The recent rewatching of Star Trek in a multitude of forms, including The Original Series, the Next Generation, Deep Space Nine, and Voyager have prompted a number of random questions, none of which really warrant their own thread, but which might stimulate some interesting conversation, nonetheless.
Of course, at the moment, all but the most recent escape me, though I'm sure the others will return to me, as well as new ones.
Tonight's random question comes courtesy of TNG: "Brothers"
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Shouldn't the Enterprise's main computer be able to deduce that if Captain Picard is giving orders from the main bridge, but Captain Picard is actually located in Main Engineering, then, ya know, maybe you should not automatically turn over command codes?
How much, if any, holistic deductive leeway does the Enterprise's (or any 24th century computer) have dealing with logical problems that should raise some very clear red flags?
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
Not as much as it did in S1.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Doesn't the computer usually locate a person by means of their comm badge? If so, it shouldn't necessarily assume that Picard's badge = Picard, particularly if it thinks there's an emergency.
Of course, one could argue that important commands like that should require some sort of biometric identification, not just voiceprint. After all, just on that one ship, there were at least two crew members who were able to take over by simulating the captain's voice.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
er...who's the second one? Wesley with his toy? Wes did not have that uber-long command code to go with his voice simulator.
It's a good point though- and a problem obviously not addressed untill at least DS9 were the bloody Cardies used the same sort of trick with O'brien's voice...to steal torpedos no less!
Posted by Da_bang80 (Member # 528) on :
I got a question about the Holodeck:
How does it simulate distance, as in if two people walk in start a program, then one person walks a couple dozen meters away, how does the holodeck make it look like the person is in the distance without them walking into a wall?
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Each user gets his own personal forcefield- and inertia manipulation field -based "treadmill" that provides the sensation of motion when the user is at standstill, or the sensation of immobility when the user is being whisked to a convenient corner of the holodeck.
Also, each user gets a holowalled "booth" erected around him or her, to fool his or her visual, aural and if need be olfactory and tactile senses.
It is then trivially easy to project the image of a departing user B on the booth of user A, and of a left-behind user A on the booth of user B.
A whole baseball field could then be simulated within one of Quark's holosuites. Or, as is more probable, within three of them, all integrated even if physically quite separate.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Da_bang80 (Member # 528) on :
Thanks for clearing that up. That's been buggin me for so long.
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Probably the holodeck cuts corners wherever it can. It won't use the personal "booths" if there's enough room to actually provide physical distances. If the user is looking at a chair, it's probably just an image; if he sits on it, it becomes a forcefield construct with some rough texture where the user's buttocks rub on it; if he has a fetish about licking chairs, only then will the holodeck bother to replicate some realistic surface, complete with detailed texture, tastes and smells.
Also, pre-"11001001" Federation or Starfleet holodecks may have been less advanced in this respect, relying more extensively on distant holo-imagery and less on personal "booths".
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Captain Boh (Member # 1282) on :
If nothing else, the old model holodecks were certanly less adept at keeping rocks from hitting the walls.
Posted by OnToMars (Member # 621) on :
What I still don't get is how the computer could possible adjust quickly enough for it to be a seamless transistion.
So, okay, these computers are infinitely faster than anything we can currently conceive of, but even they have a noticable render time when they replicate food or drinks in the replicator. If a person were to suddenly sit in a chair and then just as suddenly turn around and move to lick it, how could the computer possibly anticipate those actions fast enough to make it unnoticable?
If you were to go into a holodeck and knew which items were fully replicated and which were image projection, would you be able to discover a crack in the illusion if you ran around as fast as you could, touching as many things as you could?
Posted by bX (Member # 419) on :
Pre-emptive multitasking.
Posted by WizArtist II (Member # 1425) on :
It could be a proximity thing. The closer an object is to you, the more complex the modeling so that anything whithin reach is highly detailed while everything outside that perimeter is just a visual. As you move the focus shifts with you so that everything outside a 5'circle around you is just a hologram.
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
Also, Starfleet gear probably represents the bottom of the barrel: the military has never appreciated the latest in entertainment electronics...
The food replicators and transporters need not have accelerators, silencers and other doohickeys, so they don't have those. The holodeck needs those for a convincing illusion. And somebody like "Ardra" needs even better gear so that the illusion can be created on location... It's all doable with UFP technology, but Starfleet sees no point in doing it just for Earl Grey's sake.
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
quote:Originally posted by bX: Pre-emptive multitasking.
*snicker*
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Now, now, he's just establishing a broad-based customer-focussed synergistic solution.
Posted by OnToMars (Member # 621) on :
quote:Originally posted by Timo: Also, Starfleet gear probably represents the bottom of the barrel: the military has never appreciated the latest in entertainment electronics...
Except that the military always has the forefront of the technological edge. It was Starfleet that probably invented the replicator in the first place, or certainly made most if not all of the major refinements to it. Headquarters would certainly make sure that their brave explorers would have only the very best when charting the deep unknowns of space for years at a time.
Perhaps Earl Grey isn't important enough for an instantaneous render, but what about medicines? I'm pretty sure the Tech Manual (which may or may not be confirmed by dialogue) that Sickbay keeps a stock of medicines pre-replicated for use in life and death situations. Have we ever seen the render time in a Sickbay replicator, particularly in an emergency?
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
The forefront of ruggedized hardware, sure. But such things come at a price. Starfleet replicators, for instance, would, one imagines, emphasize working when everything around them is exploding over various aesthetic issues.
Posted by Lurker Emeritus (Member # 1888) on :
There was a time when the military was cutting edge, but today you will find far more powerful computer processors and frequently far more versatile and advanced manufacturing techniques in private hands rather than operating under government funded agencies.
The state of the art today is built into consumer products. The most state of the art weaponry contains computer components which are years out of date by commercial standards. This lag time only looks set to increase in the future.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Thats only true of common-use items. When yo get into really high-tech, military always has the very best shit years in advance- watch that show "From Tactical to Practical" sometime. As example, a cutting-edge military satelite's resolution is said to be three times better than anything NASA has at it's disposal. But we;ve always been best when thinking of new ways to kill each other. Fear and hate a powerful motivators.
Posted by Lurker Emeritus (Member # 1888) on :
NASA has a tighter budget than the US Airforce, and NASA doesn't need or want to read your drivers licence from low orbit. NASA just wants to look at weather patterns, geological features, ocean currents and wave formations on the sea surface etc. For many such applications, NASA and similar agencies will use millimeter wave radar. So they're not that bothered about achieving that kind of resolution in the visual spectrum as this would only come at the expense of other equipment on the satellite, and would drain the budget from other projects. I'm afraid that example doesn't stack up. Makes a nice soundbite for a documentary though.
Among other examples of lag time resulting in market obsolescence of military hardware are the Type 45 AAW destroyers, will use an operating system based on Windows 95.
The Eurofighter uses components that were state of the art in the 80's, which is when the design freeze occured. Even Tranche 3 won't improve too much on this situation, as you can't change out too many of these components without building a new plane.
The F-35 will come into service post 2010, but when it does so numerous essential components will already be obsolete in market terms.
Granted, most of this covers only computer components and software, but by the same token, this is the area in which the advantage lies. Both sides can be similarly equipped, but if one side has a combat management system that is ten times better, the odds are immediately stacked in their favour.
Posted by Guardian 2000 (Member # 743) on :
quote:Originally posted by Timo: A whole baseball field could then be simulated within one of Quark's holosuites. Or, as is more probable, within three of them, all integrated even if physically quite separate.
The possibilites for safe sex are tremendous. You could sleep with a real person yet never touch them.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
I like the way you think.
Posted by Timo (Member # 245) on :
...But if the resolution of the simulation is sufficient to mimic her taste, won't it be sufficient to mimic her Chlamydia trachomatis as well?
Timo Saloniemi
Posted by HerbShrump (Member # 1230) on :
Biofilters
Holodeck Safety Locks.
Besides, it would only be holographic clap. And holographic material cannot exist outside the holodeck.
(except when called for by the plot/script)
Posted by Lurker Emeritus (Member # 1888) on :
lol holographic clap!
Is that an optional extra for added realism?
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
Added realism? They're on a fucking exploratory starship, daily facing the dangers of all sorts of alien nasties from the microscopic to the macroscopic, yet they just can't get into their chosen medium of recreation unless it involves a simulated STD?
Posted by WizArtist II (Member # 1425) on :
SOoooo, if you watch porno long enough you can catch Visual Aids?
Posted by OnToMars (Member # 621) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lee: Added realism? They're on a fucking exploratory starship, daily facing the dangers of all sorts of alien nasties from the microscopic to the macroscopic, yet they just can't get into their chosen medium of recreation unless it involves a simulated STD?