I've always been intruiged by the Mon Mothma character - in RotJ out comes this high powered woman who seems to be a big wig in the Rebellion but we never heard of her before. Will she be in SW:epIII?
Is she a Senator? Maybe she's the Queen of Naboo at the time?
[ April 16, 2004, 11:53 PM: Message edited by: Nim ]
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I think she's supposed to be Palpaltine's aide in EpIII (though rumors abound, of course).
Mabye we'll see what a Bothan looks like.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Yah, I'm pretty sure she's in the cast line-up for Ep. 3. Whether she's supposed to be Palpy's aide or not, I don't know. I'm hoping she's in the movie, because you're right, she seems to be this high-ranking individual, but we never get any info on her. According to the Expanded Universe, she was one of the people who really got the Rebellion going.
I believe she is a Senator, but I doubt she's fron Naboo, since she was in EU material way before they ever came up with Naboo.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
The EU never mentioned that Palpatine was from Naboo either. Things change.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 24) on :
What. Really? He's from Naboo?
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
He's the senator for Naboo in Episode 1. I always took that to mean that he was, y'know, from there.
Posted by Mucus (Member # 24) on :
Yeah, but how are Senators elected/chosen/whatever? I mean, here in Canada senators are just appointed by the largest party. Although each individual senator is symbolically supposed to represent a particular region, there's no requirement they actually come from that region.
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
Well, the SWDB lists Palpatine's homeworld as Naboo, so he's not just a symbolic representative.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
If it's never mentioned in the EU where Mon Mothma comes from then, sure, they could make her from Naboo. But I think they've mentioned her homeworld and given her a decent backstory. Not that they couldn't change it in the movie... I'll have to look at the Star Wars site.
Posted by Toadkiller (Member # 425) on :
So he's a Naboobian?
hee hee hee
Posted by MinutiaeMan (Member # 444) on :
quote:Originally posted by Aban Rune: If it's never mentioned in the EU where Mon Mothma comes from then, sure, they could make her from Naboo.
Who do you say only "if it's never mentioned in the EU"? George Lucas has already pissed all over the EU so much, it's not even funny. And I say that because I would've much preferred seeing something based on Timothy Zahn's background instead of what we got with TPM and AotC... clone wars with renegade, semi-insane clones, and the Dark Jedi uprisings prior to Palpatine himself... 'twould have been much more interesting, IMO.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Yah, I know the EU has already been contradicted in the movies. Thaz why I said, "Not that they couldn't change it in the movie."
If they put her in Ep 3, though, I have a strong feeling they'll stick to her established background.
Incedently, this is what the site has to say about her character in the "Movie" section of the listing. Some of it appears to be from the Episode 3 events:
"A stern, stately woman of middle age, Mon Mothma was the Supreme Commander of the Alliance to Restore the Republic. Mothma rose to the rank of senior senator in the Old Republic. When Senator Palpatine made his move toward Supreme Chancellor, and later Emperor, Mothma remained a senator until the end, despite her opposition to Palpatine's policies. When the outrages became too difficult to ignore, and the debate moved from the senate floor to the battlefields of distant worlds, Mothma helped forge the Alliance that eventually toppled the Empire and restored freedom to the galaxy."
Her home world is listed as Chandrila.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
The disbanded the senate in ep 4 - so I guess thats why she's not around until ep 6?
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Abandon All Jason said: "Mabye we'll see what a Bothan looks like."
Kind of a cross between a werewolf and the oldstyle Planet of the Apes mask, with the snout I mean.
But will it look anything like that if Lucas decides to show one? It's not like he cares about the EU ideas: we'll see that design realised only if someone in the art department sneaks it in (like the Outrider's brief appearance in EpI).
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
That is official, that is LucasArts. Lucas doesn't trample LucasArts facts.
It's one thing for Shady Horsie Comics coming up with totally crazy comic book events to sell issues, it only requires LucasFilm to not bring any of it up, but LucasArts putting body and looks to a previously mentioned but unseen race, is something else.
But Bothans won't be used in Episode III, there is no reason for it.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
No reason? If they show Mon Motha has a Bothan aide or best friend (or are just screwed by the Empire) it would go a long way to establishing a reason for the Bothan's sacrifice just prior to RTOJ.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Well sure, but that's a bit too literate and simplistic a reference to ROTJ. Just because Mon Mothma referred to them in ROTJ doesn't mean they totally hang out together, it's not like they deliver goods to her personally, they work for the Rebels.
When George W Bush wants some intel on a Scientology DayCare Center with sparks coming out of the children's bedrooms at sleepytime (high voltage auditing), he doesn't call up FBI agent John Q Fed's cellphone and ask him to roll on over there and check it out, then drive to the White House and tell him what he found, while standing under the Oval Office window.
Now, Bothan representatives in the senate, that might work.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Nim: Well sure, but that's a bit too literate and simplistic a reference to ROTJ. Just because Mon Mothma referred to them in ROTJ doesn't mean they totally hang out together, it's not like they deliver goods to her personally, they work for the Rebels.
This is George Lucas we're talking about: the same guy that has young Anakin say his whole inane "are you an angel?" speach and literally leap up in the air and shout "yippie!" in the same movie. Simplestic refrence and dialogue is his hallmark. Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"Um...a native of Nubia?"
Watch, um... Chasing Amy, I think it was.
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
Well, you know Lucas and kids.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Ahhh... Chasing Amy. The first half hour had me rolling.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Is that a Bothan in the first part of Chapter 20 of the Clone Wars Micro Series? It was some sort of wolf-man.
Finally seen all 20 chapters now
last chapter - woah - very good!!
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Well I damn haven't! Defend thy self! *fromp*
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
CC: "Yes, General."
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I'm going to try and watch Chap 20 before I go to lunch... I've heard 'twas yummy and that much slaughter ensues.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
There's a photo of Genevieve O'Reilly as Mon Mothma from EpIII here. There are no spoilers on this page except for the image.
-MMoM Posted by HerbShrump (Member # 1230) on :
quote:Originally posted by Nim: Hm. Found nice link.
I can't get the movies to play. I have sound but no video. QuickTime says I'm missing a compressor.
Any ideas?
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Redownload Quicktime?
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by Nim: Hm. Found nice link.
You mean I had to leave my computer on for excruciatingly long hours to download eps 11-20 over Kazaa!?! Arrrgh.
Anyway I've got them all.
I found out at theforce.net that the Wolfman was voted for by visitors to the cartoonnetwork website as to which of three characters they wanted animated for episode 20. Why they picked the wolfman is beyond me.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
The "wolfman" is a Bothan, I'm sure of it, now that I've seen him.
HerbShrump, I've had serious problems with Quicktime too this year, I simply don't use it anymore.
Download and install Realplayer (it's free too), right-click on the Clone Wars movie-file and choose "Open With...", and choose Realplayer from the list (you might also want to check the box called "Always use this program to open the selected file...")
Just make sure, in the Realplayer "Preferences" menu, that you check the boxes for .avi and .mpeg4-files, the format the Clone Wars files are in.
Oh, and make sure to download the TOP row of the movies on that german page, they're higher resolution than the lower row. It takes longer to download, but IMO it's worth it, it reduces the graininess.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
The first time I downloaded the Clone Wars-files (1-10), they had additional files with chapters 1-10 in "Director's Commentary"-mode, with the producer and staff members commenting on the production.
So does anyone know where the D.C's for chapters 11-20 can be found? Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Oh, here I go again, answering my own questions and all...
I found the commentary tracks. On the danish starwars.nu site, they've updated the list (previously only chapters 1-10) AND with the commentaries for 11-20.
Well, Chapter 20 kicked butt. I can't wait to see that bad guy (trying to avoid spoilers) in the movie. I'm wondering if they'll be able to pull him off on the big screen, though. I am also wondering who will finally take him out. Probably Anakin.
That picture of Mon Mothma looks cool. Definitely a resemblance. You can also see a man behind her who appears to be wearing a uniform like General Madine's in RotJ. Could be the same character.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Just because they were in the same scene in ROTJ?
Madine was an imperial defector, it would be silly if he'd been friends with Mothma in the young years, then supported a reign of terror for 20 years, then gone back to the good guys in just the right time.
Hm, that guy behind Hot Mothma looks like Orlando Bloom with a buzzcut.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Well General Grevious - oh Lucas how original - looked part droid - and then they closed in on his eye - and he seemed to have organic components. Could this be a precursor for Vader's part man/part machine?
One thing - so what about 3 light sabres - shouldn't any respectable three-armed jedi be able to wield three? I'm sure there are multi-armed species. Infact I believe Yareel Poof had two arms hidden.
What was his species? (He was seen in Ep 1).
Oh and Asajj Ventress or who ever it was - the Sith... was she the same race as the cloners in Ep2 - Kaminoin?
And reguards to 'wolfman' in chapter 20 - on the starwars.com site his race isn't listed as Bothan.
Also - that Padawan - looks a LOT like Shaggy from Scooby Doo! On that force.net page they named him Shag'i.
Ok found a picture thing... some of those names *shakes head* LOL! Voolvif Monn (wolfman), Bugnaught, Sha'a Gi
AND do you think it's worth while downloading the commentary clonewars?
It'll probably comeout on DVD.
P.S. Downloading these 'chapters' are worth it simply for Mace Windu. Clenches his fist and a whole row of battle-droids explode! Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I said COULD be the same character. Maybe it isn't. I was just noting the resemblance in uniforms. I know relatively little about the EU.
I'm relatively happy with the alien Jedi depicted in the micro series, even Wolfman. I like the white furry one and the hammerhead jedi best.
The way they drew Shaak Ti is rockin'! She looks way more exotic than she ended up looking in Ep 2.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
And cute.
AndrewR: Yes it's worthwhile downloading the comments. There's lots of interesting dialogue about backstory, character creation process and motivations behind certain decisions in the production.
Assaj Ventress is not Kaminoan, she's definitely humanoid, but with pale skin. The eyes in the cartoon were oversized, for dramatic effect. Her saber duel with Dooku looked stiff and unnatural, but the duel with Anakin was marvelous, they really picked up some experience over time, as they worked on "Clone Wars".
Nice avatar chart there, Andrew. Strange that Barriss Offee isn't there, she's like the prettiest jedi ever. It was cool that they retained the synchronization of Offee and her mentor's fighting style, it worked well. It was mentioned in the AOTC Visual Dictionary.
About multiple saber techniques, we have yet to see a Jedi who specializes in the form.
I actually talked to a female Kendo practitioner about this. She said that one could indeed go into Kendo tournaments with two swords; a standard size and one smaller, like the Wakizashi. But nobody who's tried the form in competition has ever made it to the top, not even bronze, she said. It's mostly hotshots who try it, apparently.
Miyamoto Musashi could do it, I believe he even favored two fullsize Katanas (good if you need to take a hostage to get out of a pinch, he's to have said), but Musashi was a sword god, or so the tales go.
The tradeoff in strength and maneuverability, especially when recovering the sword to guard position after a slash, is often so big (unless you train with special weights to strengthen and increase hand/wrist response) that the opponent with both hands on his hilt will smash your guard open and give your ribs a faretheewell.
I don't think Anakin could take Grievous, more likely Windu will take him (or take him with him, is my guess).
Even in "Jedi Academy" multiplayer games the ones on top are usually single saber wielders or saber-staff wielders.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Shaak Ti was indeed quite the cutie in the micro series.
During Anakin and Ventress' duel, the rain hitting their blades blew me away. That was a really nice touch. The Force pushes were also pretty cool, especially when Anakin resisted the one attempt and the whole background blurred out.
The point about duel saber technique is interesting. I wonder how it would be effected by the fact that lightsabers wouldn't really have any weight, which is, I guess, still open to debate.
I have a hunch you're right about Anakin and at least several other Jedi will team up against Grevious. Most likely right before Anakin goes Vader on everyone and takes them out.
The microseries managed to get me excited about the movie again.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Well, the blades have always had mass as all the props have had plastic or metal rods as placeholders. In the continuity of the SW-universe, it is held that the force field encapsulating the hot plasma core of the lightsaber circulates with such speed that a gyroscopical weight and momentum appears in the blade.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Ohhh yes the rain on the sabres - very cool... although we don't get that in epII on Kamino with Obi Wan. (would have been interesting). I'm also glad that they showed the sabre light on their bodies/faces. The only time they did this was of course in Ep II with Anakin and Dooku.
Also notice the purple crystals in the walls of the Jedi temple on Ilum?
And a little bit of a spoiler for a cool bit so watch out...
spoiler
spoiler
spoiler...
Anyone think we may get Qui Gon in ep III? Notice that when Anakin strikes down Asajj, we see Obi Wan, Yoda and Qui Gon react!
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
hmmmm.....as to sword styles, I'm suprised there is not a Jedi (or Sith) with a small "Lightdagger" to emulate the rapier style of swordsmanship. The dagger is used both to parry and as a meanbs of attack.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I've watched it 3 times and I've never been able to tell who that was... but yes, I've always thought that that particular character will make an appearance of some kind in Ep 3.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Jason: The rapier/cutlass style is represented by Count Dooku, Darth Tyrannus. He practically says "En Garde!" after igniting his saber and swinging it into ready position, in AOTC.
Posted by japol (Member # 1149) on :
I think there is another pic of Mothma in the most recent Star Wars Insider... with some sort of headgear.
But I only glanced at it.
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
I'm suprised there is not a Jedi (or Sith) with a small "Lightdagger" to emulate the rapier style of swordsmanship.
Well, I don't think it'd be that hard to construct a sabre with a blade that could extend partially (to dagger-length) as well as fully, so there very well might be.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"Notice that when Anakin strikes down Asajj, we see Obi Wan, Yoda and Qui Gon react!"
Well, considering that we also heard Qui-Gon in AotC when Anakin killed all the Tuskens, it's not surprising that they threw that into the cartoon. I don't know how much we can trust the cast list at IMDb, but Qui-Gon isn't on it. Then again, Liam Neeson wasn't even credited in AotC.
The IMDb list doesn't show General Grievous, either. Also, it lists someone as playing Bail Organa's wife. I always assumed Organa had married Amidala and pretended to be Leia's father. But I guess maybe the Oraganas adopted her. I guess it would explain Luke's question in RotJ about "your real mother".
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Sideous isn't credited either, IIRC. They don't list the people that they want to be surprises
Suuposedly Luke's ANH blade can have its length adjusted by turning a dial on the side of the hilt. In Spinter of the Mind's Eye, I think, he dials it down to just a few inches long.
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
Liam Neeson wasn't even credited in AotC.
I don't believe he actually recorded that line. What I heard was that it was a digital construct. Whether that's accurate or not, I don't know.
In Spinter of the Mind's Eye
Hasn't that been declared part of the Infinities series?
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
quote:Originally posted by TSN: I always assumed Organa had married Amidala and pretended to be Leia's father. But I guess maybe the Oraganas adopted her. I guess it would explain Luke's question in RotJ about "your real mother".
Actually, that line really only does make sense if Amidala *DID* marry Organa, because if she died in labor as I've heard is supposed to happen in EpIII, Leia shouldn't remember her any better than Luke.
BTW, between the Clone Wars and EpIII discussion, shouldn't some $$$ spoiler warnings be added to the title?
quote:Originally posted by Omega: Liam Neeson wasn't even credited in AotC.
I don't believe he actually recorded that line. What I heard was that it was a digital construct. Whether that's accurate or not, I don't know.
I thought it was looped dialogue from the previous film, the part on Tatooine when Maul comes speeding up and he says "Anakin! Drop!"
quote:In Spinter of the Mind's Eye
Hasn't that been declared part of the Infinities series?
Why, no it hasn't. Why do you say that? In any case, it doesn't matter since he was just wondering why no one had ever thought of the idea, not whether or not it was canonical.
-MMoM Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Nim: Jason: The rapier/cutlass style is represented by Count Dooku, Darth Tyrannus. He practically says "En Garde!" after igniting his saber and swinging it into ready position, in AOTC.
Duku's lightsabre is more of a cutlass (in how he uses it). A Rapier style would be more aggressive in lunging forward and would likely need a bit more room than usually practical.
I always wondered how much force powers go into just strengthening their arms while dueling...someone like Yoda would need to expend some measure of energy to match the physical strength of an opponent like Darth Maul.
You'd think a Jedi could be extremely formidable in hand to hand combat if they lost their 'sabre (though that's not the case in EpII.)
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Aban Rune:
Suuposedly Luke's ANH blade can have its length adjusted by turning a dial on the side of the hilt. In Spinter of the Mind's Eye, I think, he dials it down to just a few inches long.
Well that idea is from Jedi's SFX: While on the sail barge, Luke's 'sabre blade is about two meters long while he's slicing through henchmen, (it's the "streetsweeper" setting, I guess) and then much shorter when Boba Clone ties him up.
If the adjustment is just a knob on the handle, I'd bet a Jedi can adjust it via the force while fighting.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
quote:Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim:
quote:In Spinter of the Mind's Eye
Hasn't that been declared part of the Infinities series?
Why, no it hasn't. Why do you say that?
I think that readers up and down the land going "ewwwwwww! She's your sister!" is a pretty good reason to declare it non-canon.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
But...uh...Luke didn't know she was his sister. And, IIRC, they never actually did anything incestuous. He was just fantasizing about her, right? In which case it's nothing out of the ordinary. He was obviously doing as much in ESB as well, and I think you'd find that it's not uncommon in real life, either.
-MMoM Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by Cartman: I'm suprised there is not a Jedi (or Sith) with a small "Lightdagger" to emulate the rapier style of swordsmanship.
Well, I don't think it'd be that hard to construct a sabre with a blade that could extend partially (to dagger-length) as well as fully, so there very well might be.
Reading the starwars.com site - I clicked on a link 'lightsabers' and it says that there is a focusing knob thingy - which can change the emitted part... i suppose you could always have it turned to half length.
Yoda and Yaddle's light sabres might be 'light-daggers' or 'light-shortswords'.
It'd be interesting to see a Jedi with a staff weapon. A double edge in blue or something.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: You'd think a Jedi could be extremely formidable in hand to hand combat if they lost their 'sabre (though that's not the case in EpII.)
It IS the case in the clonewars series - especially in the Mace Windu eps and some others where they loose their sabres. And start attacking hand-to-hand or with the force.
Can Jedi combine their force powers?? I mean with Greivous they could have just looped him and all force blast him from every side.
Posted by Bond, James Bond (Member # 1127) on :
^^^ They could all surround him and give him the Force Push at the same time to crumple his body like an aluminum can, which it is.
quote:I'm suprised there is not a Jedi (or Sith) with a small "Lightdagger" to emulate the rapier style of swordsmanship.
In those crap Kevin J. Anderson post-ROTJ novels one of Luke's apprentices who turned to the Darkside had a lightsaber that could dial up and down from knife size up to like four meter long lance size.
Posted by Bond, James Bond (Member # 1127) on :
quote:Originally posted by AndrewR: Well General Grevious - oh Lucas how original - looked part droid - and then they closed in on his eye - and he seemed to have organic components. Could this be a precursor for Vader's part man/part machine?
From the Star Wars.com description of General Grievous:
Gender: Male
Height: 1.904 meters (default configuration)
Weapon: Blaster pistols, lightsabers
Affiliation: Confederacy of Independent Systems
When the greedy corporate titans and the disenfranchised systems of the galaxy pooled their resources together to leave the aging Galactic Republic behind, they became the Confederacy of Independent Systems. Their military assets formed a droid army of seemingly limitless size -- a weapon that needed a military mastermind to wield effectively. From within the ranks of the Confederacy came General Grievous, a brilliant strategist unhindered by compassion or scruples. His lightning strikes and effective campaigns caused his reputation to grow in the eyes of a frightened Republic. To many, he eclipsed the threat posed by Count Dooku, the charismatic leader of the Confederacy's political battlefields -- Grievous was the face of the enemy.
Part non-humanoid alien, part custom-designed droid, Grievous hunted Jedi for sport and proudly displayed his victims' lightsabers around his belt as trophies of his conquests. His unorthodox fighting form and mechanical enhancements gave him an edge in close-quarters combat, and his strategic ingenuity and flawless cunning rendered him almost invincible against the Jedi.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
AndrewR: There have been no official Jedi with saber staffs, but in the "Jedi Academy" and "Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic" computer games you have that choice.
I suspect it is available in the MMORPG "Star Wars: Galaxies" as well, though I haven't confirmed it.
In a way, the saber staff is much more of an offensive, malevolent weapon than the usual saber, which is why it might be inappropriate for a Jedi.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
By an amazing coincidence, episode 20 of Clone Wars was on today. It made me go ooooh. That is all.
quote:Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim: He was just fantasizing about her, right?In which case it's nothing out of the ordinary. He was obviously doing as much in ESB as well
Yes, but I didn't have to read lots of passages on that.
quote:and I think you'd find that it's not uncommon in real life, either.
Fantasizing about your sister isn't that uncommon in real life?
Where do you live, again?
Posted by Styrofoaman (Member # 706) on :
Must be the Deep South.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
That can either be a joke about A: Southern Hicks, B: Panties Region or C: Little Nicky.
Foam man, you truly are teh subtle man, lol!
Onto current events, it was nice that the "Clone Wars" staff paid attention to one little detail some people would never even think of:
Anakin's Padawan-saber was squished on Geonosis, so he built a new one (the one Luke will eventually inherit) before the Clone Wars Mini-series started. At first I wasn't sure he had switched, the saber he wielded in the opening episode of "Clone Wars" was never seen close up. But from Chapter 17, lo and behold;
You can tell because it has the gunsight thingie on the muzzle, and the muzzle itself has a curved shape, instead of the straight angle of the AOTC-saber;
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
One could of course argue that, since Luke's saber doesn't switch on with the button Anakin's cyborg hand is seen pushing (that should be the blade length adjuster) but with the wide button on the middle, this "Clone Wars" saber could be another one entirely. Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
Well, the hilt looks about the same and its blade is white, so I can live with a button doing something that it's not supposed to do. B)
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
quote:Originally posted by PsyLiam: Fantasizing about your sister isn't that uncommon in real life?
Where do you live, again?
As a sometime-student of psychology, my understanding is that fantasy involving the immediate family/household members is integral to an individual's development of a sexual identity. What's more, the preponderance of "sibling slash" erotic stories would indicate that it is not an uncommon secret fantasy to have had.
Note that I'm only talking about fantasy here, not actually acting on such ideas. Though early sensual experimentation between siblings ("playing doctor," as Deckard put it) is also not uncommon. Developmental psychologists are quite well aware of it as a documented phenomenon.
In any case, this is not the phenomenon occuring in Luke's case. He simply found himself aroused by an attractive woman with which he felt a connection with. He had no idea she was in any way related to her, and I might point out that readers of SotME had none either, when the book was originally released.
I'm sure Luke looks back on such events with a chagrin that equals your own upon reading the account after you know all the facts.
Oh, and I live in California, btw.
-MMoM Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"Actually, that line really only does make sense if Amidala *DID* marry Organa, because if she died in labor as I've heard is supposed to happen in EpIII, Leia shouldn't remember her any better than Luke."
Well, if she dies in childbirth, that's a different matter. I was suggesting that Leia knew she was adopted, and that she had known her real mother, Amidala, who died when Leia was young.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
Ah. I see. But I might add that it always seemed to me (just from the films themselves, not counting any EU elaboration) that Leia believed Organa to be her real father. Just my impression.
Oh, and how 'bout those spoiler warnings?
-MMoM Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
But Padme isn't the only mother Leia was to 'know'. Luke asks her if he remembers her mother - her REAL mother (Luke stresses). This points to the fact that Padme didn't marry Organa - or maybe she did, died young and then Organa married again.
Who named Luke and Leia? They don't sound like very Nabooian names. Luke is very Tatooine settler... Lars, Beru, Luke.
Leia sounds more Aleraanian... Bail etc.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"Luke is very Tatooine settler... Lars, Beru, Luke."
Well, "Luke" might fit with "Lars" and "Owen", but with "Beru", "Shmi", and "Anakin"?
"Leia sounds more Aleraanian... Bail etc."
Didn't Episode I make a reference to a "Bail Antilles of Alderaan"? Is "Bail" a name or a title?
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
He was called "bail" cuz he dig teh weed!
Andrew, how do you possibly know what would sound "Aleraanian" if we only have one other name to compare with?
I think "Leia" sounds like something the Caminoloids would use, so Leia must be a clone of her mom and... oh never mind, I'll let Lucas fuck up his own characters.
MIM, I cant say that I've ever had a fantasy about anyone in my immeadeate family. That just aint right. ....although I once looked at my cousin's butt at a party and was a bit shocked when she turned around and said "hi!". Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Any fantasy occurring in one's mind should be accepted and not chastized. When you start judging yourself and punishing "sinful" thoughts, you'll only make the need to think about them stronger. Any urge and fantasy is there for a reason. You can accept it and even try and get to the bottom of it, with outside help of course, but don't whip it.
I added some spoiler-warnings to the thread-title, it has grown to contain some impressive amount of information, this thread.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by TSN:
"Luke is very Tatooine settler... Lars, Beru, Luke."
Well, "Luke" might fit with "Lars" and "Owen", but with "Beru", "Shmi", and "Anakin"?
Actually apart from 'Shmi' - yeah Beru and Anakin - if we don't think of "Luke" as we might some person down the road called Luke.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: He was called "bail" cuz he dig teh weed!
Andrew, how do you possibly know what would sound "Aleraanian" if we only have one other name to compare with?
I don't know - cause "Leia" shares 75% of it's letters with "Bail"? Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Nim: Any fantasy occurring in one's mind should be accepted and not chastized. When you start judging yourself and punishing "sinful" thoughts, you'll only make the need to think about them stronger. Any urge and fantasy is there for a reason. You can accept it and even try and get to the bottom of it, with outside help of course, but don't whip it.
I totally agree! Only chastize yourself when you wake up covered in someone else's blood. Then it's probably time to quit drinking as well....
...but I digress.
Kissing your sister the way Leia did Luke is sick! Sick I say!
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Indeed. I once woke up in a pool of my own blood, my nose had started bleeding during sleep. I didn't recognize the man in the mirror at first, then it was all "OMG WTF LOL!", as it were.
AndrewR: Anything can be proved with statistics. ;.
I would really like to see more of Alderaan, for some reason the world Princess Vespa escaped from has placed itself as a substitute for Alderaan, after all these years.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Only if Bail drives a white Mercedes.
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
"...but don't whip it."
Actually, that's exactly what you should do. B)
Posted by Captain Mike XLVII (Member # 709) on :
what you must do.
you must whip it.
Posted by Kazeite (Member # 970) on :
OK, after seeing rest of the Clone Wars, I'm not sure when should I be afraid more of Mace Windu... with of without his lightsaber
Other concepts however seems kinda... funny. I mean, Trade Federation... Stomper?
"Witness the power of our latest superweapon!"
"What does it do?"
"It flies and stomps on enemies." Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Seismic Tank, yeah. I think it's a good concept, just fantastically hard to accomplish, engineering-wise. The closest resemblance, in my opinion, is a cross between the old Sand Crawler and the Trade Federation's troop deployment ship.
They sure made Windu look great, clean form. Apparently they consulted a Wushu champion to get the techniques right. The horisontal twirls in mid-air, very Kung Fu-ish. Mark Dacascos does it at least once in every one of his movies, if given the opportunity.
Making the Jedi/Sith martial arts a blend between the best of chinese and japanese styles was a very good decision. I wonder if the hand/foot attacks Anakin did against Ventress were inspired, or just of "noname" style, like Kenobi's and Qui-Gon's kicks and punches against Maul.
Thoughts?
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
I'm curious as to whether they have martial arts consultants on Samurai Jack. Some of the stuff shown on there seems very familiar to some Wushu forms that I've seen.
If it's true, then they might have just used their experience from that show on Clone Wars. Or perhaps actually used the same consultants.
Oh, and that bit where big scary final episode bloke started spining his lightsabers around...that was just showing off.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
quote:The closest resemblance, in my opinion, is a cross between the old Sand Crawler and the Trade Federation's troop deployment ship.
It reminded me more of the World Devistators, from the Dark Empire comic.
Posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim (Member # 646) on :
A conscious design decision, most likely.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Bail is like the "John" of Alderaan, and Antilles is the "Smith". Very common names. At least that's what I've heard as an explanation.
I was under the impression that Leia thought she was a natural Organa as well. At least at first. She obviously knew *something* when Luke asked her about her *real* mother, but she didn't know anything about Anakin / Vader.
I'm thinking she knows about Padme, but grew up with with Organa's wife essentially being her mom, given that Padme apparently dies sometime early in her childhood. She knows just enought o know that Organa's wife isn't her real mom. Perhaps she's under the impression that Padme was Organa's first wife, but I don't think that will actually be the case.
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
To blend the ongoing topics of Clone Wars martial arts and classic trilogy character prequel goodness...
I'm looking forward to seeing the young(er) Tarkin. They did a durn good job of casting there.
And I'm hoping we see a decent fight scene with Grievous' kapoera fighting style. Yummy.
--Jonah
P.S. Wouldn't an "editor's starter kit" DVD set be the best version in which to release the SW movies? Let the viewer pick the story elements, takes, and subplots they want? So you can have Luke's Anchorhead reunion with Biggs, or Beru's cut scenes from AOTC? And cut out the midichlorian lines? *sigh*
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
What did Beru do or say in Aotc?
Posted by Peregrinus (Member # 504) on :
Heck, I've spent many hours wandering the cut/altered scenes section of this site. Most illuminating. I recommend it.
--Jonah
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Woah. I thought that read "Beru uses a vibrator"!
Man, I need to get laid or more than four hours of sleep or something. Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Beru: "On Naboo� What's it like?"
Padm�: Oh - it's... very green. With lots of water. And trees. Not like here at all.
Beru: I think I like it here better. *crushes vegetables in clenched fists*
Padm�: Maybe you'll come and see it one day.
Beru: I don't think so. I don't like to travel. *breaks drinking glass in her hands while staring into moisture farmer calendar*
Wow, Lucas is one multi-layered director! Too bad it didn't make it into the film.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Too bad the whole "ride a rhino" love scene did.
At least that was dropped in the IMAX version!
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
"I need to get laid or more than four hours of sleep or something."
Stronger glasses? Sex therapy? Dyslexia counseling? Exploratory brain surgery?
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
I'll start with more sleep and more sex and follow additional treatment options as requred.
I dont wear glasses and the "sex therapy" idea has merit....now I just need the right councilor.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Councilor?? You have a thing for members of your city council? Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
I noticed something else in "Clone Wars", while showing it to a friend; in Mace Windu's chapter, one of the clone troopers caught in the sand shockwave emits a Wilhelm!
He's one of my oldest friends, we've made it a running gag to spot Wilhelms ever since the first time we watched "Raiders of the Lost Ark" together, back in -92..
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Negative 92? I had no idea you were that old.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Oh these fucking anglosaxons. '92 then! Adhere to my post!
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
I swear to God, if you and I were in the boat with Charon on the river Styx and I had to pay him gold coins to let us off, you'd babble nonsensical behind me to make me lose count.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
I hope we get to see some of the Mace Windu clone-wars bad-assness rub off in the third movie.
I loved those supercharged sprints where everything around him blurs!
The bit at the end with the kid was a bit annoying... if you take it seriously... if you look at it as a joke i.e. Mace Windu - protector of innocent wide-eyed children - then it's funny.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
quote:Originally posted by AndrewR: I loved those supercharged sprints where everything around him blurs!
Really? I wasn't so keen. It was pretty obvious that they'd just sped things up and added the blur effects to hide the bad animation.
I mean, Mace Windu as Sonic the Hedgehog? What's up with that?
Posted by Mucus (Member # 24) on :
I just thought that bit with the kid was a homage or something to that sports commerical where some athlete drinks some fan-kids pop drink after a game and then tosses his towel at the kid....or something.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by PsyLiam:
quote:Originally posted by AndrewR: I loved those supercharged sprints where everything around him blurs!
Really? I wasn't so keen. It was pretty obvious that they'd just sped things up and added the blur effects to hide the bad animation.
I mean, Mace Windu as Sonic the Hedgehog? What's up with that?
Well we've had Yoda as Sonic the Hedgehog - why not Mace... it's part of the Jedi training, y'know!
No what I meant was - that it was cool to see the 'force sprint' or what ever you would call it - from the point of the person sprinting.
Did anyone else go 'oh no he lost his purple lightsabre!' after the first stomping bit?
Also it was interesting how the stomper/tank thing had elements of Jawa the Sandcrawler - maybe they stole/bought their tech from the Tech-guild/Commerce-Guild or whoever makes those robots.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
The background story has it that the sand crawlers were very old machinery made by a long-gone race of entrepeneurs, mining Tatooine for minerals and such. The business waned, as the people left and Jawas took over the sand crawlers. They were built as independent, mobile refineries, I think. The jawas just use them as 18-wheelers, by the look of things.
AndrewR: Yes, the slow sprinting was nice. The blur effects weren't added as cover-up, they were used to show when someone used the Force, so that it was distinguishable. Psyliam, I suggest you watch the beginning of Phantom Menace again, when Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan escapes the Droidekas, they dash away in a blur from pretty much a stand-still, very nice.
I prefer that they make a "thing" out of using the force, instead of the rather anonymous stunts of the original trilogy. When I was little and watched TESB and ROTJ, I didn't get how the hell Luke could suddenly do 10-feet backflips and balance on one hand, since nobody had explicitly stated that "The Force lets you run, jump and fight with increased strength, speed and also prescience against non-force users". When you're 7 you're not much of an abstract philosopher.
Back to Chapter 13: during the last THUMP from the Seismic Tank, Windu creates a slight Force Orb that protects him from the initial wind blast. The dust flows very distinctively around the Orb, I thought it was a nice touch.
And another thing in Chapter 20: when unarmed, Shaak Ti Force-deflects a saber attack, in much the same way that Vader absorbed Han Solo's blaster shots at Bespin. Quite nifty.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
"Well we've had Yoda as Sonic the Hedgehog - why not Mace... it's part of the Jedi training, y'know!"
I'm a little confused. Is it that you don't get the joke, or can you just not let it stand on it's own, without diminishing it?
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
Well, he almost couldn't have NOT gotten the joke. It being such a SUBTLE dig at himself, I mean.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
quote:Originally posted by Nim: when unarmed, Shaak Ti Force-deflects a saber attack, in much the same way that Vader absorbed Han Solo's blaster shots at Bespin. Quite nifty.
Hmmm... I missed that. Must watch Chap 20 again...
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Nim: I swear to God, if you and I were in the boat with Charon on the river Styx and I had to pay him gold coins to let us off, you'd babble nonsensical behind me to make me lose count.
YOu could always dunk his head into Styx nad he'd forget what he was talking about.....or start all over!
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
quote:Originally posted by Nim: Psyliam, I suggest you watch the beginning of Phantom Menace again, when Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan escapes the Droidekas, they dash away in a blur from pretty much a stand-still, very nice.
Obi Wan seems to "forget" how to do that trick when he's "rushing" to aid Qui-Gon against Darth Maul.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Obi Wan was just afraid of getting booted across the room again.
I suppose it's possible that Maul was keeping him from using his Force abilities. Some kind of "holding field" or something. Like, in the Micro Series, we see Anakin hold off a Force attack by Asaaj. Maybe Maul was countering Obi Wan's efforts to use WickedFastSpeed.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
There must absolutely exist certain passive and active "countermeasures" amongst duelling force-users. For example, never in Star Wars have a Jedi or Sith Force-pulled his opponent's saber from his hands. Knocked it away, yes, but never pulled it.
Is this because of some unwritten code of conduct or because a Force-user has such strong control over the weapon in his hands that it acts like a "static field" against Force Manipulation?
Now, the Sith can place subtle shrouds of "darkness" upon the Jedi, weakening their ability for prescience and guidance (Palpatine's long-term agenda), and even good Jedi can make crowds lose memory or they can become invisible to their eyes.
Also, in almost all the "Jedi" computer games (-"- Knight, -"- Outcast, -"- Academy) the dark side has the option of developing "Force Drain", hampering a Jedi's abilities momentarily.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
I'd go along with the idea of a Jedi having a firm hold on his weapon. So much so that it counters an opponent's attempts to use the Force against him in that way.
They're almost certainly using the Force to help control their attack and guide their blows, so they probably have an active connection to their weapon at all times during a fight and would be able to immediately counter any attempt to manipulate it.
If Maul saw Obi Wan coming, he could've countered Obi Wan's attempts to Force Run which would've slowed him down to impulse.
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
Maybe, but he was a little busy fighting QG and not falling into that bottomless pit in the process, so Force-muddling OW at the same time would probably have been too much of a strain even on him.
Posted by TSN (Member # 31) on :
Perhaps Obi-Wan knew that, even by Force-running, he couldn't make it through that passageway in a single interval of the forcefields' opening and closing. And, if he ran that fast, he wouldn't be able to stop quickly enough to avoid running into one when they closed.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Possibly. That floor *was* pretty slippery.
Posted by Omega (Member # 91) on :
I always thought Qui-gon should have just shoved Maul back into the pit from the other side of the force field. But then, maybe what they were doing the whole time was fighting with their force powers, each trying to shove the other to their deaths.
Posted by PsyLiam (Member # 73) on :
Didn't Lucas already address this several years ago? It's mentioned in the Script Book during the Empire Stikes Back section. Lucas relates how someone asked him about why Vadar didn't throw the furniture at Obi-Wan when they had their fight in Star Wars, and his reply pretty much said what Nim's did...that Obi-Wan's own force powers would have countered any attempts at telekenesis.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
There'd have to be some sort of limits to what Force moves they could do - otherwise one could just Force-snap the leg of an opponent.
Also, what WAS the real reason for Qui-Gon getting on his knees? In the Luminara Undali/Baris Offee SP? eps of the Clone Wars we see them get on their knees to concentrate to hold back the roof of the Jedi Temple from caving in.
Was Q-G conserving strength - or was he fighting Maul at that time?
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
quote:Originally posted by TSN:
"Well we've had Yoda as Sonic the Hedgehog - why not Mace... it's part of the Jedi training, y'know!"
I'm a little confused. Is it that you don't get the joke, or can you just not let it stand on it's own, without diminishing it?
Well the presence of one of these: in the original reply answers all of your questions, TSN.
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
"Also, what WAS the real reason for Qui-Gon getting on his knees?"
Meditating, calming his mind, whathaveyou.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Lot of good it did him. I'm just drawing the similarities between him and Luminara... gathering more force strength.
Posted by Reverend (Member # 335) on :
He just looked knackered to me.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
If he hadn't calmed himself then, he probably would've lasted even shorter.
Yes, Andrew, Zen-meditation, both to conserve strength, prepare for the next showdown and most importantly, shield himself from Maul's hatred and demoralizing efforts.
With Luminara and Offee, it was both gathering strength and conserving oxygen, I imagine. Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
That's always what I assumed. He was just calming himself and focusing his thoughts and power. Trying to stay away from the Darkside. You'll notice ObiWan did no such thing and sort of chomped at the bit the whole time. Likewise, Maul paced back and forth fueling his rage. Obi Wan came alot closer to the Dark side in his confrontation with Maul than Qui Gon did. But then, Obi Wan also walked away from his confrontation with Maul...
I read somewhere that the reason Maul was able to Force push Obi Wan into the pit was because he used Obi Wan's touching of the Dark side as a conduit for the attack. Obi Wan getting smacked in the face right beforehand probably didn't hurt either.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
Actually, his dip into the Dark Side was what almost cost him his life. He made a reckless hands-over-head axe chop against Maul, which Maul of course parried and then Force-pushed him into the pit. EDIT: Why you editing little...
*ahem* Everything that happened after that, starting from Obi-Wan's hanging from the knob can be explained thus; On monday in LucasVille, at the last day of script-writing for the Maul-duel, the martial arts-savvy and saber-wise writer got the flue, and the janitor in the building was forced to finish the scene and get Obi-Wan out of his pickle.
See, the original writer of course knew that a person jumping over his opponent and attempting to beat him with a six foot wide side-sweep of his saber was going to get killed as hell. Now, the janitor on the other hand, was a Douglas Fairbanks-buff.
*gesticulates in air, washing his hands of the whole affair*
Are we clear?
Posted by Cartman (Member # 256) on :
Let's just say it would have been a fine Fatality move for a "Mortal Kombat" game and leave it at that. B)
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
True, true. And it was the first ever body-cleaving in Star Wars, for what it's worth.
Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Hmmm that got me thinking... did Vader have his own torso? Maybe Obi Wan pulls that little stunt again??
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
The only edit I made was the additional of that Force-Push-Dark-Side-Conduit part at the end... which I remembered after I posted... is that what you're talking about, Nim?
Yah... I yell at Maul everytime I see that scene. "Kill Him!!! He's just hanging in the air! KILL HIM!!!!"
But oh well.
Posted by Nim (Member # 205) on :
It turned out your last line said what my first line said. No biggie.
Posted by Aban Rune (Member # 226) on :
Ah Posted by AndrewR (Member # 44) on :
Well, did Vader have a torso/lower part of his body? Would be neat continuity.
Posted by Nim the Merciful (Member # 205) on :
From what I've gathered, his head, his left arm and his torso are his. The jury is out on his legs (I'm going on Curtis Saxton here), but his head, left and spine are definitely his own. It is the damage to his neck-vertebrae that has screwed up his breathing, as all selfrespecting sciffy-nerds know.
Posted by Ultra Manjuice (Member # 239) on :
It will be neat when Darth Vader is on the covers of GQ and Teen People and Young Girls Masturbatory Monthly.
Star Wars is so keen, with the integrity and the quality.
Posted by Jason Abbadon (Member # 882) on :
Coming from someone calling himself "Ultra Manjuice" that's some statement.
Posted by Ultra Manjuice (Member # 239) on :
It certainly is italicized some statement.
Posted by Lee (Member # 393) on :
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On that force.net page they named him Shag'i. 
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