posted
On the subject of Christian extremism in another thread, I'm reminded of my own church. It's not cultish. The people are nice and friendly. And sometimes I even enjoy the sermons.
But two of their viewpoints I cannot stand. One, the rejection of homosexuals. And two, the belief in Creation.
Okay, so it says that God doesn't like homosexuality or something to that effect in the Bible. My church even tried to boycott Disney once (not much effect, but I don't mind it because the fewer people at Disneyland, the shorter the lines are), and my reaction then was, "whoa, I thought they were only doing this in the rural South!" This contradicts everything they teach us in church. What they show is practically hatred for homosexuals, even if they don't say it is. I can't understand how we're supposed to treat people of different races equally and not treat homosexuals the same way. Unless they operate on the basis that homosexuals CHOOSE their sexual preference, which I don't believe they do. Anybody who can please clear this up. How can people ignore passages in the Bible about submissive wives and the evils of mentruation (a man who has sex with a woman having her period is supposedly stoned to death in the Old Testament times, or so I remember reading) but take a stand against homosexuality? People sort of "choose" what they like to hear from the Bible and ignore the rest.
Er, I'll post my second point about 19 hours later. I gotta go get dinner, catch a plane, and go HOME!
------------------ "I have come to the conclusion that one man is called a disgrace, that two are called a law firm, and that three on the law become a congress! And by God I have had this Congress!" --John Adams, "1776"
posted
Oh, and BTW, it's really frustrating those same people think if you are pro-gay you can only be a gay yourself. As if all other people should "know better"
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
It's become my belief that church's--or organized religion--need an enemy. The whole God vs Devil War is so twisted it's ammusing. Preach peace but engage in war.
I don't know. . .
------------------ What do you mean I'm not kind. Just not you're kind. --Dave Mustaine "Peace Sells" MEGADETH
posted
How can a war against evil be a bad thing? Men killing men is bad, but men fighting their own evil? That's great! If everyone on the planet took up the cause of the fight against evil, then the world would be a much better place.
And RW, I am in extreme opposition to your suggestion of throwing the Bible away. The problem's with Christianity, and there are some, is not with the Bible, but with the people who twist it to their idea of what is right.
Tora, you're right. Those people are only taking from the Bible what they want. They're attacking those who sin, but are sinning doing it. *Sigh* Those people need to sit down and really read the Bible, all of it, not just what they want to see.
------------------ Josh: I think they're getting to know each other a bit too well, if you catch my drift. Me: Oh, I agree. I think they're spending too much time together, that is of course, if you catch my drift. Asher: I think he's *ucking her, and he's cheating on his wife, and he's risking his marriage, and if his wife finds out about it she'll leave him and take their son, and his life will be ruined. If you catch my drift...
posted
When reading the bible, one must consider how long ago the thing was written, AND how many times the thing has been interpreted since it's come to us today. The origional version was written in a different language, and anyone who's taken foreign language classes knows that things LOOSE something in translation. Now, there are many traditions that were started back then that do not exist today, For instance the lack of eating meat... because back then people were less developed. God told them not to eat meat back then because they couldn't cook it well enough on their fires and he didnt' want them to die. However, now we can cook meat just right, and so we can eat it. There's another passage in the bible that is commonly misinterpreted ... The part where Jesus says "It's harder to get into heaven than it is to get through the Eye of the Needle" ... People today think of the eye of the needle as that tiny ass hole you have to get a piece of thread through when you want to sew something. However, in the time the bible was originally written, the "Eye of the Needle" was a trading passageway in Palestine that was always crowded with merchants, and therefore hard to get through. As Tora said, there are many parts of the bible that people commonly ignore now, because "That just doesn't make sense now" .. and "We're living in the 90's". I personally believe that the reason homosexuals get so much of a beating by the completely radical christians (obviously not all christians are like those really radical ones) lately is because they can't beat up other races, and they are just simply running out of scapegoats. They need something to preach against. There is actually only ONE passage in the bible about it, it's about three sentences long, and open to a very broad interpretation. People use whatever scripture they want to defend their actions. As for the God/Devil thing ... the Devil and Satan are Christian creations. They didn't exist before the Christian faith did, and so therefore it makes you wonder if they really exist at all. People need something to fear. How else would people turn to the christian faith, unless there was something else out there that was worse, someplace they were going to end up being if they didn't follow the "good" path? Who can recognize the light of the moon unless they've seen the dark, as well? ....
As for the Christians themselves, and the christian faith as a whole .... it is the priests that misinterpret, or go overboard, and not the faith itself that there is a problem with. There are many passages in the bible that serve to educate in very good ways.... One should not throw out the bible just because other people have mistreated it. That is just as absurd as banning a book because one person did something bad after reading it, or perhaps shutting off internet access because your child found something bad there. It is the person interpreting that we should try and avoid, not the bible.
Anyways... that's my theory.
------------------ Ring this little golden bell And see what changes with it's knell Or Wonder, till it drives you mad... What would have happened if you HAD.
[This message was edited by Jubilee McGann on April 11, 1999.]
posted
-Thinks it is quite strange to see this thread on Sunday-
-Ahem-
This is probably pointless, but I feel called right now. (hehe)
The majority of Christians (and I mean those who are truly Christian) do not hate or fear homosexuals. It is just that the Bible tells us that these ppl are going to Hell, and we can't have ministers in our churches who we know for certain are going to Hell. I'll even give you some examples if you have a Bible to pick up.
I believe that like any other Christian vice that homosexuality comes from Satan, and that it is not the fault of the person that they have the problem. Yet, it is their responsiblity to clean up their lives.
I personally believe that if God can turn Deion Sanders (and others) into a Christian then He can turn a homosexual into a Christian, too.
About Creation: If you keep going back into Evolution you get to a pt. where you can't explain where the elements that mixed into the Big Bang came from. I think they came from God. The 7 Days also aren't given a time span; 7 days to God are an eternity. Remember, we are the ones that decided a day was 24 hours.
posted
First of all, homosexuality is not something that can be changed. It is completely natural process. In overpopulation of rats experiments, they noticed homosexual activity. Homosexuality is one of natures ways of limiting the population. One can't be 'changed' to straight, as some christian groups would have you believe. Its something that person is born with. They can't be converted, and its not a lifestyle they choose.(Think about it, who the hell would choose to be tortured and used as a target by many many hate groups?). Second of all, my sister is a homosexual. She is also one of the nicest people I know. Its hard to believe that God would condemn her just for being born that way.
On Creation vs. Evolution, I have studied much on the matter. I have been lied to on many accounts by certain disillusioned Christians. All during high school I had to put up with people telling me I was going to Hell because I believed in Evolution, and not "God's way".
I have read much research on evolution, and the Bible, as well as nebular theory, and I came to the conclusion that they are very similar. I believe that Evolution and Creation are the same thing, given that latter is a metaphoric description the former. I stand by this reasoning, because I have come to terms on them on my own, and not what someone else has told me. I believe that science is the how and the what, whereas the Bible is the why.
------------------ "Bickering is pointless." - Spock, Miri "I'm real easy to get along with most of the time, but I don't like bullies, and I don't like threats." - Janeway, State of Flux
posted
The problem here as I see it is one of truth, and what people believe to be truth. From the point of view of "hard line" Christians, who believe in the bible, this is the word of their God, and as such is truth, and anyone who contradicts that is contradicting God. It is nearly impossible to argue with someone like this, because you cannot argue against absolute fact, which the word of God is. These people will ignore facts, they will ignore what they see and hear because they believe that what they say is echoing the word of god. They will not, therefore, consider that homosexuals may very well be decent, hardworking citizens. I have noticed that the same thing happens in many other debates, including creation vs. evolution.
I happen to be a strong believer in progress, and am not a religious person, and believe that society will move forward, dragging along these people or simply leaving them behind.
------------------ "Sometimes you get the bear, and sometimes the bear gets you." -Commander Riker, USS Enterprise
[This message was edited by Chimaera on April 11, 1999.]
posted
So let me take this time to come out of the closet. .. If you all didn't know already, wich most of you do. I am a woman preferring bisexual, and most of the time I just call myself a Lesbian because it's easier. I grew up my entire life being told that what I was thinking was wrong, that I was going to hell, and that the devil had possessed me. I tried everything to get my mind off it, from dating men all over the place, to drugs, to alcohol, and finally, a few years ago, ended up in a hospital with a slit wrist because I just couldn't take the conflict going on inside me. It was not my fault that I looked at women and was attracted to them. It's not something I can change about me, becuase I have tried. It's not a "lifestyle" ... and I've tried to convert myself back to "the right way" enough to know that it just doesn't happen that way. I have, since the hospital incident, learned to accept myself, to love myself, and to respect what I've been born as. And you know what? ... I feel more loved now by the God/dess than I ever did when I hated myself for what I was born to be. If the God/dess didn't make homosexuals, there wouldn't be any (as I have said before) and Jeff is right when he states that WHY would we CHOOSE the kind of torture we put up with? All of the Goddesses creations are created out of love, and she loves every single one of them, even the homosexual ones. Anything else just doesn't make sense.
------------------ Ring this little golden bell And see what changes with it's knell Or Wonder, till it drives you mad... What would have happened if you HAD.
posted
Well, I believe that if you wanted to, Jubilee, after a lot of prayer and time; that you could become a hetersexual if YOU WANTED to. But, that is something that you have to decide for yourself.
I believe it is like anything else, like say, an addiction to porn. You have to want to get rid of it to get rid of it.
Oh, and I don't believe you chose your preference either, hon! ------------------ Wheeelersburg Correctional Facility Inmate #05301999
[This message was edited by bryce on April 11, 1999.]
[This message was edited by bryce on April 11, 1999.]
posted
I'm going to have to disagree with you there, Bryce. I may not be homosexual (and some may not consider me heterosexual because of my lackluster love life, but that's another story) but I can speak with extreme certainty that homosexuality or even bisexuality is a lifestyle that cannot be changed. One of my friends discovered that he was gay, and being the upright Christian that he was he immediately hated himself and tried to change. I stood by and watched as he self-destructed. I will be the first one to tell you that it is not a pretty sight. I now understand what my friends experience every time I slip into a major episode of depression. My friend's psyche crumbled before my eyes and the church was in full support of mentally brutal act. This was the final event in a long series of events that triggered my renouncing my Christianity.
------------------ "Some people call me the Space Cowboy. Yeah! Some call me the Gangster of Love. Some people call me Maurice. Whoo hoo! 'Cause I speak of the Pompatus of Love!" - Steve Miller Band's The Joker
posted
bryce, you speak as if this were an addiction! An addiction is an acquired characteristic. Homosexuality is NOT acquired. It something one is born with.
Homosexuals can no more stop being homosexual than stop breathing.
------------------ "Bickering is pointless." - Spock, Miri "I'm real easy to get along with most of the time, but I don't like bullies, and I don't like threats." - Janeway, State of Flux
posted
See Jeff, that is where we conflict, cause I believe it is acquired. I believe it is another thing (old versions of the Bible call these 'demons') Satan has put into the world to block us from entering Heaven. It's like alcoholism or anything else to me.
I'm not trying to bicker;I'm just trying to answer the thread's question.
Oh, and Siegfied I'm sorry about your friend. And you too, but did your buddy or you ever seek out professional Christian advice on the matter?
btw, I'm right now talking to a friend on AOL IM, who was bi, but is not now. ------------------ Wheeelersburg Correctional Facility Inmate #05301999
[This message was edited by bryce on April 11, 1999.]
[This message was edited by bryce on April 11, 1999.]
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