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Author Topic: Iraq
Jay the Obscure
Liker Of Jazz
Member # 19

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We train them and they don't go where they are ordered to go.

Is that standing up or standing down?

--------------------
Great is the guilt of an unnecessary war.
~ohn Adams

Once again the Bush Administration is worse than I had imagined, even though I thought I had already taken account of the fact that the Bush administration is invariably worse than I can imagine.
~Brad DeLong

You're just babbling incoherently.
~C. Montgomery Burns

Registered: Mar 1999  |  IP: Logged
bX
Stopped. Smelling flowers.
Member # 419

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Well, Jay, didn't you hear? People who enter military service and then ignore their orders and shirk their duties are no longer considered cowards, but the utmost patriots and (I've heard) can even rise to substantial positions of power.
Registered: Sep 2000  |  IP: Logged
Jay the Obscure
Liker Of Jazz
Member # 19

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And then this shows up in the Washington Post:

quote:
Spy Agencies Say Iraq War Hurting U.S. Terror Fight

The war in Iraq has become a primary recruitment vehicle for violent Islamic extremists, motivating a new generation of potential terrorists around the world whose numbers may be increasing faster than the United States and its allies can reduce the threat, U.S. intelligence analysts have concluded.

A 30-page National Intelligence Estimate completed in April cites the "centrality" of the U.S. invasion of Iraq, and the insurgency that has followed, as the leading inspiration for new Islamic extremist networks and cells that are united by little more than an anti-Western agenda. It concludes that, rather than contributing to eventual victory in the global counterterrorism struggle, the situation in Iraq has worsened the U.S. position, according to officials familiar with the classified document.

----

So does the Administration come out and frankly discuss these finding with the American people. Let's see what Mr. Cheney, ever the stranger to reality, had to say:

quote:
Cheney accuses Democrats of 'defeatism'

MILWAUKEE - Vice President Dick Cheney said Monday that Democratic leaders aren't doing enough to fight terrorism and said Americans must "reject any strategy of resignation and defeatism in the face of determined enemies."

Cheney, speaking at a party fundraiser, said Republicans must keep national security on the minds of voters heading into the November midterm election.

Cheney used his 20-minute address to defend the Bush administration's war on terrorism and point fingers at Democrats.

"We have to stay on the offensive until the danger to civilization is removed," Cheney told about 110 people at the Pfister Hotel in downtown Milwaukee.

----

The Democrats aren't doing enough to fight the terrorists that the Neocons are creating in Iraq.

Interesting.

--------------------
Great is the guilt of an unnecessary war.
~ohn Adams

Once again the Bush Administration is worse than I had imagined, even though I thought I had already taken account of the fact that the Bush administration is invariably worse than I can imagine.
~Brad DeLong

You're just babbling incoherently.
~C. Montgomery Burns

Registered: Mar 1999  |  IP: Logged
Lee
I'm a spy now. Spies are cool.
Member # 393

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I hear a report yesterday on the Today programme (yes, the BBC Radio 4 flagship news show, known to many atround the world for the story on the Dodgy Dossier, Dr. David Kelly and Gilligan vs. Campbell) that at the height of the initial invasion of Iraq, that the Iranian government - confronted with this massive multinational invasion of a neighbouring contry that wasn't actually sponsoring terrorism to anything like the degree that the Iranians themselves were - wrote a letter (via the Swiss) offering all sorts of concessions (full access to Iranian nuclear program etc.). This got as far as the State Department before Cheney took it upon himself to declare "We don't talk with Evil" and that was that. Now, three years later and Iraq's a shitmire which can, they tell us, only be solved by invading Iran who aren't feeling all that conciliatory anymore.

I haven't had time to research this, anyone else familiar with this story?

--------------------
Never mind the Phlox - Here's the Phase Pistols

Registered: Jul 2000  |  IP: Logged
Jay the Obscure
Liker Of Jazz
Member # 19

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Yet more news:

quote:
House clears $70 billion mostly for Iraq war

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. House of Representatives on Tuesday gave final approval to a massive funding bill for the Pentagon that provides another $70 billion for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The Senate was expected to pass the final version of the $447.6 billion bill by this weekend, sending it to President George W. Bush for his signature.

The House passed it 394-22 with virtually no debate as lawmakers worked to complete business before breaking to campaign for November elections that will determine control of Congress.

In a slap at Bush, the bill would bar the administration from using money from it to construct permanent U.S. military bases in Iraq or to exercise any control over Iraq's oil sector.

Both the House and Senate have approved that language before, but until this bill Republicans had stripped it in House-Senate conferences.

Democrats and many Republicans say the Iraqi insurgency has been fueled by perceptions that the United States has ambitions for a permanent presence in the country. They have called on Bush to make a policy statement that the United States has no such plans.

With this bill, Congress will have approved more than $500 billion for the wars, with the bulk of that spent in Iraq. Lawmakers called the $70 billion a "bridge fund" to last about halfway through the next fiscal year, which starts on October 1.

About $23 billion of that is to replace and refurbish equipment worn out in the harsh environments of the two conflicts.

The bill provides $377.6 billion for the Pentagon's core programs, $4.1 billion less than Bush wanted but $19 billion above current levels.

It funds a 2.2 percent military pay raise, and provide $557 million more for the Army Reserve and the Army National Guard than Bush sought.

*Emphasis added.

So, $500 billion...was it supposed to cost the American people that much money? Let's look at what some of the key people had to say in the early stages of these conflicts.

Representative Jan Schakowsky (D-IL) compiled some important statements:

quote:
Past Comments About How Much Iraq Would Cost

Earlier this year, experts said the war and aftermath in Iraq would cost hundreds of billions of dollars, a fact the White House refused to acknowledge as valid, even going so far as to fire Lawrence Lindsey for his realistic projections. In September, 2003, Paul Wolfowitz even told the Senate "no one said we would know anything other than this would be very bloody, it could be very long and by implication, it could be very expensive." Here�s a record of what the administration, in fact, said:

Budget Director Mitch Daniels

- On September 15th 2002, White House economic advisor Lawrence Lindsay estimated the high limit on the cost to be 1-2% of GNP, or about $100-$200 billion. Mitch Daniels, Director of the Office of Management and Budget subsequently discounted this estimate as "very, very high" and stated that the costs would be between $50-$60 billion [Source: WSJ, "Bush Economic Aide Says Cost Of Iraq War May Top $100 Billion," Davis 09/16/02; NYT, �Estimated Cost of Iraq War Reduced, Bumiller, 12/31/02; Reuters News, �Daniels sees U.S. Iraq war cost below $200 billion,� 09/18/02]

- �When a reporter asked Daniels yesterday whether the administration was preparing to ask other countries to help defray possible Iraq war costs, as the United States did for the 1991 war, the budget director said he knew of no such plans. Other countries are having economic downturns of their own, he said.� [Source: Pittsburgh-Post Gazette, �Byrd attacks cost of possible Iraq War, McFeatters, 9/25/02]

- �There�s just no reason that this can�t be an affordable endeavor.� [Source: Reuters, �U.S. Officials Play Down Iraq Reconstruction Needs,� Entous, 4/11/03]

- �The United States is committed to helping Iraq recover from the conflict, but Iraq will not require sustained aid.� [Source: Washington Post, 4/21/03]

Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld

- �Well, the Office of Management and Budget, has come up come up with a number that's something under $50 billion for the cost. How much of that would be the U.S. burden, and how much would be other countries, is an open question.� [Source: Media Stakeout, 1/19/03]

- �I don�t know that there is much reconstruction to do.� [Source: Reuters, �U.S. Officials Play Down Iraq Reconstruction Needs,� Entous, 4/11/03]

Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz

- �I think it's necessary to preserve some ambiguity of exactly where the numbers are.� [Source: House Budget Committee, 2/27/03]

Top Economist Adviser Glen Hubbard

- �Costs of any such intervention would be very small.� [Source: CNBC, 10/4/02]

Budget Director Josh Bolten

- �We don't anticipate requesting anything additional for the balance of this year.� [Source: Congressional Testimony , 7/29/03]

*Emphasis added.

Additionally we have the following from a Senior Administration Official:

quote:
For Immediate Release March 24, 2003

BACKGROUND BRIEFING BY A SENIOR ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL ON THE SUPPLEMENTAL

Presidential Hall
Dwight D. Eisenhower Executive Office Building

6:10 P.M. EST

SENIOR ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: We're still the on-time administration, but we were just at the congressional leadership of both parties, and they were unexpectedly inquisitive.

Q Unexpectedly?

SENIOR ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: Well, I said unexpectedly inquisitive -- I just mean it was a really good exchange and they asked a lot of questions. And so somebody underestimated the time it would take to get here, and I apologize for that.

Let me -- obviously, we're here to discuss the supplemental request that the President will make tomorrow to fund the cost of the war in Iraq, along with relief and reconstruction, along with support for our diplomatic coalition partners, as appropriate, and protection of the other front of the war, which, regrettably, involves the protection of the American homeland.

For all those purposes, the President will be asking for $74.7 billion total. And this will, we believe to the best of our ability to estimate this, cover all costs from now to the end of the fiscal year, so six months or a little more. Actually, more in the sense that many of these costs have already been incurred and will be covered in this bill, or in the case of some of our coalition partners, reimbursed.

Six months, as I say, contemplates a conflict, a period of stabilization in Iraq, and the phased withdrawal of a large number of American forces within that six-month window.

*Emphasis added.

So, in the talk to Congress and the American people stages of "let's go invade Iraq for the WMD," the cost was $50 to $60 billion and we were supposed to be in and out in 6 months.

Things do not appear to gone quite so swimmingly in reality. It would seem that they might have been trying to paint us as pretty a picture as possible to bamboozle us into meekly going along.

--------------------
Great is the guilt of an unnecessary war.
~ohn Adams

Once again the Bush Administration is worse than I had imagined, even though I thought I had already taken account of the fact that the Bush administration is invariably worse than I can imagine.
~Brad DeLong

You're just babbling incoherently.
~C. Montgomery Burns

Registered: Mar 1999  |  IP: Logged
Jason Abbadon
Rolls with the punches.
Member # 882

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quote:
Originally posted by bX:
Well, Jay, didn't you hear? People who enter military service and then ignore their orders and shirk their duties are no longer considered cowards, but the utmost patriots and (I've heard) can even rise to substantial positions of power.

Military advancement the Star Trek/ Stargate way. [Wink]

Hmmm....today's paper had two intresting articles:
Firstly, Bush's fassist plan to deal with prisoners by eliminating their Habius Corpus rights is )thankfully meeting resistance- the South Florida Sun Sentinel ran a front page photo showing a group of vetrans and elderly people (silently- their T-Shirts told the tale) protesting inside Congress.
Second was a fotnote article saying yet another 4000 U.S. soldiers will have to stay in Iraq instead of returning home when their official hitch is up- duration of extention not stated.

Personally, I praying for the mid-term elections to make King George a lame duck and for the Democrats to be able to oust Rumsfeld.
...of course, two people at my work yesterday told me "I'm so sick of politics that I'm not voting!"....so we may yet see a continuation to this downward spiral. [Roll Eyes]

--------------------
Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering.
-Aeschylus, Agamemnon

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Nim
The Aardvark asked for a dagger
Member # 205

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Last night I had the strangest dream I never dreamed befooore,

I dreamed the world had all agreed to put an end to waaar.

And people in the streets below were dancing 'round and 'rooound,

and guns and swords and unicorns were scattered on the grooound.

Registered: Aug 1999  |  IP: Logged
Jason Abbadon
Rolls with the punches.
Member # 882

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Crack- just say no.
besides, perscription narcotics are more readily available

Besides, all the unicorns are pulling saucers at Area 51 these days.

--------------------
Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering.
-Aeschylus, Agamemnon

Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
bX
Stopped. Smelling flowers.
Member # 419

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(wasn't it uniforms?)
Registered: Sep 2000  |  IP: Logged
Jay the Obscure
Liker Of Jazz
Member # 19

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Saw this Boston Globe article on one of the blogs I read.

quote:
Cost of Iraq war nearly $2b a week

WASHINGTON -- A new congressional analysis shows the Iraq war is now costing taxpayers almost $2 billion a week -- nearly twice as much as in the first year of the conflict three years ago and 20 percent more than last year -- as the Pentagon spends more on establishing regional bases to support the extended deployment and scrambles to fix or replace equipment damaged in combat.

The upsurge occurs as the total cost of military operations at home and abroad since 2001, including the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, will top half a trillion dollars, according to an internal assessment by the nonpartisan Congressional Research Service completed last week.

The spike in operating costs -- including a 20 percent increase over last year in Afghanistan, where the mission now costs about $370 million a week -- comes even though troop levels in both countries have remained stable. The reports attribute the rising costs in part to a higher pace of fighting in both countries, where insurgents and terrorists have increased their attacks on US and coalition troops and civilians.

Another major factor, however, is ``the building of more extensive infrastructure to support troops and equipment in and around Iraq and Afghanistan," according to the report. Based on Defense Department data, the report suggests that the construction of so-called semi-permanent support bases has picked up in recent months, making it increasingly clear that the US military will have a presence in both countries for years to come.

The United States maintains it is not building permanent military bases in Iraq or Afghanistan, where the local population distrusts America's long-term intentions.

But for the first time, a major factor in the growth of war spending is the result of a dramatic rise in ``investment costs," or spending needed to sustain a long-term deployment of American troops in the two countries, the report said. These include the additional purchases of protective equipment for troops, such as armored Humvees, radios, and night-vision equipment; new tanks and other equipment to replace battered gear from Army and Marine Corps units that have been deployed numerous times in recent years; and growing repair bills for damaged equipment, what the military calls ``reset" costs.

----



[ September 30, 2006, 09:57 PM: Message edited by: Jay the Obscure ]

--------------------
Great is the guilt of an unnecessary war.
~ohn Adams

Once again the Bush Administration is worse than I had imagined, even though I thought I had already taken account of the fact that the Bush administration is invariably worse than I can imagine.
~Brad DeLong

You're just babbling incoherently.
~C. Montgomery Burns

Registered: Mar 1999  |  IP: Logged
Jay the Obscure
Liker Of Jazz
Member # 19

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Via Dan Froomkin here is the fist sentence to the New York Times review of Bob Woodward's book State of Denial

quote:
In Bob Woodward's highly anticipated new book, 'State of Denial,' President Bush emerges as a passive, impatient, sophomoric and intellectually incurious leader, presiding over a grossly dysfunctional war cabinet and given to an almost religious certainty that makes him disinclined to rethink or re-evaluate decisions he has made about the war.


--------------------
Great is the guilt of an unnecessary war.
~ohn Adams

Once again the Bush Administration is worse than I had imagined, even though I thought I had already taken account of the fact that the Bush administration is invariably worse than I can imagine.
~Brad DeLong

You're just babbling incoherently.
~C. Montgomery Burns

Registered: Mar 1999  |  IP: Logged
TSN
I'm... from Earth.
Member # 31

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Now, just replace "In Bob Woodward's highly anticipated new book, 'State of Denial'" with "To anyone who's been paying attention the past three years or so".
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Jason Abbadon
Rolls with the punches.
Member # 882

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Ah....but that's the trick: getting anyone to really pay attention when it's all so bleak.
Easier by far to just watch Lost instead and go to sleep.

--------------------
Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering.
-Aeschylus, Agamemnon

Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Jay the Obscure
Liker Of Jazz
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This just in...the Air Force needs emergency funding just to haul all the dead and wounded out of Iraq and Afghanistan.

Via Americablog comes this Washington Post story:

quote:
Air Force said to seek $50 bln emergency funds

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. Air Force is asking the Pentagon's leadership for a staggering $50 billion in emergency funding for fiscal 2007 -- an amount equal to nearly half its annual budget, defense analyst Loren Thompson of the Lexington Institute said on Tuesday.

The request is expected to draw criticism on Capitol Hill, where lawmakers are increasingly worried about the huge sums being sought "off budget" to fund wars, escaping the more rigorous congressional oversight of regular budgets.

Another source familiar with the Air Force plans said the extra funds would help pay to transport growing numbers of U.S. soldiers being killed and wounded in Iraq and Afghanistan.

----

 -

--------------------
Great is the guilt of an unnecessary war.
~ohn Adams

Once again the Bush Administration is worse than I had imagined, even though I thought I had already taken account of the fact that the Bush administration is invariably worse than I can imagine.
~Brad DeLong

You're just babbling incoherently.
~C. Montgomery Burns

Registered: Mar 1999  |  IP: Logged
Jay the Obscure
Liker Of Jazz
Member # 19

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Additionally, were going with the same team that got us to this point.

quote:
Bush says Rumsfeld, Cheney should stay

WASHINGTON -
President Bush said Wednesday he wants Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and Vice President
Dick Cheney to remain with him until the end of his presidency, extending a job guarantee to two of the most-vilified members of his administration.

"Both those men are doing fantastic jobs and I strongly support them," Bush said in an interview with The Associated Press and others.

----

Democrats and Republicans alike have called for Rumsfeld's resignation, arguing he has mishandled the war in Iraq where more than 2,800 members of the U.S. military have died since the U.S.-led invasion in March 2003. Cheney has faced sharp criticism for his hardline views. In recent polling, less than 40 percent of respondents had a favorable view of Cheney and about a third had a favorable view of Rumsfeld.

Bush said he valued Cheney's advice and judgment.

"The good thing about Vice President Cheney's advice is, you don't read about it in the newspaper after he gives it," the president said. While Cheney was re-elected with Bush for four years, there has been recurring speculation that he might step down, perhaps for health reasons. As a practical matter, Bush could ask the vice president to leave if he wanted.

Bush credited Rumsfeld with overseeing wars in Iraq and
Afghanistan while overhauling the military. "I'm pleased with the progress we're making," the president said. He replied in the affirmative when asked if he wanted Rumsfeld and Cheney to stay with him until the end.

Responding to Bush, Sen. Charles Schumer (news, bio, voting record), D-N.Y., said, "With all due respect, the president just doesn't get it. We need a change in the Iraq strategy, but with Rumsfeld running the show we'll never get it."

----



--------------------
Great is the guilt of an unnecessary war.
~ohn Adams

Once again the Bush Administration is worse than I had imagined, even though I thought I had already taken account of the fact that the Bush administration is invariably worse than I can imagine.
~Brad DeLong

You're just babbling incoherently.
~C. Montgomery Burns

Registered: Mar 1999  |  IP: Logged
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