This is topic They say plagiarism is the highest form of flattery: in forum Starships & Technology at Flare Sci-Fi Forums.


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Posted by Treknophile (Member # 1869) on :
 
http://wiki.maquis.com/w/Nova_Assault

We're flattered - but also upset. We know that in the digital information age respecting a copyright (or even an artist) is a relative thing. Hey, if Sony and other music companies can't keep their cd content off the free-download web, why would we expect better? Frankly, I thought that a Trek fan - someone who has been waiting for years for a product like this to enjoy - would respect the years we spent creating it, respect the thousands of dollars we've invested in hardware and software, and respect our reasonable expectation for remuneration.

We'd only be 2/3 as upset if they had at least given us credit for the design. I understand that he's altered them to fit their fan club, but at least use our prints as a guide and draw your own with the changes you want to make. We expected fans to use our plans in their role-playing game etc, but to redistribute our prints to the public without asking permission just seems rude.

Those scans don't do the plans justice by the way, the colours are a mess and the quality is not even close to what the real printed ones are. The Maquis fan club should reduce the image size, and give credit instead of blatantly removing our company name and copyright information from them.

Quite a few fans have asked us why we haven't printed the Sovereign (it's designed and in our hard drives), or moved faster on the Akira. This is part of the reason.

If any of you are members of this site, you might want to let them know that this is uncool. In fact, even if you're not members, you might let them know...
 
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
 
Or YOU could let them know as the copyright holder...of sorts. I'd be more likely to berate them for their idiotic site concept.

On the other hand, i was curious to see what the plans looked like, so...

How did they do it anyway? You don't have downloadable whatevers on the SDP site.
 
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Treknophile:
... but at least use our prints as a guide and draw your own with the changes you want to make.

You're really overestimating how much work people are willing to do for something cool.

If I were you, I'd raise a holy stink. Legally, there's probably nothing you can do, seeing as the Nova is Paramount's intellectual property in the first place. But you can make them feel really bad about themselves.

Your plans are super-cool and I'd be furious too. There's no excuse for them taking your name off of them and passing them off as totally their own work.
 
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
 
Yeah you can try and guilt them, but I wouldn't hold your breath. As Aban says none of us have the rights to anything we do that involves Star Trek and I've lost count of the times I've seen my work mutilated on some halfwit's RPG site.
 
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
 
Also, consider your target "market"... Did you really expect that people would pay for something like this? The vast majority of the material out there is completely free, because most people who create works in this genre do it for their love of the show, and share it because they want to share their love of Trek with other fans.

You also forgot one of the primary rules of supply and demand: price is determined not only by the cost of making an object (time, effort, materials, etc.), but also by what the consumer is willing to pay. And for the vast majority of people out there (myself included), that price is exactly $0.00! Because if I got a chance to look at the charts, I'd probably spend a grand total of five or ten minutes glancing over them, and then never look at them again. That's not worth money to me.

Now, that doesn't mean I'm endorsing copyright theft (I completely agree that it's wrong, even in this case), nor do I challenge your right to distribute your work in whatever means you see fit. I just feel, personally, that your attitude seems a bit misplaced for your chosen fandom. And if you really wanted to be able to charge for such a creation, you should've designed your own completely original starship to make deck plans for, instead.

(For the record, I've had multiple pages from my site ripped off from time to time and posted elsewhere, without any credit given. I agree that it's galling, and I don't envy your position much at all. But if you didn't want people to steal your work, then you never should have shared it in the first place, much less deluded yourself into thinking people would pay for it.)
 
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
 
I saw this over at SSM and assumed it was you posting the pics...untill I read some of the responses.

Totally sucks- you should contact their ISP provider and inform them about the stolen content: that usually gets it yanked (though it, of course, depends on who the provider is).
THIS is the part that should burn your ass.
quote:
Everything on this site is Copyright 1994-2006 by Maquis Forces International, unless specified in the Bibliography/Resources sections of a page. All other copyrights are property of thier respective owners.


I had no idea bout your making a soverign- I'd buy that set in an instant- on one condition.
It has to include bathrooms!
 
Posted by Johnny (Member # 878) on :
 
Since it's a wiki, why not just register an account and remove them?
 
Posted by Treknophile (Member # 1869) on :
 
We would really much rather keep it civilized. If he had come to us in the first place, we probably would have allowed it (although in a smaller resolution). I'm sending one of the officers an email requesting that they contact us immediately.

Minutiaeman, indeed we have considered our target market. Personally, I would have sold my sweet girlish laughter to afford stuff like this if someone else had done it first.

We are hoping that true fans of deck plan art will still want the hardcopies - of as many of the sets as possible. However, if this site distributes Intrepid, I may just go thermal.
 
Posted by Treknophile (Member # 1869) on :
 
From: Strategic Design Publications, a Division of Quantum Reality Inc.
To: Webmaster and/or President of 'Maquis Forces International' fanclub.
scummings@maquis.com

We have noted your use of our product (U.S.S. Nova Deck Plans). As fans ourselves, we were somewhat alarmed that you would blatantly post (and alter) large images of our copyrighted material without our written permission. Rather than create a spirit of animosity between us (both privately and visible to Trek fandom), we ask that you email our senior partner David Schmidt to discuss these matters. We are hopeful that we can reach a compromise which will be mutually beneficial. This would involve your acknowledgment of Strategic Design Publications as the creator of the original material (with our logo prominently displayed), notification that you have modified our original product for your own purposes, as well as an large active link on your website to our commercial website. We would also require your written agreement not to post copies of other sets of deck plans we create.

Frankly, we see this as a win-win scenario. You get to keep 'your' modified plans for your players to use as a gaming platform, and we get free advertisement, as well as your assurance that you will not pirate any additional product. More importantly, we keep a spirit of cooperation, good will, and fellowship between us - which we consider one of Mr. Roddenberry's lasting legacies.

As an aside, we are flattered that you 'selected' our product as the platform for your game. It was one of our hopes when we began this enterprise that role-playing gamers would do just that - with various products we will create. However, we would prefer that they purchase them from us.

Please respond quickly.

David Schmidt
Tim Palgut
Strategic Design Publications, a Division of Quantum Reality Inc.
 
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
 
Sounds fair and reasonable to me.
 
Posted by Mark Nguyen (Member # 469) on :
 
Speaking as a corporate account manager and guy who regularly negotiates with all sorts of people, this is okay, though not what I'd have done. Personally, I'd START a dialogue first, and then make the proposal after you've gotten to know the guy, thus putting everything on the most amiable footing while still keeping control of the relationship. You have the moral and pseudo-legal high ground in the first place, as the creators of the artwork. Thus, you don't need to go in all at once.

Mark <---At work, thinking like I'm at work.
 
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
 
If a week goes without a response, call his ISP and have the content removed.
You've tried the carrott- now try the stick.

I'd try to have the entire site removed with a "removed by the copyright holder" notice put up.
 
Posted by Mikey T (Member # 144) on :
 
Hmm, at least I like the deck plans... but not in that modified state. Nice work.

And yes, try the stick if the carrot doesn't work.

spock_mike
 
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
 
Try just sending them that pic of Mike- that'll scare 'em straight.
er...so to speak.
 
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
 
Have you seen some of the members from that RPG. They make MikeyT look handsome by comparison.
 
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
 
This really pisses me off. Plagiarism is just unforgivable, it's the worst. But listen to yourselves, people. You've got to say "I'm a human being, goddamnit! My life has value!".
I want you to get up now. I want all of you to get up out of your chairs. I want you to get up right now and go to the window. Open it, and stick your head out, and yell "I'M MAD AS HELL, AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE!"

I'm serious, I want you to get up right now, sit up, go to your windows, open them and stick your head out and yell "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take this anymore!" Things have got to change! But first, you've gotta get MAD! Then we'll figure out what to do about plagiarizing and show cancellations and Michael Bay. But first get up out of your chairs, open the window, stick your head out, and yell, and really say it: "I'M AS MAD AS HELL, AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE!!"
 
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
 
Someone watched Network for the first time last night.
 
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
 
Or was tortured while that was on and took it as his new core persona to escape the horror...
His new stats line tells it all- this "Paganini" chap must have gotten to him.
 
Posted by Shik (Member # 343) on :
 
That ststline's been there for ages. It's Seaman Jones.
 
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
 
Seriously, stop channeling Data.
 
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
 
I don't believe in intellectual property as such, as in, the concept that an idea can be 'owned.' I do believe in creative property, though - to the extent that if you create something, even if its based of the creation of someone else, it ought to be your creative property. In other words, if I had my way, if you made up some deck plans, even based on Paramount's Nova class, it'd still be legally yours and the Maquis would have to pull the stuff.
 
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
 
Well yah. It's no different than if someone (say me for instance) did a painting of the Nova Class (which I have) and someone started using it as part of the graphic header on their fan site without asking (which has happened). Just because I didn't design the Nova Class, doesn't mean the painting is up for grabs. Same thing here. Just because Treknophile didn't design the ship or come up with the idea of deck plans, doesn't mean his artwork can be grabbed and posted as someone else's work.
 
Posted by Bernd (Member # 6) on :
 
First off, I don't think that it matters a lot whether the original creator made the deck plans just for fun or whether it's being sold. It is theft of intellectual property. Although the legal situation may be different, I don't think it should matter either whether the deck plans are based on another copyrighted work (Nova) or an original ship. At least as long as the original copyright holder is accordingly credited and if the original work is not harmed (which is definitely not the case, considering that there will be never official deck plans).

The plans on that web site are a blatant rip-off of a kind that has become quite customary. It is wrong because it doesn't credit Strategic Design. And even if they did credit you it would give you a bad reputation because of the low quality of the reproduction. So, at the very least, the makers of the RPG ought to credit you *and* replace it with something better.
 
Posted by Mikey T (Member # 144) on :
 
Send them me as an Orion Slave Girl... that should stop them.

I don't know about the IP of art... even art that is copied over and over. If it were illegal to copy artwork from Star Trek, a lot of us would have been in jail already.

Then again I'm neither an artist nor lawyer.
 
Posted by Treknophile (Member # 1869) on :
 
You have to admire the cojones of this guy - big brass ones no doubt.
Go to: http://wiki.maquis.com/w/Image:Nova_Bridge.jpg
Do those look familiar? Check out the 'created by' tag.
This is stolen work. Any ideas? Comment?

[ September 04, 2007, 08:33 PM: Message edited by: Treknophile ]
 
Posted by Malnurtured Snay (Member # 411) on :
 
Are you linking to the right page?
 
Posted by Treknophile (Member # 1869) on :
 
My bad.
 
Posted by Pensive's Wetness (Member # 1203) on :
 
wow. someone actually looks at that tripe? Nova Class Assault ship? uh, last i check, wasn't the marquiz, like DS9, deader than fiction?

yeah, it's rippage. It's always been easier to steal something/conquer/force 'em to reservations/etc. from someone/something/someplace/some people/etc. than making it yourself. how else does the world get by with stuff that America or Japan already made/makes/has a pattent/etc.?

or used to make... or outsourced to India...

/me ponders this and really, really gets fucking depressed....
 
Posted by Treknophile (Member # 1869) on :
 
Fast service!
I sent an email to this gentleman:
Samuel Cummings
International Coordinator, MFI
I received a response at 5:11 am this morning.
He apologized for the problem and said he would remove any/all images immediately.
Then he sent another email 12 minutes later, stating he had done so. I wasn't eben awake yet.
A gentleman, so far as I'm concerned.
 
Posted by Mars Needs Women (Member # 1505) on :
 
I still see it on their page. http://wiki.maquis.com/w/Nova_Assault
 
Posted by Treknophile (Member # 1869) on :
 
It seems to be gone. I'll wait a while, and then thank Mr. Cummings.
 


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