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» Flare Sci-Fi Forums » Community » The Flameboard » Surprise, mom! I'm fighting for the Taliban (Page 1)

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Author Topic: Surprise, mom! I'm fighting for the Taliban
Saltah'na
Chinese Canadian, or 75% Commie Bastard.
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From the Globe and Mail

Surprise, mom! I'm fighting for the Taliban

Catholic family in San Francisco suburbs shocked to see son captured in Afghanistan

By DOUG SAUNDERS
Tuesday, December 4, 2001 – Page A1


LOS ANGELES -- Teenage rebellion is something of an industry in the San Francisco Bay area, but John Walker's case is extreme even by local standards: It's not every kid who becomes a PoW in a holy war against his own country.

Somehow this 20-year-old, a shy, skinny Irish Catholic kid who went to high school in the plush northern suburbs of San Francisco, transformed himself into an Islamic holy warrior, a member of an elite branch of the Taliban known as Answar (the helpers), personally trained by Osama bin Laden.

Mr. Walker had disappeared from family and friends for months until Saturday, when TV cameras picked up images of a bearded, grimy Taliban warrior being pulled from a besieged prison fortress near Mazar-e-Sharif in northern Afghanistan.

He had fought at the siege of Kunduz and surrendered along with hundreds of other fighters. Among the 86 Taliban who had somehow survived a violent prisoner revolt and subsequent bombing, shelling, burning and flooding of the fortress a week ago was a smiling, pale man who called himself Abdul Hamid.

He was born John Phillip Walker, and the fact he had become a Taliban fighter came as quite the surprise to his parents in the prosperous suburb of San Anselmo.

His transformation began three years ago with a typical moment of youthful radicalism, when, at 17, he read the autobiography of Malcolm X and announced to his parents that he wanted to become a Muslim scholar. They figured it was a phase.

"It was clear he had developed a different point of view," Mr. Walker's father, a lawyer named Frank Lindh, said in an interview yesterday.

Mr. Lindh supported his son's new beliefs, even after he dropped out of high school to study at a local mosque, even when he made repeated trips to Yemen and Pakistan, ostensibly to study religion.

But Mr. Walker had not just been studying Arabic language and interpretations of the Koran.

Impressed with Afghanistan's fundamentalist movements during a visit, he joined the Taliban's elite foreign corps

The last his parents had heard, Mr. Walker was studying the Koran in Bannu, Pakistan.

Then he appeared on the television news.

"I was a student in Pakistan, studying Islam and came into contact with many people connected with Taliban," Mr. Walker said in a TV interview yesterday.

He was being held by U.S. forces in northern Afghanistan, with gunshot wounds to both legs.

Mr. Walker said he had become a "jihadi" and he was fighting for a pure Islamic state. He told reporters he had fought in Kashmir before joining the Taliban.

This is all more than a little surprising for his mother, who watched it all on TV in California. She believes that her son must have been out of his senses. "If he got involved with the Taliban he must have been brainwashed," she said. It is unclear where Mr. Walker's fate lies. As a U.S. citizen fighting with an enemy in war, he could be charged with treason, which carries a maximum penalty of death.

His parents just want to see their errant son. While they say they have no sympathy for the cause he has apparently embraced, they still say they are impressed with his dedication to Islam and his scholarly prowess. "I'm proud of John," Mr. Lindh said yesterday. "He's a really good boy. A really sweet boy."

[ December 04, 2001: Message edited by: Tahna Los ]



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"And slowly, you come to realize, it's all as it should be, you can only do so much. If you're game enough, you could place your trust in me. For the love of life, there's a tradeoff, we could lose it all but we'll go down fighting...." - David Sylvian
FreeSpace 2, the greatest space sim of all time, now remastered!

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Malnurtured Snay
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I wondered how long it would take for this to show up. Here's some more on it.

quote:
A case against Walker "would be a tricky thing to prosecute because the Constitution requires two eyewitnesses to the act of treason," University of North Carolina law professor Eric Muller said. "I would think somebody in the Justice Department will have to take a very careful look at this." Also, President Bush's military tribunals are limited to foreign nationals, not U.S. citizens.

Another possible avenue would be to charge American Taliban fighters with seditious conspiracy, which has a lower standard of proof. That's one of the charges that radical Islamic cleric Omar Abdel-Rahman, who plotted to blow up New York City landmarks, was convicted on in 1995. One of Abdel-Rahman's sons was captured while fighting for the Taliban in Afghanistan.




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Grokca
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When good Americans go bad. This Sunday on Fox.

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"and none of your usual boobery."
M. Burns

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capped
I WAS IN THE FUTURE, IT WAS TOO LATE TO RSVP
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My grandparents and i shared a chuckle at this story. I'm not sure whether or not i should feel bad for the kid or whether we should let him fry.

So .. I'll do both.

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"Are you worried that your thoughts are not quite.. clear?"


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PsyLiam
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Because, obviously, there's no chance he might be supporting the Taliban willingly. God forbid anyone disagree with the American way of life.

If he was executed, I can't see America's status as "leader of the free world" sticking without everyone laughing at the hypocrisy.

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Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.


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Malnurtured Snay
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Is it legal to execute or charge POWs? I don't mean the high-ups of the organizations, I mean the average Joe Blow foot soldier. We didn't put the common German soldier in prison after WWII -- we did try and imprison many of the Reich's leaders, however.

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USS Vanguard
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Not that I condone random executions, but what exactly is treason if not a disagreement with the government. Nathan Hale was tried for treason and was hanged because his beliefs didn't match that of the English Crown. Of course that situation is 200+ years removed, but you see my point. Or maybe not. In either case I don't believe he'll be executed, jail time maybe.

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"Tragedy is when I cut my finger,
Comedy is when you walk into an open sewer and die."-Mel Brooks

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capped
I WAS IN THE FUTURE, IT WAS TOO LATE TO RSVP
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We did, however, put American citizens on trial for sedition during World War II for voicing support for Adolf's reich right here in the US. And there is a big difference between putting a German national on trial for being drafted into his own country's military, than say if we found American youths who had embraced Adolf's ideals and joined the SS for some reason.

The differences here are that 1) The Taliban is not a country or government, but maintains its tax-exempt status as a religious group with guns. Theres some issue with exactly how to treat the POW's legal status. The 'foreign Taliban' are in the middle of this mess.
2) We have no idea what he thought he was doing. If he was incommunicado and thought he was fighting homeland infidels like the Northern Alliance, he could find himself a ticket home. Not likely though.
And besides .. how stupid was that. He'd quickly find himself a casualty, a paler-skinned than usual footnote in some really pointless middle eastern war that wasnt really on its way to solving anything about the muslim world. He'd have been better off taking an Islam studies course at the learning annex, i think.

but... if he hates his US upbringing and hates the western world and decided to join the Jihad which has been declared on Americans, then i say fuck him. Because I fly on planes and i have been in skyscrapers and if he considers me a target for his fucked up holy war, then i can surely support my own self defense by watching my government place him in front of a firing squad. Its his mistake for not officially renouncing his citizenship before he committed treason.

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"Are you worried that your thoughts are not quite.. clear?"


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TSN
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"'I'm proud of John,' Mr. Lindh said yesterday. 'He's a really good boy. A really sweet boy.'"

I'm forced to wonder why fucked-up people's parents never seem to be able to admit that their children are fucked up...?


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Sol System
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Being "good" and "sweet" does not mean "agree with you politically." Or even "will not kill you if given the chance." Lots of people who do bad things are good and sweet. That doesn't make them innocent.
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Lee
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Little fucker should count himself lucky he wasn't lynched like all the Pakistanis and Arabians who'd flocked to the Islamic Paradise on Earth, only to find that their fellow Muslims, once free of them, were really less than appreciative of all they'd done.

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Never mind the Phlox - Here's the Phase Pistols

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Aban Rune
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Treason: Violation of allegiance toward one's country or sovereign, especially the betrayal of one's country by waging war against it or by consciously and purposely acting to aid its enemies. (from the good folks at dictionary.com)

The key word here is action. To truly commit treason, you have to take action against something. If I disagree with, or refuse to support a country's policies, it's not treason. If I disagree with their policies and help the people that are trying to overrun them, it is.

Just thought I'd throw that in there. I don't really have an opinion one way or the other about the kid. I don't really think anyone has enough info to make that call yet.

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Cartman
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quote:
I'm forced to wonder why fucked-up people's parents never seem to be able to admit that their children are fucked up...?

There is of course absolutely no way this kid isn't fucked up.

"Everyone should want to be in the Federation!" - Eddington.

[ December 05, 2001: Message edited by: Mojo Jojo ]


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Lee
I'm a spy now. Spies are cool.
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As Yeats (or was it Keats?) said, "they fuck you up, your mum and dad, they may not mean to, but they do."

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Never mind the Phlox - Here's the Phase Pistols

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Omega
Some other beginning's end
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He IS "fucked up", as you so eloquently put it. Remember who we're talking about, here: someone who agrees with the TALIBAN. The Taliban, as in the most "fucked up" group on the planet?

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"This is why you people think I'm so unknowable. You don't listen!"
- God, "God, the Devil and Bob"

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