posted
Maybe not a single of you are familiar with the situation Argentina is living right now. Since our return to democracy, 18 years ago, we've been in our ups and downs. The main constants are: - The fight for power (and money from illicit govenrment acts) between the main two parties: Peronism and Radicals. - An ever-increasing debt, from $30 bil in '83 to $140 bil in 2001, to pay for a megalitic state giving jobs for votes and favors.
What's happening now? Since ex-president Menem (from the Peronist Party) left the chair in 1999, we got a radical, Fernando de la Rua, as president (almost 50% of the votes, in response to the corrupt and failing Menem).
In this two years, economic recession got worse thanks to the first measures that de la Rua and his cabinet took, like tax raises and state employees salary cuts. The first tax raises got worse, then there were more salary cuts, including pensionned people (some of them earn $150 a month, and the minimum for a person to leave with some dignity is $500).
Now, everything has exploded. The last measures to impede the constant flow of capitals from Argentina to foreign countries, seeking better winds for investment, left our reserves in a bare minimum, not enough to keep the convertibility between the Argentinian Peso and the US Dollar (where 1 Peso equals $1). What happened? They don't allow any cash extraction superior to $250 a week, be it from a person or an enterprise.
The whole pay circuit got cut. Nobody's getting their salaries in time. Some govt. employees are waiting for three or four months. Private employees suffer at least a 15-day delay (like me).
And now, we've been suffering raids to supermarkets and other businesses from hungry masses looking for something to eat (and I bet there's someone behind them, besides hunger, commanding them to do so). For that, our beloved prez declared nationwide state of siege...
If you want, get informed about it. I'd like some opinions, please.
[ December 19, 2001: Message edited by: Dr. Jonas Bashir ]
Registered: Jan 2001
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Saltah'na
Chinese Canadian, or 75% Commie Bastard.
Member # 33
posted
If I hear any mention of the word "LIBERAL" over here, then I'll smackem.
Socialist? Clearly. Doing a bad job? Yes. Socialists always do a bad job? Don't go there. Mostly, Fine.
Okay, now time to get down to the heart of the matter. Imbecility? Yes. Laissez-Faire, yes, given that every cause has an anticipated or unanticipated effect, or both. Corruption? I won't go that far. Not every bad politician is corrupt, he just appears that way.
I feel for ya, dude. Liberals up here wouldn't stand for that kind of stupidity, except for possibly Jean Chretien.
They don't allow any cash extraction superior to $250 a week, be it from a person or an enterprise.
Even I would agree with First or Omega stating that was nothing more than a suicidal tactic.
Somehow, I bet that JeffK and Jay would feel the same way.
-------------------- "And slowly, you come to realize, it's all as it should be, you can only do so much. If you're game enough, you could place your trust in me. For the love of life, there's a tradeoff, we could lose it all but we'll go down fighting...." - David Sylvian FreeSpace 2, the greatest space sim of all time, now remastered!
Registered: Mar 1999
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Radicals are supposedly center-left oriented, but always defended the agricultural powers of the country. They surged to oppose the conservatives around the 1910's.
Peronists, well, I think it's clear: center politics, populist measures and money wasting are their main tactics. But, Menem got himself allied with those (and sorry for this, Tahna, as I know it's not the same sense you're saying) with liberal economic views (meaning liberal in the traditional sense, not the US American view). Cavallo was his economy minister for 5 years, and he got us out of inflation and misery... for four years.
De la Rua got Cavallo AGAIN inside his cabinet, but the guy seems ruined, wasted: he proposed NOTHING of value to shock the country and make it walk again, for the last 9 months.
More information per request... Thanks for your opinion, it almost brought a tear to my eye...
-------------------- "This is why you people think I'm so unknowable. You don't listen!" - God, "God, the Devil and Bob"
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
It's interesting that you bring this up since I just read an article during the past week about Argentina making the first interest payment on a lot of the money that has been loaned to them. The article was not too enthusiastic about this for the very situations you describe, Jonas.
Based on what I've read (which is altogether not a whole lot) and what a couple of my friends have told me (they're from Argentina), I'd have to say that it is a combination of all three. And, I'll heartedly agree with Omega's "stupid politicians" statement.
There's rampant corruption. That's an unfortunate side-effect of government in general. As the saying goes, "Power corrupts." However, corruption seems to be much more prevalent in nations that are experiencing significant problems. Look at Mexico following Cardenas' term and Russia since the fall of the Soviet Union. It the politician's shift in priorities from the people to the person (themselves or possible the party).
I think the people in charge has also suffered from a huge amount of imbecility. Part of it is that in reference to allowing themselves to allow the Argetine people to suffer. It also seems to me, from what I remember, that the government over the past decade (and possibly further back) have made several bad decisions regarding their economy. Unfortunately, I can't remember specifics at this time (I'll have to brush up on it).
-------------------- The philosopher's stone. Those who possess it are no longer bound by the laws of equivalent exchange in alchemy. They gain without sacrifice and create without equal exchange. We searched for it, and we found it.
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
While you write, read and see about this I'll tell you the latest: people are marching in the streets, making noise with anything (cooking pots and pans, whistles, sirens) and going downtown, where the Government House is located. Despite the siege, they're going. By thousands. It's incredible.
They were in their buildings before. Now they're on the streets. I don't know how's this going to end.
BTW, the legality of the state of siege: supposedly the Congress should decree it, not the president, if the Congress is in session. Despite ordinaries have ended, they're STILL in sessions. Maybe the siege can be declared null. Who knows.
Registered: Jan 2001
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capped
I WAS IN THE FUTURE, IT WAS TOO LATE TO RSVP
Member # 709
posted
Wow.. sounds kind of serious. I hope that there isnt any unpleasantness.. what are your options if things get really hairy?
-------------------- "Are you worried that your thoughts are not quite.. clear?"
Registered: Sep 2001
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posted
I have a child. I have a wife. Either I resist and fight to the last of my breath, or I ran away to the Netherlands. Provided how much money I have, I think I'll just sit back and wait while they step on my rights.
I hope there's a pacific 'revolution' and the government realizes their wrongdoings. If there's still democracy, I look to collaborate with that.
Registered: Jan 2001
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posted
And along with that, President De La Rua's state of siege declaration is giving him the power to suspend certain constitutional rights. Among those are the rights to assemble and travel freely. It's also going to be giving the police greater arrest power. You got protesters gathered around the Casa Rosada and thousands of hungry citizens clashing against riot police to get into the stores in a about half a dozen of Argentina's largest cities. Then there's the chaos that has to be going on in the rural areas.
With all of the violence and turmoil that's going on, please keep your family safe.
-------------------- The philosopher's stone. Those who possess it are no longer bound by the laws of equivalent exchange in alchemy. They gain without sacrifice and create without equal exchange. We searched for it, and we found it.
Registered: Mar 1999
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Shik
Starship database: completed; History of Starfleet: done; website: probably never
Member # 343
posted
Got any Nazis left? They're fairly effective in shorign up governments.
Or you could invade the Falklands again. Maybe after Britain stomps your balls this time, they'll give you aid.
-------------------- "The French have a saying: 'mise en place'—keep everything in its fucking place!"
Registered: Jun 2000
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capped
I WAS IN THE FUTURE, IT WAS TOO LATE TO RSVP
Member # 709
posted
If i ever witness a massive disruption in civil order where i live, and have some degree of fear for my safety or at least the future of my country, remind me not to confide in assholes who will poke fun at the situation.
or at least to stomp their balls when they do.
[ December 20, 2001: Message edited by: CaptainMike ]
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Registered: Sep 2001
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posted
Believe me: I have a huge share of sense of humor, so I don't really care.
We don't know what'll happen with the state of siege. Maybe it will get softened or enforced at full strenght: that's for the Congress to tell. Meanwhile, we still have protestors, and we may still have looting.
Then again, the Congress would lift cash withdrawal limitations, and make some more resolutions to end (with a high degree of risk for our economy) the main problem that generated this extreme situation.
Registered: Jan 2001
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Shik
Starship database: completed; History of Starfleet: done; website: probably never
Member # 343
posted
Mike: nationalism=severely evil. That is all I shall say on the subject.
-------------------- "The French have a saying: 'mise en place'—keep everything in its fucking place!"
Registered: Jun 2000
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posted
Nationalism = a state of cultural consciousness that exalts one nation above all others.
That doesn't sound like evil, that sounds like simple 'hometown' pride... and in the case of the US, accuracy.
Don't give me this 'citizen of the world' nonsense. Most of 'the world' is a crappy place to live, dictatorships, religious tyrranies, communist regimes, civil wars, ethnic cleansing, banana republics... no, 'citizen of the world' is a step DOWN for many of us.
Still, what's happening in Argentina is horrid and shouldn't be made too much light of.
mathinks the central problem is here:
quote:- An ever-increasing debt, from $30 bil in '83 to $140 bil in 2001, to pay for a megalitic state giving jobs for votes and favors.
In other words, the same terrible marriage of socialism and cronyism that helped undo the USSR.
[ December 20, 2001: Message edited by: First of Two ]
-------------------- "The best defense is not a good offense. The best defense is a terrifyingly accurate and devastatingly powerful offense, with multiply-overlapping kill zones and time-on-target artillery strikes." -- Laurence, Archangel of the Sword
Registered: Mar 1999
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