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Posted by SwSmith (Member # 1319) on :
 
Hello! Does anyone have any pictures or drawings of the USS Marco Polo NCC-7219 and the USS Caspian NCC-5507 from the DC comic book "Thin Ice" TNG Vol.2 or know where I can find some.

Thanks!
 
Posted by Pensive's Wetness (Member # 1203) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by SwSmith:
Hello! Does anyone have any pictures or drawings of the USS Marco Polo NCC-7219 and the USS Caspian NCC-5507 from the DC comic book "Thin Ice" TNG Vol.2 or know where I can find some.

Thanks!

No pics right off but leads at least to your search... [Big Grin]
 
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
 
Side views at http://topher.pleh.net/tosmovie/ ...

The Caspian should be much like USS Troy at the lower part of the page.

Timo Saloniemi
 
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
 
Nice page Timo, but it's incomplete. I can't find the USS Cuttenpaste anywhere there! 8)

Also, I know the name USS Trial is canon, but is the registry and/or class?
 
Posted by Dat (Member # 302) on :
 
More than likely Trial was the Miranda that we saw.
 
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
 
One of the (amazing) guys at the STSTCS boards made these up for me:
http://www.geocities.com/trekcross/Fed_size_comparison_BW.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/trekcross/Kling_size_comparison_bw.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/trekcross/Rom_size_comparison_bw.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/trekcross/Misc_size_Comparrison_BW.jpg

Damn cool stuff.

Timo- ya wanna color these? That would rock.
 
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
 
"Currently unavailable"...

Besides, I didn't do the page I linked to. It even says "Topher" in the link. [Wink]

But I love to color starships. Now where did I put my whitish-bluish crayon box...?

Timo Saloniemi
 
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
 
Ha-haaaah! You didn't say anything about the INSIDE of the ship, did you? Here's a couple pics I scanned ages ago of the Marco Polo's bridge:

 -
 -

Mark
 
Posted by Chris (Member # 71) on :
 
Yes yes, that page is mine. There's actually a version of the Marco Polo done by Reverend on the ASDB website, I think...

And that whole bit about the Trial is just a little brain blurb on my part...
 
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
 
A lot of those Starfleet designs on both pages make my colon itchy. Also, the one that Jason posted has some serious "WTF, MATE?!?" scaling issues.
 
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
 
No- that's the official FASA scales at work- I guess the notion was that the standard nacelle from a connie refit could be scaled down to accomidate smaller starships Just as they did in TNG).

Takes some getting used to though.

The stuff at the far right is NOT supposed to be in scle with the starships- the upper right are the huge Spacedock structures and the bottom right are the small cutters and monoitor craft.
 
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
 
Some of the FASA designs make 0.82 ounces of sense if you scale them by the cut/paste saucers and nacelles. Some make sense if you assume two scales for each item, 100% and 50%, and pretend that the 50% solutions look slightly different. Some just don't.

I still sort of like the Andor, and perhaps the Chandley, despite the pylons...

And the Marco Polo is pretty enough to look at. In which context in the comic is she defined to be a Challenger class vessel? Is there any wiggle room?

Timo Saloniemi
 
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
 
Nope. At one point Troi is looking up the bio of the Marco Polo's CO. It quite clearly states on the computer screen that she's a Challenger-class starship.

Mark
 
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
 
http://www.trekships.org/challenger-c.jpg

Here's the Challenger. This pic is from Bernd's site, although the URL says "trekships.org."

Don't have any pics of the Caspian, though (I don't have the comic, either, or I'd make 'caps).
 
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
 
Meh. Find a Larson-class destroyer, swap the nacelle and saucer for a movie-era equivalent, and off you go.

http://vintagestarships.tripod.com/contentpages/larson.htm

Mark
 
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
 
Er...huh? they're nothing like each other- that comic-book Challenger is just a Constelation with a secondary hull instead of the lower pair of nacelles.
 
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
 
Jason: I believe Mark was describing what the Caspian looked like, not the Challenger.

BTW, the Larson class is my favorite FASA design, mostly because the arrangement makes sense. I'm glad they used the design in the comic.
 
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
 
Hmmm...the design sorta makes sense: Masswise, they'd be better off with one central pylon over the two-pylon arrangment they have, but it works great in a TMP-era refit version.
Just place the starboard and port phaser banks on the nacelle pylons for twice the coverage.
You have to add in two Miranda-style shuttlebays at the ship's rear as well- otherwise the extra space added is just wasted (and a smaller ship- a destroyer- sure does not need more crew capacity).

On the TOS (FASA) version, the pylons are like a big empty bilboard on the side of the ship- I can just picture Orion kids tagging it up at every civillian port...

I made a model of a "Lost Era" Larson class and posted it a while back- it had the central pylon and twin nacelles of a Constelation class with an updated Larson-ish hull (saucer-mounted torpedo launcher added as well).
 
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
 
Incidentally, where does the name Trial comes from? My limited searching hasn't found a place called Trial; the only references mainly seem to come from various kinds of trial. If it's a trial as in a legal proceding, what other names might there be? The USS Deposition? Or maybe the USS Competition or the USS Let's Just toss A Coin?

Perhaps the full name of the ship is the USS Trial By Jury, opening up the possibility of there being a USS Law & Order, a USS Criminal Intent, and a USS Special Victims Unit!

Or maybe it's the USS (The) Trial, meaning there could be a USS Metamorphosis. Such literary precedents however mean there might be a USS Da Vinci Code or a USS Little Engine That Could, and eventually even a USS Vulcan Love Slave.

One interesting thing I did find was that a "trial" is an adjective for something of which there are three (like "dual" for two). Perhaps the ship was a pregenitor of the Prometheus multi-vector assault concept?
 
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
 
It could be named for some unknown Mr./Ms. Trial.
 
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
 
Depends - ever encountered the use of the name Trial as a surname? I haven't, but that's not to say there aren't, or might not be in the future. But it makes me wonder, why they chose that name in the first place for a starship mentioned in dialogue, or in an Okudagram or however it cropped up. . .
 
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
 
quote:
You have to add in two Miranda-style shuttlebays at the ship's rear as well- otherwise the extra space added is just wasted (and a smaller ship- a destroyer- sure does not need more crew capacity).
OTOH, these single-nacellers have traditionally suffered from the lack of a recognizable "engineering section", even though evidence from other ship types suggests that the warp powerplant generally warrants a whole "section"... Since the Larson pylons are razor-thin, they can't be argued to house this machinery like the Saladin fin might, so IMHO the aft hull extensions are the logical place for this stuff. (A shuttlebay or five can be added if need be, but since the Saladin makes do without one...)

As for USS Trial, how did we learn that such a ship existed? I mean, I trust it's not visible onscreen, so some backstage source must have been involved.

Trial... Soval... Neral...

Timo Saloniemi
 
Posted by HerbShrump (Member # 1230) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Lee:
Depends - ever encountered the use of the name Trial as a surname? I haven't, but that's not to say there aren't, or might not be in the future. But it makes me wonder, why they chose that name in the first place for a starship mentioned in dialogue, or in an Okudagram or however it cropped up. . .

Yahoo people search lists 135 entries for "Trial" in the United States.
http://phone.people.yahoo.com/py/psPhoneSearch.py?srch=bas&D=1&FirstName=&LastName=Trial&City=&State=&Phone=&Search=Phone+and+Address+Search
 
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
 
Mentioned on the Star Trek website. Which makes its canonicity suspect at best. Why single out one ship in reference to a much-reused FX shot?

Nice one, Herb. Perhaps it was a Trek crew/staffer's maiden name, or something. . .
 
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
 
The funny thing about that picture from startrek.com, is that the GCS is most definitely the U.S.S. Venture, and the two Excelsiors (if they are the CGI versions) are most likely both labeled as whatever CGI Excelsior was previously used. Even if they were the physical model, it's doubtful that they'd be re-labeled for this shot.

The Miranda class ship (that coincidentally is cut out of the left side of that picture) has been identified as the Trial in the past, because someone once stated that it's a Reliant model kit, with the letters T, R, I, A, and L used from the original RELIANT. How true this staement is is anyone's guess.
 
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
 
Those wouldn't likely be CGI Excelsiors - DS9 wasn't heavy into CG by that point, and all the other elements were physical models too. They must have been stock models, since the Excelsior model had by that point been converted into the Enterprise-B.

I think the first CGI Excelsior (after the rough one built for Generations, which wasn't used again) showed up the following year to complement the new 3-foot Excelsior model built for VOY "Flashback". That model showed up as the Malinche on DS9 the same year, and subsequently in mixed and then CGI shots for various fleet scenes in both series afterwards.

Mark
 
Posted by MattC (Member # 1391) on :
 
The CGI Excelsiors were completed for the large space battles in DS9 which occured prior to the episode in question. They're not paerticularly accurate and have extremely chunky saucer sections.

M
 
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
 
Yes, but it blows up nicely.
Best (non-hero) ship deaths ever.
 
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
 
But if we're talking about the "Way of the Warrior" shot with the Venture, two Excelsiors and a Miranda around DS9, that was done before any large-scale fleet battles on that show, at least any involving anything except the Defiant. The "really big space fights" in DS9 to that point were basically:

-The Wolf 359 prologue
-runamouts versus "lightly armed" Maquis fighters
-Odyssey + runabouts versus Jem'Hadar fighters
-Defiant versus Jem'Hadar fighters
-Defiant versus Cardassians
-Defiant versus Cardassians + Romulans versus Jem'Hadar

Except for the first (which was the re-labelled 8-foot Excelsior model), I don't think any Excelsior class ships were ever really seen to that point on DS9. I'm not discounting a weak CG model standing in for that shot, but it does look unlikely.

Mark
 
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
 
How many times was this scene shown? Obviously, the initial scene was at the end of "Way of the Warrior," but how many times and in which episodes was it used as stock footage?

P.S. If no CGI was used in "Way of the Warrior," then it's quite possible that plastic model kits or lo-rez background models were used. for this scene.
 
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
 
WOTW used a couple of Playmates VorCha toys that had been fitted with lights for the doomed ships flanking the NegVar.

No idea o the others though- I think the K'Tinga may have been CGI.
 
Posted by Dukhat (Member # 341) on :
 
No, the K'Tingas were plastic model kits, because they needed to be so that they could be blown up without damaging the studio model. I remember reading about that somewhere.
 
Posted by Mikey T (Member # 144) on :
 
No, there was an interview where both the models and the Playmates models were used as filler ships, some of which were fitted with explosives to blow up nicely. Either way they went through a lot of BOP's.
 
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
 
Weren't Hallmark ornaments also used?
 
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
 
No. The ornaments are waaaay tooo small for filming.
 
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
 
I thought the little K'Tingas were blown up by blowing up the ornaments in the background.
 
Posted by cptmkb (Member # 709) on :
 
Back to topic, I illustrated these vessels a few years back

USS Marco Polo, NCC-7219


USS Caspian, NCC-5507


sorry it took so long to reply.
 
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
 
We are the champions - my friends
And we'll keep on fighting - till the end -
We are the champions -
We are the champions
No time for losers
'Cause we are the champions - of the world
 
Posted by cptmkb (Member # 709) on :
 
um. yay!
 
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
 
The top one is the DC comics version of the Challenger class and the lower one seems a variant on the FASA Larson class.

No idea on the whole Queen tribute moment there...
 


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