion in the Daedalus thread, you think he meant a different Starfleet... )
In any case, I probably still wouldn't advocate the appearance of Sec 31 in ENT. That storyline lay distinctly within DS9's purview. It wouldn't seem appropriate to me to go into it again on this show.
-MMoM Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
Pointing one's pistol in the air and firing would certainly give away their position. Which, as I gather, is exactly not what they wanted to do.
Mark
Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
Starting a new thead entitled "Section 31 and You" err..."Section 31 on Enterprise" probably wouldnt be too popular in this here forum but it is an interesting idea nonetheless...
AND IN NO WAY AM I IMPLYING SUCH A TOPIC or EPISODE THEME SHOULD EXIST!...
:::SARCASM:::
THANK YOU!!
goodnite everybody.... Posted by Spike (Member # 322) on :
quote:Actually, I'm pretty sure Sloan said it was included in the original Starfleet charter.
So, it was included in the Starfleet charter and founded to protect the Federation. Another point for the "Earth Starfleet =! Federation Starfleet" theory.
Posted by MrNeutron (Member # 524) on :
quote:Originally posted by TheWoozle: They COULD have been in stationary orbit, but that's a little farther out then standard (low) orbit.
Which raises the question of just what "standard orbit" is.
Over Earth, a low orbit can be as little as 120 miles above the surface, which a geosynchronous one is something on the order of 23,000 miles. That's a pretty significant jump, as the former is about 1/66th the planet's diameter while the latter is about 3x said diameter.
Posted by Ryan McReynolds (Member # 28) on :
There was an old Best of Trek article with an interesting idea about "standard orbit." It supposed that a standard orbit is a powered synchronous orbit at low altitudes. On the shows, the ships are never seen orbiting at synchronous height*, yet they are always within line-of-sight for transporters, communications, the rare orbital bombardment, etc. This is impossible that close to a planet, due to the way that simple orbiting works. In TOS, orbits often "decayed" rapidly when the ship lost power. Why would this happen? Obviously, power was required to keep the ship in its orbit... a "standard orbit" would then be a hovering operation over a certain spot, maybe the capital of an inhabited planet.
* Granted, the shows also show the ship visibly moving over the planet's rotation, but this is clearly a visual effects contrivance.
Posted by J (Member # 608) on :
I forgot about the atmosphere disrupting the laser... but still the ship following the shuttle with an external camera is well within the capabilities of our time.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
...or mabye the Enterprise was only brought in close enough to get the shuttle there and then resume a standoff-ish posture with the Vulcan ships: remember that Trip does'nt trust them to keep their word and not send in troops. ...or mabye he's just liking that center seat a little too much.
BTW: Reed founds Section 31 at the Federation's founding.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
Here's a great shot of one of the beautiful Andorian vessels from the ep, along with one of the Vulcan ships and the NX-01:
-MMoM Posted by Futurama Guy (Member # 968) on :
Awesome and at that, very high quality!! Hopefully we will get an eyeful of new ships like this that will be reused on a regular basis.
Any guesses on what those "pods" are on the "wings"? Do you think they are auxilary craft on the nacelles, or is it a single nacelled (in the aft/tail section) or are they the red-lit portion of the "wings" and the blue tail the impulse glow??
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
The Andorian design is pretty good, although perhaps a bit.. big.
So.. are there any ships that might have an Andorian background? Perhaps the holoship? Or the "Antares" freighter thing?
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
The front end is shares by most TNG shuttles and the runabout. There could be something there - Andorians are known as ship builders in the extended fandom.
I'm thinking that the wing pods AND the tail glowing thing are both nacelles - the tail things are grille-styled more than exhaust ports. I hope we'll be seeing these ships again, and soon!
MArk
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
I just realized.. with the demise of the Magazine, we'll likely never see proper schematics of any of these ships
[ February 17, 2003, 06:13 AM: Message edited by: Harry ]
Posted by Sorak (Member # 874) on :
quote: I presume Archer knows Morse code or some equivalent...
Sure! Remember Hoshi's dream from "Vanishing Point"? In the Captain's office, Ready Room, whatever they call it, Hoshi tried to get Archer's attention using Morse Code. Which means it's still in use a couple hundred years from now.
Posted by Vogon Poet (Member # 393) on :
The Andorian ship really looks like the White Star from this angle.
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
Lee, are you on crack or something? Any idiot can tell that the Andorian ship isn't blue/purple/green/... Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
It's in the same generic shape as a White Star, but it would have to be one that's had its shell removed, or something...
[ February 22, 2003, 10:52 AM: Message edited by: TSN ]
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
Now that I've got a chance to really study it, I think that the extreme tail section of the Andorian ship is actually a dual nacelle -- observe how there seem to be two distinct sections, one stacked on top of the other.
Those two pods mounted on the wings have an almost detached look to them, leading me to think that they're probably heavy auxiliary craft. You can see some blue glows on the rear of the left-side pod, on both sides of the pod. That might suggest some engine sub-assembly for that pod section -- meaning a detachable craft. If the Andorians are more aggressive, having a heavy troop landing craft or two would make a lot of sense for planetary combat. (And Masao had the same idea a while back. )
And though we can't see it well from this angle, the nose section reminds me mostly of a Danube-class runabout, for some reason...
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
The nose sections look a lot more like the Sydney-class or the Defiant's Type-10 shuttlecraft.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Mad]](mad.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
)![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
