Enterprise Engineering - I can never work it out. I doesn't seem to be a symmetrical set. Look here
Firstly - does anyone have a plan of Engineering? They added to Engineering later in the series - there was an upper section.
To the left of this picture is a ladder up to another upper section that you can see a lot of in "The Changeling"... it is reminiscent or vice versa of the Defiant engineering set.
Secondly - I had a theory... that engineering is actually at the back of the nacelle or in the middle of it or something!?! Look down that tunnel with the tubes... Is that the red of the bussard collector!?!
I still think it's in the Engineering hull and that the long tube that we saw in TMP is similar to what this is depicitng. Somehow - although the set isn't symmetrical.
Every pic is broken. Can't even contact the person who did the site as they use a picture for their e-mail address.
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Funny, the site works all right for me.
There are many reasons to think that the Engineering Section or Engine Room of the TOS ship was significantly larger than the actual set. Asymmetry is one; another is the fact that the set is often completely deserted or nearly so, which wouldn't be plausible unless there were alternate places for the engineers to hang around.
Also, if we assume that Engineering consists of multiple areas the size of the actual set, we can explain the constantly changing arrangement of consoles and walls on the set: the room isn't actually being refitted, but we're seeing different parts of the mazelike Engineering Section in different episodes.
Here is one way to fit four engineering sets in the secondary hull; there could be two more below these, each pair connected by a tunnel, and the triangular tubing in each tunnel joining together a triplet of horizontal, ENT-style reactors (the "reactors 1 through 3" mentioned in "Catspaw"). The grey blob in the middle represents one of these reactors.
In any case, it would be aesthetically satisfactory if Engineering filled most of the secondary hull, with only minimal spaces left for other functions there (the shuttlebay and hangar aside).
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Interesting Idea. I like it - I suppose in TOS Engineering should be larger and bulkier than a 24th century engine room... although - I'm sure there are plenty of other areas of the E-D's engineering set. I liked in that CD-ROM program - Interactive Technical Manual - you could go and look up and down the warp core. I'm sure you could see a repeat of an 'entrance' for the decks above and below. Can't check - ran over the disc with the wheel of my chair years ago.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by Timo: Funny, the site works all right for me.
Timo Saloniemi
Have you been there recently?? Maybe you have cached images? I went there again and I've just got broken pictures everywhere. What browser? (that shouldn't make a difference though.)
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Yeah, I had been there recently, but on an entirely different workplace machine using Mozilla; I've got IE 6.0 at home, so I tested with caches turned off, purged, scrubbed, fumigated, and locked up good. No problems with either program or connection. And Greg himself was advertising his site in a TrekBBS thread this Saturday, apparently oblivious to any problem at his end.
It's a site worth a good spamming; if there is ever going to be a Grand Unified Theory about the Engineering set, this site will be necessary and sufficient source material...
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
The images did and do work just fine for me, and I'd never been to the site before I got to it through this thread (and that was after the claim that they didn't work).
Posted by Topher (Member # 71) on :
Same here. Although, there was one link towards the bottom that gave me a 404, IIRC.
Posted by Balaam Xumucane (Member # 419) on :
No problems looking at it (also it's a pretty great resource). Don't know why you'd be having trouble, Andrew.
It's a very valid concern/question. When I was young and first watching the series, I always assumed we were looking down either nacelle with the triangular vanishing "pipe chamber". Changes in the set could be accounted for being in the opposite nacelle. More recently, I have assumed that engineering is near the rear of the saucer and that we're looking out the impulse engines. It doesn't seem that this theory would hold water either. It does make perfect sense that the Engineering Room would be located somewhere in the Engineering Hull... I just don't know what that "pipe chamber" is for.
Posted by dbutler1986 (Member # 1689) on :
I don't think it could be in a nacelle, even though that red DOES look like a Bussard ramscoop. I mean, in TNG, when Troi was gonna kill herself from that 'psychic echo', she couldn't have the door open long - even with the forcefield - cuz the radiation was dangerous.
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
It's also a bit dubious that two engine rooms separated by the entire beam of the vessel, and only connected by those narrow pylons, would be collectively referred to as the "Engine Room".
And I'm not talking about grammatics here. The problem lies in those bits of dialogue where an intruder or other emergency is located as being in "Engineering", and our heroes dash to respond. One would HAVE to specify whether port or starboard nacelle engineering is meant in such cases, yet one never does.
OTOH, if the engineering areas are all clustered together (whether in the engineering hull or in the saucer), then it doesn't matter if they consist of multiple setfuls of rooms. An intruder control party would still be heading for a single facility that is defined well enough for their purposes: if there is access between the rooms, then the intruder can also use that access, so defining "port forward" or "starboard aft, upper level" would not be such a pressing story logic requirement.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by ChristopherT (Member # 1634) on :
quote:Originally posted by Timo: It's also a bit dubious that two engine rooms separated by the entire beam of the vessel, and only connected by those narrow pylons, would be collectively referred to as the "Engine Room". Timo Saloniemi
We know that the Enterprise was the first canon vessel to use primary and secondary hull seperation as a safety feature. So it stands to reason that everything in the "Primary Hull" would be replicated in some fashion in the "Secondary Hull." So it also reasonable that there must be at least two Engine Rooms, a "Primary" and a "Secondary." This was the correct terminology of the series and the production staff, Primary and Secondary hulls. I'm trying to think what the first episode would have been that used "Engineering hull".
I've always interpeted that picture of the ngine room behind the grill this way. The angled conduits are the Magnatomic Flux Tubes on the Impulse Engines. If there was a porthole at the back wall, you'd be looking down at the pylon, and the top of the shuttle bay. Looking out would put you about even with the warp nacelles.
Is it very FJ, yes! Does it work? Seems to, it's here in black and white.
Christopher
Posted by HerbShrump (Member # 1230) on :
A few scant years ago I concluded the red glowing "pipe" area must be the warp core. It makes sense when you look at the progress of technology to TNG. 100 years moved the warp core from behind a safety zone into a smaller, verticle area that could be walked around in a shrit-sleeve environment.
Oh, and the links worked for me, too. The first time I visited the site was yesterday. I'm using Firefox.
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
quote:We know that the Enterprise was the first canon vessel to use primary and secondary hull seperation as a safety feature. So it stands to reason that everything in the "Primary Hull" would be replicated in some fashion in the "Secondary Hull."
Except for the kaboom parts. If one hull is supposed to be safer than the other, it's not gonna feature the kaboom parts.
To be sure, we don't really know if separation was a safety feature, nor that it happened between the primary and secondary hulls. We hear that it is possible to jettison nacelles and depart in the "main section", but that section could mean everything but the nacelles. Other references to jettisoning or separation or ejection are even more ambiguous, none suggesting that the saucer would be an ejectable component.
But of course any sensible person accepts that the saucer was ejectable. Or dies. (Eventually, anyway.)
And as far as I can tell, neither "primary vs secondary hull" nor "engineering hull" are onscreen TOS terminology: they seem to premiere in TNG first season. The only TOS word we hear is "main section", but we don't know what it refers to. ("Engineering section" is also used, but clearly refers to the set of rooms within the ship, not one of the two hulls.)
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by The Ginger Beacon (Member # 1585) on :
I can dig an enginering complex, as Timo's drawing suggests. I also think that there would be some sort of 'Impulse Control Room' at the back of the saucer, which may be a smaller version of enginering, and could serve as a sort of backup, but what would be the point of having a warp core in the Impulse Enginering?
Another thing, wasn't there an episode of (cover your eyes children) TAS that showed a sort of tubey thing that looked abit like a warp core?
While I'm at it: what about the refit. Did they actualy remove the warp reactor, and replace it with the intermix chamber we see in TMP, freeing up all that space to fill with cargo , or did they just reuse the girders from the 1701 shell, and consider that enough to still call the ship Enterprise?
IHO they didn't consider the ability of fans to nitpick when they made that movie. Or most of the rest of Trek, now I think about it.
Posted by ChristopherT (Member # 1634) on :
quote:Originally posted by Timo: Except for the kaboom parts. If one hull is supposed to be safer than the other, it's not gonna feature the kaboom parts.
To be sure, we don't really know if separation was a safety feature, nor that it happened between the primary and secondary hulls. We hear that it is possible to jettison nacelles and depart in the "main section", but that section could mean everything but the nacelles. Other references to jettisoning or separation or ejection are even more ambiguous, none suggesting that the saucer would be an ejectable component.
But of course any sensible person accepts that the saucer was ejectable. Or dies. (Eventually, anyway.)
And as far as I can tell, neither "primary vs secondary hull" nor "engineering hull" are onscreen TOS terminology: they seem to premiere in TNG first season. The only TOS word we hear is "main section", but we don't know what it refers to. ("Engineering section" is also used, but clearly refers to the set of rooms within the ship, not one of the two hulls.)
Timo Saloniemi [/QB]
As far as I know, Matt Jefferies wanted all the Kaboom parts in the nacelles. Treknically, to me that would jive with Greg Mandell's Main Propulsion Unit blueprints, Sheet 1 of 1. There is transfer of data and plasma for power generation between the nacelles and the ship itself, but the real dangerous stuff is out in the warp nacelles where they can be jettisoned if there is a problem.
I don't have access to the DVD's for TOS. I do have all the episodes for TOS, TNG and the motion pictures in text transcript form. I'd like to look through all the episodes and see what they did use on a regular basis.
Christopher
Posted by Balaam Xumucane (Member # 419) on :
Sort of neat.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
That site is ODD - It won't work at home, but it does work at uni.
OK I found on the front page of the site that somehow systems with Norton have ""HTTP REFERER"" set. I can't find it in the program. Can anyone find it - if so can you tell me where to look for the section to 'turn it off'?
