This is topic Nemesis observation lounge models in forum Starships & Technology at Flare Sci-Fi Forums.


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Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
 
(Can anyone tell me why Netscape keeps logging me out?)

Here's the deal; I haven't seen any other topics on that one (al least a quick serach didn't turn up anything). I Rented the Nemesis DVD today to check out the deleted scenes and ended up watching that movie again (we should start a petition to convince TPTB to do a director's cut - remove the dune buggy, add the crew interaction; everyone says Baird is a bad director but a good editor, but after seeing the movie again, I strongly doubt that).

Have we ever had a definite listing of all the mysterious ships on display on the back wall of the newly decorated observation lounge? I heard rumors that there are just six models, like the old display that Picard smashed in FC, but this screencap clearly shows at least 9 models ("at least" because I assume there are six models on each side of the big viewscreen/terminal).
And I hear people say that the models on one side are just mirrored by the ones on the other side, so that we basically have two sets of Enterprises. Again, I'm pretty sure that's not the case.
Here's my capture (sadly the only one that gives a wide angle look at the back wall of that room).

Lounge: unedited

Here's a resized and modified version; I added the ships I could identify (or, at least, I tried to identify them).

definitely too many ships in there...

Going from left to right, while the upper one looks unfamiliar, the E-C is quite easy to recognize (round saucer, short nacelles), the bottom two on the left are nearly identical, with the closer to the screen obviously having more rounded nacelles. The other two on that display again look unfamiliar. On the right, we have, from bottom to top, E-B (again, that one's easy to figure out), E-D (oval saucer), and what could be the NX-01. Behind the saucer, between the nacelles, you see two reflections, indicating a possible catamaran hull.
Still missing is the E-E, which could be on the far right (if there's another display case) or one of the three unidentified vessels.

Here's another idea: Are we sure that these are supposed to be ships of the name Enterprise? Maybe it's just a generic display of the more important ship classes of Starfleet. Or a collection of all Starfleet flagships, Enterprise or not.

Feel free to bash me for the idea that the NX could be there, too.
 

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Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
 
Here's a light-adjusted version courtesy of Photoshop CS.



I respectfully disagree with your E-A ident. Looks like a Nova to me.

The one above that does appear to be the Ent C. The one to the right of the Nova looks like the Ent A.

On the right hand side, looks like we have, from top to bottom, Ent-Nil, Ent D, Ent B.

I for one can't imagine that the NX-01 wouln't be n there, especially with the mention of the U.S.S. Archer taking part in the rescue fleet. These are definitely not mirrored displays, so I'm guessing there are at least 9 different ships. And it doesn't seem like good interior design sense to not have 12 ships there.
 

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Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
 
But why would they put a Nova in there? I mean - it does resemble a Nova, but the saucer is hard to make out, so it could be the E-E. And if the NX is not the NX, my next best guess would be E-E, too.

And the "left side, second row, center spot" ship looks like a standard Excelsior. For whatever reason.
 

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Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
 
My argument for the Nova actually centers on the saucer. It clearly starts to taper inward. Also, there appears to be a raised area with a curved frontside on the top of the saucer, just like the raised area that the Nova's bridge sits inside. There also appears to be a phaser strip right below that raised area. I'll admit the nacelles don't look very Nova-ish though. I suppose this could in fact be the Ent E.

To add to the confusion (mine if not yours), there's no physical model of the Nova Class (except garage kits). They never built one for the show and ERTL has never made one.

The top one on the right, *could* be the NX... but I don't see any sign of the rectangular area on top of the saucer. And that nipple in the middle of the saucer... Dont' know. Looks like a Connie to me.
 

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Posted by Kazeite (Member # 970) on :
 
Well... I think that ship in lower left corner is definitely E-E herself.

Middle bottom looks like E-A to me, with E-nil above.



Upper right seems to be NX-01... The only questions is: couldn't they find smaller model to coat it in gold?
 

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Posted by Vice-Admiral Michael T. Colorge (Member # 144) on :
 
Let's ask Mike Okuda?
 

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Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
 
At the time the movie was made there was no NX-model either, as far as I know. Maybe the NX-model (or what is supposed to be the NX) is actually a kitbash of another model to create a "stand-in". It was never supposed to be seen up close, after all. Same for the other models. I'd even go as far as to say the FC-models were resurrected for this scene and whoever was responsible just used some existing models to fill up the other displays.

(Something I noticed that doesn't justify its own thread but also occured in First Contact, IIRC. In the shots where we see the windows, there's just the starfield outside. But looking at the Sovereign model, shouldn't the ship's nacelles be clearly visible from that point of view? They're nearly at the same level as the bridge.)
 

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Posted by Vice-Admiral Michael T. Colorge (Member # 144) on :
 
Just like TMP...
 

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Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov:
I'd even go as far as to say the FC-models were resurrected for this scene and whoever was responsible just used some existing models to fill up the other displays.

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code:

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???               ???                Ambassador?


Prometheus?       Constitution       Galaxy
(looks like there  
are 2 nacelles on
the right)

Nova              Constitution-refit  Excelsior

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Top-left may be Sovereign, judging by what appears to be a single nacelle and the engineering hull... Top-center may be a Constellation, judging by the saucer shape and size. Too bad those two can't be fully seen.

BTW, is the camera static during the whole scene, or is there a zoom or pan or anything that would show a different angle?
 

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Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
 
Upper right is an Ambassador - you can see the 'divit' in the top part of the nacelles.

Bottom left is a Sovereign and the bottom right an Excelsior.
 

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Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
 
While it sure does not match the models on display, if they needed nine ships to fill the display cabinents they could have used the aircraft carrier, space shuttle, NX-01, E-Nil, then A-E.

You cold substitute the Ringship for the carrier if you want to keep ir all space-related.

It looks to me like they just hosed a bunch of ERTL models with gold paint and hoped no one would notice: the D,A,C and B look to be the ERTL offerings (based on their size to each other- the "A" and "B" were never offered in scale with the others).
No idea where the NX-01 model comes from there though- mabye it's a proof-of-concept model for the CGI guys to look at.

The real question is "Why cant the Enterprise replace a few light bulbs in Generations and Nemesis?
I understand the concept of "dramatic lighting" but it looks like they're in a cave.
 

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Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
 
Which one is the NX-Ent? Not the top right.
 

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Posted by Kazeite (Member # 970) on :
 
You know, I'm starting to have my doubts as well - this top right starts to look like E-nil to me - we can clearly see long thin nacelle support pylon. There's no sign of catamarans, or Ambassador bent pylons.

On the same note, middle middle looks just like Excelsior class to me now... It's the same proportion - long engineering hull, long nacelles close to the body, small saucer... But two E-Bs?

This I think leaves middle left as E-C.
 

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Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
 
Notice that there are nametags below each ship. Somehow I doubt they just say something like "If you can read this, you're a geek" or "Fragile! Do not touch or smash with a phaser rifle".

Here's another possibility: What if those ships do not represent the finished product but rather concept versions of each Enterprise?

Anyway, here's a comparison of the two ships that could be Excelsiors: right-bottom, which is most certainly the E-B (you can almost see the additional impulse engines), and center-center, which looks like a normal Excelsior. Pay attention to the shape of saucer, cargo bay and nacelles.



Next is the left-bottom ship, which some suspect to be a Nova. After a closer examination, I came to the same conclusion. For comparison, I inserted a Sovereign, but you'll notice that there are at least three similarities between the ship and a Nova (the triangular shape of the saucer, the bridge dome and, most obvious, the nacelles).



Last ship is the NX. You can make out the second rim on top of the saucer, and what I suspect to be a catamaran-like hull is more obvious now.


 

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Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
 
So the middle bottom is the NX type?

These are definatly all different to the First Contact ships which were just the Enterprises.

And when Picard 'smashes his little ships' - I don't know if anyone notices - that what sorta snaps picard out - is not somuch Lily but the fact that after he smashes the ships - he notices he has broken the Enterprise-D... I thought that was touching.
 

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Posted by Kazeite (Member # 970) on :
 
No, I don't think that upper-right is NX-01.

For starters, I can't see saucer cutout - its edge appears to be uniformly smooth.

There's also no sign of catamarans on the saucer.
 

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Posted by machf (Member # 1233) on :
 
OTOH, if you look at this picture of an Ambassador-class ship you'll notice the similarities to the top-right ship... I don't see any twin hulls or indentation there either.
 

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Posted by machf (Member # 1233) on :
 
Forget about the Ambassador... I found this old picture from before Nemesis was released.

(I found it on a CD I burned first, then looked for the page on my bookmarks)

You can see that the top-right ship is a Constitution (NCC-1701, likely), and that there are another 3 ships further right...

And there's no Sovereign there because it's sitting in Picard's ready room...

Here Crusher partially blocks it, but believe me, that's it...

You can see it in full in a low-res video from back then (which I'm still trying to locate on the web). Or if anyone could provide more DVD captures...
 

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Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
 
Yep. That's definitely a TOS Connie.
 

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Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by machf:
Forget about the Ambassador... I found this old picture from before Nemesis was released.

(I found it on a CD I burned first, then looked for the page on my bookmarks)

You can see that the top-right ship is a Constitution (NCC-1701, likely), and that there are another 3 ships further right...

And there's no Sovereign there because it's sitting in Picard's ready room...

Here Crusher partially blocks it, but believe me, that's it...

You can see it in full in a low-res video from back then (which I'm still trying to locate on the web). Or if anyone could provide more DVD captures...

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Good catch: the modelo is the 22" ERTL cutaway of the E-Nil (not displayed as a cutaway) next down is the 1400th ERTL "D" and the bottom one is the 1000th scale ERTL Excelsior.

All just store-bought and sprayed gold.
 

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Posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov (Member # 742) on :
 
Thank god its not the NX. I thought it was, but what would be the logic behind having it in there?

On the other hand, we're now oficially at 12, and even if we would count every obscure ring ship and pre-federation vessel out there, there's no way we'd get 12 Enterprises.

And let me add that this must be a publicity photo (or yet another trimmed piece of footage) because we never get such an angle during the whole scene.
 

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Posted by machf (Member # 1233) on :
 
Ouch. That's not the Sovereign behind Crusher, I think it's the Hor'gahn (SP?) (no, it turned out to be an astrolabe). The Sovereign is in a different place, you can see it in the scene with Shinzon's hologram... it is contained in the clip labeled "IFILM Exclusive" on this page.

Edit: here is a very small shot of that scene.

Edit 2: here is a decent shot of the same scene.

Edit 3: And here is another scene with a closer look at the ship

[ March 25, 2005, 05:17 PM: Message edited by: machf ]
 

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Posted by HerbShrump (Member # 1230) on :
 
How does this display compare with the ship display from First Contact? Plenty of close ups of the ships.
 

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Posted by machf (Member # 1233) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Jason Abbadon:
Good catch: the modelo is the 22" ERTL cutaway of the E-Nil (not displayed as a cutaway) next down is the 1400th ERTL "D" and the bottom one is the 1000th scale ERTL Excelsior.

All just store-bought and sprayed gold.

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I wonder if that means that the Nova-class is also a store-bought model... and if so, who released it?

I guess Picard is fond of model starships... hmmm... and BTW, where did Picard's Stargazer model go?
 

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Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
 
All those ships - the 3x3 lot aren't in his Ready Room - it seems that a Sovereign is. You'd think he'd still have a Stargazer and now an E-D?

Just looking through those nice caps - if you keep going forward there is one of Shinzon and Remens on the Scimitar bridge. On the main door, and on some of the screens is a square-with-star motif... This looks like it maybe the Remen logo... Reverend - are you there?

Look here: (on the seat column) http://downloads.scifinews.de/file_8246.html

or here: http://downloads.scifinews.de/file_8244.html

or here: http://downloads.scifinews.de/file_8248.htm

and on The Viceroy's suit:

http://downloads.scifinews.de/file_8261.html

And this seems to be another Romulan symbol!!

http://downloads.scifinews.de/file_8271.html

What scene was this!?!

And another: http://downloads.scifinews.de/file_8279.html

Also - I always keep thinking to mention it - but doesn't ANYONE else remember the rumours for a new movie AFTER First Contact - that was to become Insurrection - there were a few movie ideas out there and one of them was about Picard actually being a Romulan or a clone in the Romulan Star Empire?

No one seems to remember this - it's basically the plot to Nemesis - 5 years early... there was a write up - I'm sure on one of the new sites around 1997 - when I first got on the web - probably Trekweb?
 

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Posted by Kazeite (Member # 970) on :
 
No idea.

So...

code:

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???               ???                 Consitution


Ambassador?       Excelsior           Galaxy

Nova/Sovereign?   Constitution-refit  Excelsior-refit

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quote:

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Originally posted by machf:
If there's a pre-refit Excelsior, why couldn't there be a Nova? (and there is no way a Sovereign could end up looking like a Nova; look at those pictures of the Sovereign model)
As I said, the models may be there just because Picard is fond of model starships...

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It's possible if they used the smaller 2500th SOverign from ERTL.

Andrew, the only Nova ever made is the 1400th Starcrafts version -that's FAR too small to be the ship in the display, and there was no studio model of the Nova.
That means that they'd have had to specialty create a large(ish) Nova model just for the display and that seems silly.
 

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Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
 
I agree... Jason.


 

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Posted by Kazeite (Member # 970) on :
 
Does it count as "taking advice"?
 

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Posted by machf (Member # 1233) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Jason Abbadon:
It's possible if they used the smaller 2500th SOverign from ERTL.

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quote:

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Andrew, the only Nova ever made is the 1400th Starcrafts version -that's FAR too small to be the ship in the display, and there was no studio model of the Nova.
That means that they'd have had to specialty create a large(ish) Nova model just for the display and that seems silly.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Resistance:
I got it! Its two sets of the six ships. Check out the deleted scenes called "Federation protocols"

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code:

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E-E   E-D     E-nil  E-E
E-C   E-B      E-D   E-C
E-A  E-nil     E-B   E-A

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quote:

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Originally posted by machf:
LOL!

The 3-in-1 kits you say are in 1/2500 scale, and as I said, the Sovereign, being the longest one, is barely 27cm long. They wouldn't have made too impressive a display in there...

Speaking of those kits, would you recommend just spraying them gold, or going through the trouble of painting each in its proper scheme instead?

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quote:

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Originally posted by AndrewR:
No one seems to remember this - it's basically the plot to Nemesis - 5 years early... there was a write up - I'm sure on one of the new sites around 1997 - when I first got on the web - probably Trekweb?

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quote:

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Originally posted by machf:
Well, they do look great, but if the price is what is said here, I think I'll have to pass, thanks...

I've been stripping the paint off the models of the first kit these days - man, I can't believe what a lousy job I did back then (it was about 10 years ago)! After removing the already thick coat of paint, I found another coat under it... At least I never placed any decals on them, since I was never satisfied with what I had done. I'll build them again, this time together with the ones from the second kit (which have been sitting on the shelf for a long time). And I'll use the airbrush this time...

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quote:

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Originally posted by Johnny:

quote:

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Originally posted by AndrewR:
No one seems to remember this - it's basically the plot to Nemesis - 5 years early... there was a write up - I'm sure on one of the new sites around 1997 - when I first got on the web - probably Trekweb?

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Yes, I remember that. There was an article in a sci-fi magazine showing the first screenshots from FC(which were really minature) and they mentioned something about the next film having a character called B9 and Romulans.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Topher:
Castrol Super Clean works wonders as well. And without the fumes!

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quote:

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Originally posted by Jason Abbadon:

Machf, do you have a a laser printer? SSM has free downloadable decals for the first Enterprise set (with all the windows for the Galaxy!) and several places online sell printable waterslide decals for printers.
Cheaper by far than buying all the sets.
I can even send you the Illustrator template I made for registries and the scans I have of the transporter emitters and hatches and such.

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Yes, I think I saw those on SSM... I don't own a color laser printer, but I have access to one. I suppose printing a single sheet of paper or two wouldn't be much of a problem if I ask...
 

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Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
 
Hmmm....PM me with your E-Addy and I'll send you some good files: I have a scan of an incredible Nebula sheet with more markings and better lifeboats than the SSM Galaxy version.
You'll still need the SSM version for the windows though.
 

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Posted by machf (Member # 1233) on :
 
Sorry for not answering earlier, but I've been very sick since last thursday...
Thanks for your offer. Just add a 'terra.com.pe' as the mail server...
 

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Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
 
Will do....hmmm.....I just got some new waterslide decal film: mabye I'll just print you a nice galaxy sheet (assuming this stuff works out) instead of sending the bulky files..
 

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Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
 
Hey look - they're auctioning off the gold models from First Contact.

Despite the item description, I'd bet real money these are gold painted plastic and not diecast metal.
 

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Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
 
So, now we know the models included the E-nil, the E-A and the E-C. 8)
 

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Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
 
Well....they re-did the display for Insurrection/Nemesis, and these are listed as the First Contact models.
 

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Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
 
Considering it also said they were from the "captain's quarters" and not the observation lounge, I'd also tend to question some of the other details provided. Such as whether these are actually the models used on set in the movie, or simply the same models as the ones they used in the movie that someone is trying to be clever with.
 

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Posted by Masao (Member # 232) on :
 
Gee, that auction page gives a pretty poor description of something they're hoping to sell for a few thousand dollars. How big are the damned things?
 

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Posted by Austin Powers (Member # 250) on :
 
1:1 scale I would hope
 

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Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
 
Noooo...think of the shipping costs, man!
 

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Posted by Austin Powers (Member # 250) on :
 
Who cares about "ship"ping?
If those models are any good, they should fly by themselves...
 

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Posted by machf (Member # 1233) on :
 
My thoughts exactly...!
 

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Posted by Hobbes (Member # 138) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by AndrewR:
And this seems to be another Romulan symbol!!

http://downloads.scifinews.de/file_8271.html
http://downloads.scifinews.de/file_8279.html

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quote:

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The big finds were the cases of Gold Enterprise’s from the last three TNG films. They all still look really good for the amount of abuse they got on stage. Here’s the story of how these golden eggs came to be on First Contact.

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