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» Flare Sci-Fi Forums » Community » The Flameboard » Yet Again: The Political Compass (Page 3)

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Author Topic: Yet Again: The Political Compass
Guardian 2000
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I don't know why I'm missing from the charts, since I'm the one who always remains closest to dead center.

Economic Left/Right: 0.62
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -0.72

Of course, like Saltah'na, that just means I get called a right-wing extremist.

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G2k's ST v. SW Tech Assessment

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TSN
I'm... from Earth.
Member # 31

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Well, you weren't on the chart because, as far as I know, this is the first time you've posted your score. Unless you changed your name at some point, and I didn't realize it.
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WizArtist II
"How can you have a yellow alert in Spacedock? "
Member # 1425

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quote:
Originally posted by Guardian 2000:
I don't know why I'm missing from the charts, since I'm the one who always remains closest to dead center.

Economic Left/Right: 0.62
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -0.72

Of course, like Saltah'na, that just means I get called a right-wing extremist.

I'm pretty close to the bullseye myself. My curve made a nice little smiley face even.

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There are 10 types of people in the world...those that understand Binary and those that don't.

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Guardian 2000
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double

[ December 11, 2011, 11:32 AM: Message edited by: Guardian 2000 ]

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Guardian 2000
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quote:
Originally posted by TSN:
Well, you weren't on the chart because, as far as I know, this is the first time you've posted your score. Unless you changed your name at some point, and I didn't realize it.

(Searches ...)

Ah, crap. My bad, then. I did post in '09, but elsewhere . . . my Feb. '09 was Eco 1.12 Soc -0.51. In Aug. '10 (later in that same thread), Eco 0.88 and Soc -.05.

The resulting chart is a very tight group:

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chartlink

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G2k's ST v. SW Tech Assessment

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Saltah'na
Chinese Canadian, or 75% Commie Bastard.
Member # 33

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quote:
Originally posted by The Mighty Monkey of Mim:
Sanitation is always in demand, and probably not many people like to do it. Not that you mightn't have any point at all, but couldn't that be part of why they're well paid and have good benefits? Because they provide a service that's perpetually needed but which nobody really enjoys doing?

I do respect that as a valid point, and I do understand that it is a messy business. The problem that I have revolves around a sense of entitlement, in which they believe that they are the core of the city and nothing else, and therefore they deserve benefits as I, as a person working in a Private Company, can only dream of. I guess it is the constant arrogance of their media ads that pisses me off. My personal belief is that if you hate your job, leave, and find a better one. Don't make us pay for your piss-poor attitude, so suck it up. There are plenty of unemployed people who would take their jobs with lesser pay and benefits if it means that they can have some income.

Cartman: May I remind you that this issue has been in the front burner of Local Toronto Politics for more than 10 years. So yeah, I have brought it up in the past, but the more things try to "change" the more they stay the same. Truth is, we do have a mayor who is willing to do something about it, even if I don't agree with all of his viewpoints.

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"And slowly, you come to realize, it's all as it should be, you can only do so much. If you're game enough, you could place your trust in me. For the love of life, there's a tradeoff, we could lose it all but we'll go down fighting...." - David Sylvian
FreeSpace 2, the greatest space sim of all time, now remastered!

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Jason Abbadon
Rolls with the punches.
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Maybe try actually talking to your own harbage man sometime- you'll almost certainly find him to be more than the conclusion you've lept to based on what? Ads on TV you dont like?
It's not as though the garbage men filmed them.

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Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering.
-Aeschylus, Agamemnon

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Saltah'na
Chinese Canadian, or 75% Commie Bastard.
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I have actually. My own experience finds them to be rude and arrogant. They won't pick up your garbage unless you have it packaged the way they want it to be (which way that is just baffles me). They'll also threaten to permanently skip your driveway if you ask them why they didn't pick up your garbage on a particular day. This is exactly what happened to a co-worker after his garbage was skipped, apparently a racoon punched a hole in one of the garbage bags and the garbageman refused to take it out (it wasn't torn to shreds). When the co-worker asked him why his garbage was skipped, the garbageman drove off and didn't collect my co-worker's garbage for four weeks until he received an "apology". For what? A simple question?

This is the entitlement that I really dislike, especially amongst public sector employees. Pull this crap on the private sector and you'd be on your way out. Do this as a garbageman? No worries, you get reassigned elsewhere with the same pay.

As for the ads, they were commissioned by the union and portray the garbagemen as friendly, hard-working people. Perception is not always reality.

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"And slowly, you come to realize, it's all as it should be, you can only do so much. If you're game enough, you could place your trust in me. For the love of life, there's a tradeoff, we could lose it all but we'll go down fighting...." - David Sylvian
FreeSpace 2, the greatest space sim of all time, now remastered!

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Jason Abbadon
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But you can easily avoid them if you like- and it's not like you want their supposedly cushy job or anything....right?

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Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering.
-Aeschylus, Agamemnon

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Saltah'na
Chinese Canadian, or 75% Commie Bastard.
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Their job should not be cushy. Period.

Unfortunately, the union has bought slots on both TV and radio to broadcast their propaganda. So really can't avoid them either.

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"And slowly, you come to realize, it's all as it should be, you can only do so much. If you're game enough, you could place your trust in me. For the love of life, there's a tradeoff, we could lose it all but we'll go down fighting...." - David Sylvian
FreeSpace 2, the greatest space sim of all time, now remastered!

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Saltah'na
Chinese Canadian, or 75% Commie Bastard.
Member # 33

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Also Jason, I wanted to address this particular point of yours that I really like:

"I wonder, if we looked at what we were up to in each recorded year, would we find that personal or external events more shaped our political opinions?"

From 2001 to 2005, I had no career, and was pretty much struggling to make a living with very few accomplishments, and virtually no help from friends or family. I have had personal setbacks of which it took time for me to recover from. Starting from 2006, I was able to grow my career, and while I still had some monumental setbacks, again I was able to recover, and again without any help from friends or family.

Due to these events, I have since taken a mentality against the welfare state given that to obtain goals in life requires hard work on your own. You won't always get what you want, but you take your own accomplishments, however small or large they can be, and grow on it. I have started to tire of people who say they can't do anything more to improve their life and always rely on others (read government) to help them when, I believe, the ability to help themselves is always within reach.

Toronto's outside workers union are basically begging to maintain their standard of living instead of adapting to ever changing economic conditions. That is called entitlement.

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"And slowly, you come to realize, it's all as it should be, you can only do so much. If you're game enough, you could place your trust in me. For the love of life, there's a tradeoff, we could lose it all but we'll go down fighting...." - David Sylvian
FreeSpace 2, the greatest space sim of all time, now remastered!

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Jason Abbadon
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Well, maybe it's that way in Toronto- never having been there, I have no experience with your city. Maybe garbagemen have it easy there- down here that job seems to shorten lifespans (due to fumes and exposure to god knows what).
And no, it's not easy to just chuck it and find something else to do.

Speaking for things down my way, there are millions of people hunting for any employment possible- and many have gotten the idea to return to school to improve their chances at scoring a good paying job, not realising that hundreds of thousands of college graduates are already out there looking for anything- and they have experience! And of course, the people making student loans have not become any less predatory- that new two year degre is going to cost upwards of 40K on average.
That's one big student loan payment on top of everything else- and that's assuming you find a job!

Then add in having a family to support...I see no wrong in society helping those people. they are neither lazy nor looking for a handout- asking for help for your family's sake, at the cost of pride, is itself a kind of nobility.
Of course there are abusers of the system, but they are the extreme rarity, not the norm- possibly that's why the media fixates on them.

Youd never know it from television, but things down here in the states are still very dire for many families- while campaign contributors can rest assured their excesses are insured at taxpayer expense- the same taxpayers big business fires and outsources the job overseas of.

If Bank Of america, Citigroup and dozens of other billion dollar companies can get free money from the government, why not real people trying to survive?
Those are the people villified as lazy and somehow a drain on society- that those people need to suck it up and "do what it takes" to survive.

Fuck the people that say that shit- all the armchair cable pundits and congressional milionaires can go to hell.


As to your own experiences, did you ever look into public assistance when times were tough for you? It could be that there were recources available to you that you did not take advantage of.

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Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering.
-Aeschylus, Agamemnon

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Saltah'na
Chinese Canadian, or 75% Commie Bastard.
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Yes, I did take public assistance. Employment insurance to be exact. You have to pay in to the system in order to qualify for this kind of assistance.

The big difference is that I saw that as a fallback and a tool to assist me while I was looking for a way to make ends meet. The first time, I was able to top up my benefits by taking part in a job creation program provided by the government. It didn't work out exactly as I planned, but it did help. The second time, I did not qualify as I was considered to be in a growth industry (IT) as well as my experience. The Occupy movement has made statements that such government assistance should be extended to everyone, regardless of their situation. I do not agree with that sentiment, as it encourages the lazy and increases the sense of entitlement that the Occupy movement is so full of.

Now I don't disagree with all forms of government assistance, and you did hit the nail about abusers in the system. I also will state that in both years that I have relied on public assistance (2002 and 2009), there has been no change in unemployment benefits (not even accounting for inflation), so I agree that it is unfortunate. But I did manage to survive and am now back to my feet again. I may be in a lesser position now than I was 3 years ago, but again, you learn to adapt and try to grow within your situation. The Occupy movement does not encourage people to try to grow from their situation and is basically holding people back from their full potential.

As for the banks, I do believe that the bailouts were necessary in order to minimize collateral damage, because if they did not receive the bailouts, the damage to the economy would be far worse than the value of these bailouts. That said, the banks need to understand that these bailouts should be considered a LOAN, and therefore needs to be paid back to the government. I do not see that happening, and that I believe is very unfortunate. If GM and Chrysler were able to secure bailout funds and pay them back to the government, why haven't banks? There's your drain right there. Not to mention that they were the ones who got us in this mess due to the silly loopholes and lack of regulation on who to give money to. How can ANYONE extend mortgages to people who are not qualified? Whose boneheaded idea was this?

I think part of it is that Canada's laws do not allow the financial and employment abuse that is rampant in the states. This is why our banks are in better shape, and the lower taxes and benefits here are a tool to keep companies here instead of being outsourced overseas. You could say that what the U.S. is going through is the result of rampant free market capitalism, but there were no rules in place to keep things in check and that is why I believe you guys are in this problem that you are in now.

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"And slowly, you come to realize, it's all as it should be, you can only do so much. If you're game enough, you could place your trust in me. For the love of life, there's a tradeoff, we could lose it all but we'll go down fighting...." - David Sylvian
FreeSpace 2, the greatest space sim of all time, now remastered!

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Jason Abbadon
Rolls with the punches.
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quote:
The Occupy movement has made statements that such government assistance should be extended to everyone, regardless of their situation. I do not agree with that sentiment, as it encourages the lazy and increases the sense of entitlement that the Occupy movement is so full of.
I dont know where you get your news from but all the interviews I've seen with the people at OWS and the people I personally know at Occupy Miami have no such "sense of entitlement".
They're not looking for a free ride- what most of them are looking for is a bit of fair play- that the people resposible for the loss of so many jobs and wealth face prosecution, not record bonuses.
The other major desire (which I also share) is for a constitional ammendment banning campaign contributions over a certain dollar amount- and a overruling of the Citizens United decision (which only such an ammendment can accomplish). A means of accountibility and transparantcy, in other words to the voters- a return to the founding principle of "One person one vote" wherein a small percentage (say one percent) holds the political decisions of the majority hostage- deciding everything from social programs to which wars to fight, based on their own desires and greed.

I have yet to see anyone asking to never work again- or even for European style protections- only for the means to cover basic needs while looking for a job- you know, the jobs that are being outsources with help from US taxpayers, which the unemployed certainly were until recently.

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Jason Abbadon
Rolls with the punches.
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Speaking of accountibility, or shocking lack thereof....
SEC Charges Ex fannie/Freddie CEOs with fraud.
quote:
According to the lawsuit, Fannie and Freddie misrepresented their exposure to subprime loans in reports, speeches and congressional testimony.

Fannie told investors in 2007 that it had roughly $4.8 billion worth of subprime loans on its books, or just 0.2 percent of its portfolio. That same year, Mudd told two congressional panels that Fannie’s subprime loans represented didn’t exceed 2.5 percent of its business.

The SEC says Fannie actually had about $43 billion worth of products targeted to borrowers with weak credit, or 11 percent of its holdings.

Freddie told investors in late 2006 that it held between $2 billion and $6 billion of subprime mortgages on its books. And Syron, in a 2007 speech, said Freddie had “basically no subprime exposure,” according to the suit.

The SEC says its holdings were actually closer to $141 billion, or 10 percent of its portfolio in 2006, and $244 billion, or 14 percent, by 2008



So, they lied under oath to Congress, then acted shocked when the huse of cards collapsed and THEN asked for $150 billion in taxpayer money to stay afloat, then patted themselves on the back for saving their companies and collected obscene bonuses for doing such a great job.

quote:
Mudd was paid more than $10 million in salary and bonuses in 2007, according to company statements.
Syron made more than $18 million in 2007, according to company statements.




18 million bucks to lie to Congress and make the financial system tank? Good deal if you can get it, I guess.


This- THIS is what people are protesting- the fact that until now these guys were never even charged with a crime- and it's so unlikely that they'll face crimminal charges as to make the entire affair a publicity stunt- even if they were fined millions each, what would it possibly matter to men that made 10 million dollars or more yearly?

This is why the system is totally broken.


Best of all- pundits on the right will call this "class warfare" as though these assholes are being persecuted.


Another almost impossible to believe news...
Direct Elections Are A THREAT To America!
The old fear of "Voter Fraud" to supress...voters strikes yet again!
Why does anyone listen to a man that seems to be a human/turtle hybrid?
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Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering.
-Aeschylus, Agamemnon

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