posted
Non sequitur. This question cannot be answered, as the Military surrendered (and the Emperor, whom they saw as God, called for everyone to lay down arms) after the bombs were dropped and before the Americans occupied Japan.
However, I believe such WAS the case in other places, such as Okinawa.
-------------------- "The best defense is not a good offense. The best defense is a terrifyingly accurate and devastatingly powerful offense, with multiply-overlapping kill zones and time-on-target artillery strikes." -- Laurence, Archangel of the Sword
Saltah'na
Chinese Canadian, or 75% Commie Bastard.
Member # 33
posted
Or was it the ENLISTED PILOTS?
Or are they still labelled civilians?
It does not matter if some civilians joined the Air Force just to ram the Yorktown or some other carrier. The point is that not everyone had (or wanted to have) some military involvement. And they died in Hiroshima.
Yes it ended the war.
But people still remember the civilians who died in that bombing. The Civilians whose only role in the War was death.
No wait, they should not be remembered, cuz they were not civilians, they were HEARTLESS SOLDIERS who maimed our American Brothers and sisters. Even those who only grew rice and sold sushi in the shop next door.
I'm sorry if I'm going off a rant. I am not trying to justify the actions of the Japanese in this War. I am also not trying to attack the use of Nuclear Bombs in Hiroshima and Nagasaki (the Chinese also fought the war against Japan). I am trying to fight any statement which comes close to saying that "those Jap civilians deserved what they got". But one has to remember that not everyone has one train of thought, as Omega appears to profess.
[ September 14, 2001: Message edited by: Tahna Los ]
-------------------- "And slowly, you come to realize, it's all as it should be, you can only do so much. If you're game enough, you could place your trust in me. For the love of life, there's a tradeoff, we could lose it all but we'll go down fighting...." - David Sylvian FreeSpace 2, the greatest space sim of all time, now remastered!
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
"Suicide operations, in fact, were viewed as the key to success in the defense of the homeland, as the Deputy Chief of the Army General Staff told an Imperial Conference in June 1945. High-spirited regular troops, supported by the fanatically patriotic citizenry in death-defying combat, would inflict fantastic losses on those invaders who managed to get ashore."
"All material and psychological resources could be combined to defend hearth and home, to annihilate the invaders on soil that was known and loved. The motto would truly be, "Victory or Death!"-and the spirit would be that of the special attack corps."
"Japan at War" Dr. K Jack Bauer
-------------------- "The best defense is not a good offense. The best defense is a terrifyingly accurate and devastatingly powerful offense, with multiply-overlapping kill zones and time-on-target artillery strikes." -- Laurence, Archangel of the Sword
posted
First of One, what exactly are you trying to prove? If you think about it, if the United States were ever invaded wouldn't many many MANY civilians take up arms as well against the enemy?
I agree, the two nuclear bombs was a necessary evil, but don't go around thinking that innocent people weren't hurt, whether they were going to be future enemies or not.
-------------------- "Tragedy is when I cut my finger, Comedy is when you walk into an open sewer and die."-Mel Brooks
Shik
Starship database: completed; History of Starfleet: done; website: probably never
Member # 343
posted
quote:Originally posted by USS Vanguard: If you think about it, if the United States were ever invaded wouldn't many many MANY civilians take up arms as well against the enemy?
coughcoughRedDawncoughcough
-------------------- "The French have a saying: 'mise en place'—keep everything in its fucking place!"
posted
They (the invaders) USED nukes in 'Red Dawn.' (They also used firearms registration to round up and murder most of the folks with guns, but that's another argument).
"Opinionated?" Hardly. Opinion influenced by trends and knowledge, yes. Even WITHOUT the civilian contingent, attackers facing well-dug-in soldiers on familiar ground, even if the defenders' numbers are small, face the prospect of high losses. So yes, the use of the A-Bombs saved lives, as they made a massively costly invasion unnecessary (thus saving American lives that would have been lost) And gave the Japanese Army (and the civilians who might have joined them) a symbol of power they could surrender to (thus saving other Japanese soldiers' and civilians' lives), and pretty much made other bombing unnecessary (thus saving all the people who would have died as a result of continued conventional bombing.)
-------------------- "The best defense is not a good offense. The best defense is a terrifyingly accurate and devastatingly powerful offense, with multiply-overlapping kill zones and time-on-target artillery strikes." -- Laurence, Archangel of the Sword
You also seem to think the Soviets and Cubans mobilizing a large enough force to invade the U.S. without raising the eyebrows of any clerk at any intelligence organization (not that ours have done a really smash-bang job in the past few years) is possible.
You also seem to think that you can't at the same time recognize the strategic value of dropping a nuclear bomb, while also recognizing the tragedy of the innocent civilians -- unless you honestly expect that young Japanese children, babies, etc. would've been aiming rifles at our soldiers -- killed in such an action.
posted
And what's your reasoning behind dropping two bombs? Since it's obviously not going to be that the US wanted to test two different types, what is it? You say that Hiroshima had a military base, did Nagasaki? And what about the surrounding area?
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
Registered: Mar 1999
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capped
I WAS IN THE FUTURE, IT WAS TOO LATE TO RSVP
Member # 709
posted
Ever read 'The Onion'?.. im flipping through their old headline book
Friday August 10, 1945 reads as follows
"Nagasaki Bombed 'Just for the Hell of it'
with the sub head lines "Second A-Bomb Would Have Just Sat Around Anyway, Say Generals" and "French Surrender to U.S."
and the picture carries the caption "U.S. filmmakers and photographers were thankful to get a second chance to capture pictures of the A-Bomb mushroom cloud"
sorry.. just a little levity if you wanted it
-------------------- "Are you worried that your thoughts are not quite.. clear?"
capped
I WAS IN THE FUTURE, IT WAS TOO LATE TO RSVP
Member # 709
posted
I hardly think that 'Well, they didnt tell me NOT to' is a good reason to drop a nuclear weapon
-------------------- "Are you worried that your thoughts are not quite.. clear?"
Registered: Sep 2001
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OnToMars
Now on to the making of films!
Member # 621
posted
Um...we dropped the first and Japan flipped us off. So we told them we had a thousand more and would nuke every city they had into dust unless they surrendered. They flipped us off. So we dropped the second (and our last). They surrendered.
-------------------- If God didn't want us to fly, he wouldn't have given us Bernoulli's Principle.
Registered: Jun 2001
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