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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Identity Crisis: [QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim: [qb] Before some folks get into an uproar, I'll tell you what ASSUMPTIONS I am making so that they can save their breath telling me that I'm proceeding on false grounds. [/qb][/QUOTE] I'm going to comment on your assumptions. Just because I can ;) [QUOTE][qb] 1. Picard's line in "Relics" (TNG) means that there is one Connie in the Fleet Museum that retains it's original (TOS-style) configuration. [/qb][/QUOTE] Agreed. [QUOTE][qb] 2. The Republic mentioned in "Valiant" (DS9) is the same ship as from "Court Martial" (TOS) and TUC, the Constitution-class NCC-1371. [/qb][/QUOTE] There's no on screen evidence that the TOS Republic is a Constitution. There's no on screen evidence that the ship mentioned in DS9 is the same as the ship mentioned in TOS. [QUOTE][qb] 3. All the Constitution-class ships in TUC are refitted types. Specifically the Eagle, Kongo, Endeavour, Republic, and Potemkin. [/qb][/QUOTE] We don't have any way of knowing that. The Eagle was shown on a chart but the othsrs could be pre-refit. [QUOTE][qb] 4. Usually (though not ALWAYS) if we see one ship that carries a name, and then we see a later ship with the same name, it means that the older vessel has been lost/ destroyed. [/qb][/QUOTE] Isn't it enough to say that the previous ship has been removed from service? Even if museum ships are still technically in commission in Starfleet (another assumption) there's no reason why that should prevent another ship having the same name - in 1917 the USS Constitution was renamed Old Constitution so that a new battle cuiser could be called Constitution. The battle cruiser programme was later cancelled the the original name restored. [QUOTE][qb] 5. The ship in the fleet museum is not one that we’ve never heard of. (This makes sense since there were established to be only 12 Connies originally, probably with the rest being introduced in two or three subsequent batches, the latter of which would all be refit-types.) [/qb][/QUOTE] There was 'a dozen like her in the fleet' in TOS season one. That says nothing about how many were lost prior to TOS season one, nor about how many were built after TOS season one. [QUOTE][qb] Now that we've gotten that out of the way, here it goes. Here are all the known Constitution-class vessels: U.S.S. Constellation, NCC-1017 U.S.S. Constitution, NCC-1700 U.S.S. Defiant, NCC-1764 U.S.S. Eagle, NCC-956 U.S.S. Endeavour, NCC-1895 U.S.S. Enterprise, NCC-1701 U.S.S. Enterprise, NCC-1701-A U.S.S. Essex, NCC-1697 U.S.S. Excalibur, NCC-1664 U.S.S. Exeter, NCC-1672 U.S.S. Farragut, NCC-1647 U.S.S. Hood, NCC-1703 U.S.S. Intrepid, NCC-1831 U.S.S. Kongo NCC-1710 U.S.S. Lexington, NCC-1709 U.S.S. Potemkin, NCC-1657 U.S.S. Republic, NCC-1371 U.S.S. Yorktown, NCC- 1717 U.S.S. Valiant, NCC-1223 [/qb][/QUOTE] Valiant was lost 50 years prior to TOS. So either the Constitution class is much older than commonly held (and in fact is slightly older than 'The Making of Star Trek' and fan speculation had it) or the Valiant is not a Constitution. For some of the above there's no on screen evidence that they are Constitutions. Merely long standing speculation by fans (and production staff). [QUOTE][qb] There's also these two ships from the DS9 episode "Sacrifice of Angels," which are Excelsior/Constitution-class and Intrepid/Constitution-class starship Variants, respectively: U.S.S. Curry, NCC-45617 U.S.S. Voyager, NCC-73602 [/qb][/QUOTE] Why bother mentioning these? If any ship that uses Constitution components is relevant then why not list all the Mirandas and Sydneys? [QUOTE][qb] We can further eliminate the Valiant, Defiant, Constellation, Intrepid, and Farragut, as these ships were destroyed in TOS. [/qb][/QUOTE] No evidence that the Farragut was destroyed, merely speculation. More likely that the Exeter was abandoned (how would they decomtaminate her?) or that one or more of the 'Ultimate Computer' ships were scrapped following their mauling by M-5. [/QB][/QUOTE]
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