Saltah'na
Chinese Canadian, or 75% Commie Bastard.
Member # 33
posted
*builds bomb shelter*
-------------------- "And slowly, you come to realize, it's all as it should be, you can only do so much. If you're game enough, you could place your trust in me. For the love of life, there's a tradeoff, we could lose it all but we'll go down fighting...." - David Sylvian FreeSpace 2, the greatest space sim of all time, now remastered!
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Well, I'd like to believe nobody here is a follower of anyone.
That said, I think that the argument raised in refutation of each of those five claims is a solid one. This isn't to say I'm a total prissy-wissy pacificist or that these points taken together make any action in Afghanistan morally bankrupt. But they should make us a bit more conscientious or who's doing what to who for what reason.
[ November 03, 2001: Message edited by: The_Tom ]
-------------------- "I was surprised by the matter-of-factness of Kafka's narration, and the subtle humor present as a result." (Sizer 2005)
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
There's nothing surprising and / or new in any of that. You only have to watch the BBC or pick up a news paper. I can see how you'd believe it if you watched FOX news. They're getting far too right for my liking.
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Remember, I'm from near Pittsburgh, I've heard of this group.
Calling them Left-Wing is like calling... em... Tyrannosaurus an 'extinct meat-eating lizard.'
Imagine all the things you think only the far-right does.. the paranoia, the conspiracy theories, the 'we're the only people who can ever be right, and all others are heretics who must be destroyed' mentality... and then imagine Liberals who behave that way. Now you're getting the picture.
Saltah'na
Chinese Canadian, or 75% Commie Bastard.
Member # 33
posted
I think what First is getting at is that previous threads have seen the Right harboring "conspiracy" and "paranoia" tendencies.
Conspiracy and Paranoia run rampant, from the right to the left.
These guys do make some interesting points. Lie #4 is probably their strongest point, while Lie #2 comes in second and Lie #3 a distant third. I don't quite agree with the last two.
Before anyone accuses them of being "scum-sucking Liberals who have nothing better to do than whine and complain", keep in mind that they DO have evidence to support their claims. It does not mean you have to follow them.
-------------------- "And slowly, you come to realize, it's all as it should be, you can only do so much. If you're game enough, you could place your trust in me. For the love of life, there's a tradeoff, we could lose it all but we'll go down fighting...." - David Sylvian FreeSpace 2, the greatest space sim of all time, now remastered!
posted
I didn't think #4 was very coherent at all. Profits for who? If the Caspian has the oil (and the Caspian is surrounded by Russia, Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan, Iran, and Armenia) isn't it reasonable to assume it would be getting either pumped out to the Persian Gulf or the Mediterranean - much shorter distances?
If it's India et al who need the oil, wouldn't it be the Indian's impetus to get the pipeline? And Afghanistan would profit from the 'rent' for the pipeline, if it were to go through the country, just as the Northern Alliance finances their economy from the sale of lapiz lazuli and other gemstones from the hills and caves of Afghanistan (from what I hear, the Afghans could have greatly improved their economic situation by focusing on the mineral and jewel industries)
And Bush wasn't in charge in 1996, so blaming decisions made then on him is irrational at best. They haven't explained how the conspiracy serves the interests they claim it serves.
-------------------- "The best defense is not a good offense. The best defense is a terrifyingly accurate and devastatingly powerful offense, with multiply-overlapping kill zones and time-on-target artillery strikes." -- Laurence, Archangel of the Sword
posted
They didn't say Bush in '96 ... they said the U.S. Government. Every commander-in-chief has a vested interest in making sure we lazy Americans get gas.
To be honest, the "agenda" they seem to be pushing is that the government lies to citizens, and is doing such now.
posted
"The government lies to citizens" - Urg, the Caveman.
Well, at least we know THAT tradition hasn't changed in the history of human civilization.
-------------------- "The best defense is not a good offense. The best defense is a terrifyingly accurate and devastatingly powerful offense, with multiply-overlapping kill zones and time-on-target artillery strikes." -- Laurence, Archangel of the Sword
posted
That's very nice, Rob. It's good to know you can still be evasive.
But what do you think of the individual points?
What about "Lie #5" (The Food Lie) ... are we doing enough to be able to sit back and honestly claim that we're doing enough to the innocent Afghanis that we pledged to do?
What about "Lie #4"? You seem to think its a criticism against President Bush, Rob, even though its quite clearly a criticism against the Government of the U.S.
"Lie #3"? What kind of government are we going to establish once we get rid of the Taliban? We're not just going to turn it over to the Northern Alliance, are we?
And "Lie #2"? Why did we bail out the Airlines, and not provide any assistance for those people who lost their jobs as a result? One would hope some Red Cross money will get to them, for re-training or to help them until they find a new job, but, hey ... who cares?
"Lie #1"? Terrorism is a tactic. How do you fight a tactic?
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