quote:Originally posted by Cartman: "And for what? So they wont have to take an extra second and fill out an alternate form?"
Principle, dear, principle.
Of all the things to fight for on princliple, this one seems pretty weak, don't you think? I mean, why not fight for equal medical coverage for gay couples that matches married couples? That at least would lend publicity to an IMPORNTANT issue that affects thousands, if not millions. Of all the added secutiry measures that the Brder Patrol and Immigration offices have shoved down their throats since 9/11, do they really need to have to second guess every couple that wants to cross the border for fear of bad P.R.? Give me a break.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
You sure are lucky you are a straight, American, white, middle class, male.
OR:
Those black people in the 1960's, they should hacve fought for something more important than to sit at the front of the bus. Who does that affect? Fight for medical care, is what they should of done. Not some trivial bus matter.
Registered: Oct 1999
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posted
We're NOT talking about gays being segregated to sitting sections, seperate schools or waterfountains so don't make that comparison. We're not even talking about equal rights for gays, (something I support wholeheartedly). We're talking about two guy making a big deal about a form. They'll almost certainly be filing a lawsuit over this precieved discrimination as well and possibly costing some working stiff his job (shit rolls down hill after all).
I agree that this form could be changed to include the aknowledgement of same sex marriages but NOT untill the laws in america governing marriages is changed.
They're going after the symptom for publicity instead of the more daunting task of trying to change the marriage laws in this country.
Border patrol has better things to be concerned with.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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Cartman
just made by the Presbyterian Church
Member # 256
posted
That form has EVERYTHING to do with equal rights.
"They're going after the symptom for publicity instead of the more daunting task of trying to change the marriage laws in this country."
And what do you do when you want to effect change? You seek publicity.
Registered: Nov 1999
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quote:And what do you do when you want to effect change? You seek publicity.
You seek to change the CAUSE.
Lets say that the form is changed with no argument: the same core problem is still there- the lack of aknoweledgment for same sex couples. I imagine the hollow victory of winning so easily would garner no publicity for their cause.
Put into medical terms, if you have a compound fracture and someone puts a band-aid on it, you're not really healed: the problem is just less obvious.
These guys have a just cause but have little chance of making real change by protesting against this form's usage. Even if the US aknowledges their Canadian marriage as a courtsey to our northern brothers, it's not going to change policy regarding marriages in the US. It's a placebo at best and tilting at windmills at worst.
As neither of these guys is an american citizen, their voices will carry very little weight with those that set US policy.
I just think their efforts would be better served elsewhere (like working with gay rights groups in the US to promote education on how the more open-minded marriage laws work in Canada- eliminating legal oppositions to changing the law by demonstrating that it works).
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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Cartman
just made by the Presbyterian Church
Member # 256
posted
"You seek to change the CAUSE."
But the cause here isn't some carryover religious ordinance from 1620. It's the extreme myopia of the bible-thumping population in general and fundamentalist judges like Santorum and Scalia in particular. Public opinions that deeply rooted won't change if you don't make a hell of a lot of noise re: civil rights in public.
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted
How are theses guys doing anything to raise awareness? This looks like a lawsuit-motivated stunt. If it's done for publicity, it'll probably hurt the cause more than help it. If people lose their jobs over this minor inconvience, it'll just add weight to theose (like Scalia) that say the gay activsts are a bunch of crybabies.
It's not really what they're doing that I disagree with but how they're going about it.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
Laws vary state to state, one not recognizing the others laws, so by not recognizing another countries same sex marriages isn't that big of a deal.
This couple knew that their marriage wouldn't be recognized in the US, so they do this anyway, figuring to draw attention to their cause, whether it is to garner support for the same law here in the US or to fill their wallets, or does one carry a purse?
Now, knowing that they know US law, is this a frivalous law suit?
-------------------- "You are a terrible human, Ritten." Magnus "Urgh, you are a sick sick person..." Austin Powers A leek too, pretty much a negi.....
Registered: Sep 2000
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posted
What are the rules for Canadian citizens filing lawsuits against US agencies anyway?
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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quote:"We could have filled out separate forms, but how much of your dignity do you want to have chipped away? We feel we had an affront to our dignity, so we decided to go back home."
Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack. Fill out the damned form like everybody else. That's what "equal rights" is really about. You put up with the same crap the rest of us do, and like it.
quote:Mr. Elliott said although the U.S. customs official was enforcing American law by not allowing Mr. Bourassa and Mr. Varnell into the United States, "he was doing it on Canadian soil."
Questions of extraterritoriality. It may very well depend on where he was standing whether he was on 'Canadian' soil or not.
-------------------- "The best defense is not a good offense. The best defense is a terrifyingly accurate and devastatingly powerful offense, with multiply-overlapping kill zones and time-on-target artillery strikes." -- Laurence, Archangel of the Sword
Registered: Mar 1999
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Saltah'na
Chinese Canadian, or 75% Commie Bastard.
Member # 33
posted
First: You're getting married, right? How would you feel if the U.S. doesn't recognize your marriage for some assinine reason and both of you had to fill out separate forms or the like? And don't say that your marriage is recognized because it's between a man and a woman. That's not the point. Equal rights means you are treated like every other married couple. Including this one.
Also, FYI, because a good majority of Canadian travellers are to the U.S, it was decided that instead of having Canadian travellers hogging customs lines in the U.S., there would be a Customs booth in every Canadian airport serving travellers to the U.S. You get cleared by customs BEFORE you leave for the U.S.
So yes, technically, they were still in Canadian soil. But there is no validity to that portion of the complaint. The customs workers in Canadian Airports are American Citizens, and I agree that they have every right to block entry to questionable people. But there is nothing questionable about these two people who were turned away.
-------------------- "And slowly, you come to realize, it's all as it should be, you can only do so much. If you're game enough, you could place your trust in me. For the love of life, there's a tradeoff, we could lose it all but we'll go down fighting...." - David Sylvian FreeSpace 2, the greatest space sim of all time, now remastered!
Registered: Mar 1999
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quote:Originally posted by Saltah'na: First: You're getting married, right? How would you feel if the U.S. doesn't recognize your marriage for some assinine reason and both of you had to fill out separate forms or the like?
I'd feel like the US isn't deserving of my tourism dollars and travel elsewhere.
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Gee, It's not like they were suprised or anything: They already knew the situation and were trying to make a point with this stunt. They were even traveling to a "equal rights conference" and I'm sure this was staged for that purpose intentionally.
None of my gay freinds think this is such a big deal. We're SO worried about any potential double standard that we'll make this into a far larger issue than it needs to be while really imporntant things are ignored.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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