Or Military or Army or whatever they call it...Why does it exist? I've been thinking about it, and it doesn't seem like there's ever any indication of another alien species out there who the Colonials fight against.
In the 40 years between Cylon wars, the population seemed to become totally complacent and convinced the Cylons were gone - so how could the government justify such an enormous military expenditure? I mean, they mentioned that there used to be 12 Battlestars, and that there were now - I can't remember, was it over 90 or over 100? Anyway, that's a vast increase over the years. And when exactly did they have one Battlestar for each colony? During the first Cylon war, or before then? If before the Cylons, who exactly were they afraid of? If after, that means since the Cylon war they increased the number of big-ass capital ships tenfold or more. Why?
Posted by Pensive's Wetness (Member # 1203) on :
12 Battlestars per TOSBSG, many, many dozens in NuBSG. Plus they were better organised as well...
Posted by shikaru808 (Member # 2080) on :
Well, I assume they might feel pirates or lawless citizens might be a problem That doesn't justify such a large naval force though.
I guess the best explanation for me is that there was always a deep-seeded fear of the Cylons to warrant a large Battlestar fleet to protect the Colonies. 12 planets is a LOT of space to cover and protect effectively, and a reserve of ships to go on the offensive or patrol will add to that too. Also, with 12 planets and interstellar capabilities, I think they could get enough resources to produce and maintain the fleet without much of an impact on the economy.
But that's just me =P
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
Also, before the Cylons, the colonies mostly fought each other. I forget which episode suggested that, but the overall idea was that the unification of the colonies happened around the same time the Cylon War started.
In the years after the war, a decent patrol force for the solar system is still needed, and just because the fear of advanced technology was fading (re: Baltar et al) doesn't mean they were also ready to disband their defensive military.
And anyone of a similar bent to that ridiculous "Demand Peace" movement doesn't count.
I have to admit, though, one thing that never quite made sense: What do most ships need with FTL if the colonies are all in one system?
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
I didn't get the idea that the fear of the Cylons was that deep-seated outside of the military, but maybe I was wrong.
Also, I'm fairly sure in the miniseries that they mentioned that there was originally only one Battlestar per colony, during a tour of the soon-to-be-decommissioned Galactica.
MinutiaeMan: They aren't. At least, not in the new series. Or at least, I didn't think they were...and it certainly doesn't make any kind of sense to have twelve rocky terraformable planets in the same system, never mind twelve already-habitable ones. I mean the twelfth planet out would be receiving hardly any sunlight; it might have a year centuries long.
Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
Twelve habitable planets in one system? Pfft, that's nothing. Everyone knows you can get much more.
Posted by B.J. (Member # 858) on :
Yeah, it's been said by RDM that they're all in the same system.
In addition to the mention of the pre-unified colonies, there was something else mentioned in "Hero". I don't remember specifically what was said, but the Valkyrie had a cover mission that wasn't related to the Cylons. Something about renegades or something?
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
Fabrux: Well to be fair, they terraformed a fair number of gas giant moons too...
Posted by Harry (Member # 265) on :
Well, the feeling I get from whenever we see Colonial politics, the Colonies aren't a particular peaceful society. They were definitely at war with eachother before the Cylon Wars (Wikipedia mentions background material (?) that says the original Cylons were used in the wars between the colonies).
The Colonial Government may very well be a mostly Caprican affair, with probably Tauron and Virgon as close allies. Then we have three established 'poor' colonies, with a lot of manual labor and orthodox religion: Saggitaron, Gemenon and Aerelon.
The large space fleet may really be there to 'enfore peace' between the colonies, or if you're a pessimist, they are there to pacify the resource-starved colonies.
Posted by HerbShrump (Member # 1230) on :
Can we turn this into a general BSG rant? Some of my same complaints from TOS are still around in NuBSG.
Caprica, Caprica, Caprica! There are or were 11 other colonies out there but the only one we ever really hear about is Caprica. You know, we have several large cities in the States/world. We don't spend most of our time talking about Washington DC as if the rest of the cities don't exist.
I think the original concept of the colonies was for them to be in separate star systems. (or was it separate continents on the planet Kobol?) That idea was definitely nixed by the time the Mini came about. 12 continents or 12 star systems would have been more realistic. On the other hand, 12 star systems would have been much harder to wipe out in a sneak attack.
Don't forget that Ragnar seemed to be in the same star system as everything else.
As for FTL - without FTL it would take a long time - weeks or months - to travel to another planet in the same star system.
Miniseries mentions the destruction of several (I think it was 30) battlestars in the opening attack. Definitely more than 1 per colony.
At least the Mini and NuBSG gave a better explanation as to how the rest of the Colonial Fleet was destroyed. In TOS it never made sense to me that there weren't any destroyers or frigates or other ships that also survived.
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
Caprica, Caprica, Caprica!: No, but most of our TV shows talk about or are set in NYC or LA, or occasionally Chicago...
I thought they had to jump to Ragnar?
Posted by B.J. (Member # 858) on :
quote:Originally posted by HerbShrump: Caprica, Caprica, Caprica! There are or were 11 other colonies out there but the only one we ever really hear about is Caprica. You know, we have several large cities in the States/world. We don't spend most of our time talking about Washington DC as if the rest of the cities don't exist.
Actually, that's a rant of mine of movies/TV in general. It's always about NYC or LA. It would be nice to hear about the rest of the country for a change. (I'm only talking about US based stuff here.)
Posted by B.J. (Member # 858) on :
GAH! Ninjaposted by Daniel! And about the same thing, too!
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
I took the promicin shot and got precognition Posted by HerbShrump (Member # 1230) on :
quote:Originally posted by Daniel Butler: Caprica, Caprica, Caprica!: No, but most of our TV shows talk about or are set in NYC or LA, or occasionally Chicago...
I thought they had to jump to Ragnar?
They did, but they Cylons were already in the system. Hence it's safe to conclude it was just a jump within the system.
From the Wiki:
quote:Ragnar is a gas giant planet, and the location of the Ragnar Anchorage munitions station located in the outer reaches of the Twelve Colonies. After the Fall of the Twelve Colonies, Commander Adama, assuming command of the Colonial Fleet after Admiral Nagala's death, orders all ships to Ragnar; President Laura Roslin's fleet is the only known assemblage of ships to make this rendezvous.
And also:
quote:The star system of the Twelve Colonies of Kobol has not been named [5].
Caprica, Scorpia (Razor), and Tauron (Razor) have been shown directly. No other descriptions are available of the other colonies in terms of their celestial type: Minor planet, moon, or major planet. However, in the Miniseries, Elosha states that the tribes settled onto "12 worlds." While the use of "worlds" is ambiguous, the Colonies are noted as independent celestial bodies.
Although Commander Adama and President Roslin mention leaving the star system, the series itself is ambiguous as to whether all colonies are located in one star system. However, Caprica, Virgon, and Ragnar (based on tactical data related by Lieutenant Felix Gaeta) [6] are (Miniseries). In a blog entry Ronald D. Moore states that all planets are situated within one system, in keeping with the Original Series.
The Twelve Colonies had approximately 20 billion inhabitants prior to the Cylon attack (The Resistance) [7] and maintained some minor observatories and listening posts in outlying star systems [8]. Economic activity, such as tylium mining also occurred outside of the immediate vicinity around the Colonies (Hero).
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
Well, I'll assume they were terraformed and that the Kobolians had massively better tech than the Colonials...
Posted by Sol System (Member # 30) on :
Space Pentagon + Space Defense Industry Lobbyists.
Also, it's just said that the original batch of battlestars were each named after one of the Twelve Colonies. No reason to assume there wasn't a sizable fleet already in existence, pre-Galactica-type battlestar.
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
Exactly my point - whyfor howcome so many big ships? I didn't know they had previously fought amongst themselves.
Posted by shikaru808 (Member # 2080) on :
Well, in a universe where they fling nuke's at each other like cherry bombs, I think it's safe to say that they would want a fleet that could take 1 or 2 before it goes under. How many has Galactica took? 2-3 nukes? And she's an older model Battlestar so that's saying something IMHO
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
Yes, but my question was about who was doing the flinging prior to the invention of the Cylons and their subsequent rebellion. I thought the Colonies were unified, so I was wondering if there was some alien species out there they were shooting at.
Posted by HerbShrump (Member # 1230) on :
My impression is the Colonies only unified in the face of the first Cylon war. They had to unify to defeat the Cylon rebellion.
After the first Cylon war they kept their fleets around in case the Cylons returned.
But it's a good question. We see in our own military the mindset of mothballing and cutting ship productions/troops because of cost-cutting. And this is on a planet that is far from unified.
So why then in the 40 years (or more) since unification hasn't their been any large scale cut-backs and mothballing in the Colonial Fleet?
Or, maybe there was. Galactica was being mothballed/turned into a museum.
Posted by B.J. (Member # 858) on :
Plus, we really don't know how the size of the Colonial fleets now compared to during the first Cylon war.
And yes, Daniel, it's been repeatedly said that they were not unified, and were fighting each other. And RDM has specifically said there were to be no aliens in this version. Besides, I think EJO said he'd walk off if there were.
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
Yeah I dunno who EJO is Posted by B.J. (Member # 858) on :
Edward James Olmos, aka Bill Adama
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
Right. Him. I'm not good at guessing acronyms, I guess...
Posted by B.J. (Member # 858) on :
Then how exactly do you survive around here? Geeks like us thrive on acronyms!
TOS TNG DS9 VOY ENT TMP TPTB BSG ANH ESB ROTJ POTC B5 IATVMOAMMG etc.....
Posted by Daniel Butler (Member # 1689) on :
*feels inadequate as a man* IATVMOAMMG....I am the very model of a.....male-male gangbang?? ...Strange, that that should be the first thing that comes to mind...
Posted by shikaru808 (Member # 2080) on :
Do you flashback much Dan? Posted by Fabrux (Member # 71) on :
Modern Major General
I've information vegetable, animal and mineral...
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
...and that's when I shot him Your Honour.
Posted by B.J. (Member # 858) on :
LOL! Always could count on Marcus & the Doc for a good quote!
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