posted
BE: As I recall, you're from Canada, so you can't make the claim that "Paki" is such a common insult that Bush should know it. It may be so where you are, but it isn't here. Besides, you can't even speak English half as well as he can (which is one hell of a feat), so you really can't complain.
And if "Pak(i)" isn't the legitimate term for them, where'd they get the word "Pakistan"? It works in every other case:
Afghanistan -> Afghan Kazakhstan -> Kazakh Kyrgyzstan -> Kyrgyz Tajikistan -> Tajik Turkmenistan -> Turkmen Uzbekistan -> Uzbek
So, presumably, the word "Pakistan" should come from some people called "Paks" or "Pakis".
Oh, also, regarding the Nigeria thing... Nigeria is named for the Niger River. "Nigger" is a corrupted pronunciation of "Negro", which means "black". So there's no connection between "nigger" and "Nigeria", other than the fact that they're both ultimately traceable back to the Latin word for "black". Alternatively, the slur "Paki" is derived directly from "Pakistan". So there's a basis for thinking a person from Pakistan is called a Paki. There's no basis for thinking a person from Nigeria is called a Nigger. A "Nigeri", maybe, but that's not even close to "nigger".
[ January 08, 2002: Message edited by: TSN ]
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
I've heard two explanations... One is that it's an acronym of various ethnic groups native to it... P for Pashtun, A for something, K for Kashmiri, etc.
The other that it literally translates to "Land of the Pure."
In any case, there have never ever been a people called "Paki."
-------------------- "I was surprised by the matter-of-factness of Kafka's narration, and the subtle humor present as a result." (Sizer 2005)
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posted
Tahna, I'm not sure where you're going by quoting me, but it certainly isn't down the racist trail.
I don't think Mr. Bush is a racist, I just don't think he cares enough to learn about things in general. That to me is a real failing in a person acting as president of the United States.
And I find this screw-up / make excuses a troubling trend. The country bumkin act only goes so far and it's gone far enough.
If you can't articulate your ideas better than that, you ought not be in the White House.
[ January 09, 2002: Message edited by: Jay the Obscure ]
-------------------- Great is the guilt of an unnecessary war. ~ohn Adams
Once again the Bush Administration is worse than I had imagined, even though I thought I had already taken account of the fact that the Bush administration is invariably worse than I can imagine. ~Brad DeLong
You're just babbling incoherently. ~C. Montgomery Burns
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Interesting... I didn't know it was such a recently invented word, either.
Well, anyway, while I'll obviously grant that he should have checked his lexicological facts before speaking, it's still a reasonable mistake.
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
It's a perfectly understandable mistake for Joe American to make when he's attempting to have a conversation about the situation in Pakistan over coffee at Krisy Kreme Donuts. As you've demonstrated, Tim, there is a certain logic that might suggest Pakistan is named after its native "Paki" inhabitants. Fine, well, and good. Let's not dub Joe American a Klansman over it.
It's a completely unacceptable mistake when George W. Bush makes it when acting as President of the United States and Superpower Peace Broker while attempting to convince the Pakistanis and Indians not to blow each other into itty-little bits with nuclear weapons. This guy has a team of guys around him at all times who get paid in a week what I make in a year to make sure that Bush doesn't unintentionally refer to a people by a name that is a broadly-recognized racial slur in the rest of the English-speaking world. And he manages to nonetheless. I mean, wasn't Bush theoretically working closely with Musharaf, since, oh, September 12? How exactly do you fail to figure out the correct term to refer to citizens of Pakistan after working with this "closest of friends" against a terror network for four months?
So, my question is, what next? Will Bush thank Jiang Zemin and his fellow Chinamen for their friendship? Intervene in the conflict with the Tamales in Sri Lanka? Visit the Irish in Dublin, then fly to Reykjavik and meet the Iceish?
[ January 08, 2002: Message edited by: The_Tom ]
-------------------- "I was surprised by the matter-of-factness of Kafka's narration, and the subtle humor present as a result." (Sizer 2005)
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Test for oh-so-brilliant, 'I know more than the US President' types:
1: What's the commonly accepted term for a person from Utah?
2: Is it acceptable to call a person from Waco a "Baptist?"
3: What do you call a person from Djibouti?
4: From Duluth?
5: Where's a MooseJavian from?
BONUS: Two acceptable terms for a person from Barbados.
------------- "It's hard to tell just what makes a shortened demonym insulting. 'Jap' for Japanese is highly offensive, but 'Brit' for Briton is not. The British use it themselves." -- N. Sally Hass, linguist.
[ January 09, 2002: Message edited by: First of Two ]
-------------------- "The best defense is not a good offense. The best defense is a terrifyingly accurate and devastatingly powerful offense, with multiply-overlapping kill zones and time-on-target artillery strikes." -- Laurence, Archangel of the Sword
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Well, the fifth one's Moose Jaw, Canada, but the rest...
-------------------- "This is why you people think I'm so unknowable. You don't listen!" - God, "God, the Devil and Bob"
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posted
1: What's the commonly accepted term for a person from Utah?
American.
2: Is it acceptable to call a person from Waco a "Baptist?"
I'd call them an American, too. Because, guess what ... ?
3: What do you call a person from Djibouti?
Djiboutian
4: From Duluth?
Since its in Minnesota, I'm going to say American. Because, they're American.
5: Where's a MooseJavian from?
Canada.
BONUS: Two acceptable terms for a person from Barbados.
Barbadian. Or Bajan.
This really doesn't excuse Bush any, as he had four months working closely with the Pakistanis to know that they were *CALLED* Pakistanis. If he'd called them "Pakis" on 9/11 he could've pled ignorance and had a better case.
Otherwise, Rob, you might have had a point. Sadly, you don't.
posted
Actually, he pointed out quite well that someone from any given place can have multiple terms for nationality/origin. If it wasn't for the insult aspect of it, Paki could easily be an acceptable alternative term for someone from Pakistan.
-------------------- "This is why you people think I'm so unknowable. You don't listen!" - God, "God, the Devil and Bob"
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posted
And yet you and I are both 'Americans', not 'Ameris'. Bush worked with Pakistan closely enough over the past few months to know they were called 'Pakistanis.'
posted
But as the Canadians are so happy to point out, "American" is just as inaccurate.
And I've heard Americans from the United States referred to as Mericans and U.S.'ers and even, once, "Romans" by people on non- U.S. extractions.
And the Brits call the Argentine "Argies." Of course, that's cause they hate them.
-------------------- "The best defense is not a good offense. The best defense is a terrifyingly accurate and devastatingly powerful offense, with multiply-overlapping kill zones and time-on-target artillery strikes." -- Laurence, Archangel of the Sword
Registered: Mar 1999
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Your whole arguement revolves around that our President was unaware of what is proper to refer to the residents of Pakistan. But by working so closely with them for so many months, he knew damn well they were called 'Pakistanis', not 'Pakis' or 'Stanis.'
It'd be a different story if he'd said it during the presidential campaign, when he didn't even seem to realize the military had overthrown the government. It's completely different after he's been buddying up to them for going on four months.
posted
NO, what I'm saying is that he was talking off the cuff, and that it's stupid to read so much into a half-second of speech, especially someone who's known for fudging their words on occasion.
If you expected to have a president with perfect diction, you should have elected ME.
-------------------- "The best defense is not a good offense. The best defense is a terrifyingly accurate and devastatingly powerful offense, with multiply-overlapping kill zones and time-on-target artillery strikes." -- Laurence, Archangel of the Sword
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