posted
No one has ever shot someone in Crawford county? No one transports themselves in cars in Crawford country? What do you do, ride your guns to work and take your cars to the shooting range ... ?
posted
We tried that, but the fumes were a killer.....
I'd imagine that sometimes since the inception of the county someone shot somebody, but not in 2001.
On the flipside no one has held up anyplace at car point, a few places have been held up and pistol and knife points, so they have been used in the commission of a felony, just not the big one of murder.....
Although some of the tourists seem like they are holding the county at car point, but, I guess that is neither here no there for this.
We could go to the point of the Simpsons, complete and total disarmament, then when the aliens invade we have to fight back with two by fours with nails in them.....
Attitudes are the problem, not the weapons. The number of murders I have read about, while living in Port Huron and Atlanta (MI), have been mainly commited with cars, ball bats, knives, machetes, and the likes, 6 murders in the past 3 years in the areas I've lived and 1 (one) was commited with a firearm. This leads me to believe that if people are going to kill then it doesn't matter what they have at hand, they will. Once the attitudes of people change, from the tough guy syndrom, the I want your stuff syndrom, and the hatered of people being different syndrom is cured people will die from the actions of others. So to impose a ban on hand weapons, to the point of not making them even, will lead to sawed off shotguns and rifles, which will lead to a ban on them, all the way doen to a ban on 2x4s and nails.
The problem is the "nothing can be done" attitude towards changing society back to one where people respect each other without me proving to the others that I am worthy of respect without me killing someone, and our 'One Nation under God' is the one that needs the most changing.
You want to help ease crime, move to an area that needs volunteers to give guidance to troubled youths, show them there is a better way to live and treat people. This won't work 100% of the time, just like the death penalty hasn't, because some people just can not be reached, or thier mind goes.
So don't blame Smith & Wesson, Colt, Beretta, or the others, blame us.
Okay, I think I can give the soap box back, and remember
No, new taxes and a gun in every home and car
[ January 09, 2002: Message edited by: Lost ]
-------------------- "You are a terrible human, Ritten." Magnus "Urgh, you are a sick sick person..." Austin Powers A leek too, pretty much a negi.....
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posted
Interestingly enough, the study I quoted a little bit from above goes on to find a VERY strong correlation between gun ownership/use by a certain segment of the population, and handgun crime.
That segment?
The police.
Countries with unarmed police, or police who rarely carry/use guns (Japan, The U.K.) tend to have low gun crime rates across the board.
When the police start carrying more guns, (as they have in the UK), the crooks start carrying more guns to 'even the field.'
-------------------- "The best defense is not a good offense. The best defense is a terrifyingly accurate and devastatingly powerful offense, with multiply-overlapping kill zones and time-on-target artillery strikes." -- Laurence, Archangel of the Sword
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Introducing the new NRA slogan for '02: "Guns don't kill people, people do, and only because the cops are, like, seriously tooled up, dude."
I mean, has it occurred to you that maybe gun use among unarmed police forces has increased due to the growth of gun crime, and not the other way round? Probably not, since that would imply that gun ownership is somehow bad; instead you choose to submit that the police, the ultimate authority figures in our society, are to blame. From there it's a logical step to believing that you need guns to protect yourselves from these authoritarians, and boom there you are, forming militias and wearing too much camouflage clothing.
posted
It's occurred to me, all right.. it just isn't what the statistics show.
I generally reject theories that don't fit the facts, unlike creationists and socialists.
The police in the UK recently started carrying more guns as a result of an incident where some unarmed cops were killed by a person armed with a handgun, this is true. But this was ONE incident.
However, the ban was supposed to take care of that problem.
If the theory of banning was correct and the theory of reciprocal carry was incorrect, the number of gun crimes should have dropped substantially.
That the number has not dropped, but in fact has risen by 30%, demonstrates that at LEAST one of the above conclusions is false.
Either the gun ban is ineffective, or the gun use has risen in response to the police carrying more often, or both.
Or perhaps there's a third factor... but you'd have to tell me what that is.
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Yep, and Thanks Took a bit of time off and moved to Michigan's "Great White North" for a change of pace
No I am going to get a few things, in my life, changed and come back with a nasty vengence....
How's everyone doing???
"..... guns are great guns are good, not every one has one but every one should....."
Okay, so it is slightly modified lyrics.... Let the guy sue me....
-------------------- "You are a terrible human, Ritten." Magnus "Urgh, you are a sick sick person..." Austin Powers A leek too, pretty much a negi.....
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-------------------- "This is why you people think I'm so unknowable. You don't listen!" - God, "God, the Devil and Bob"
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-------------------- Great is the guilt of an unnecessary war. ~ohn Adams
Once again the Bush Administration is worse than I had imagined, even though I thought I had already taken account of the fact that the Bush administration is invariably worse than I can imagine. ~Brad DeLong
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posted
In response to Fo2's question, neither of the above.
First of all, if the British police stop carrying guns so much, gun crime will decrease? Nonsense. Criminals don't carry guns because the police do, there aren't running gun battles between cops and robbers. Possible reasons for the rise in gun crime include the increased threat and fear-factor imposed by a gun now they're no longer a part of everyday life, or the growth of foreign-origin gangster culture in the UK such as the Jamaican Yardie gangs.
So what if the gun ban is ineffective? At least we're trying to do something about it. Again, by your logic, banning guns doesn't work, therefore guns shouldn't be banned. Now apply that rule to, say, drugs, or child pornography and paedophilia. All the laws and bannings aren't working there, should we give up on that too?
And then there's the actual increase in gun crime. The streets are still safe. Guns are still used in robberies and hold-ups just like they always were, whether or not those are on the increase I can't say. Most of the murders are drug-related so no great loss there. As you said, people will still murder each other whether they have guns or not. Hijackers can still get knives on to airplanes no matter how much the authorities try to stop them, so maybe the airline knife ban should be given up too?
quote:whether or not those are on the increase I can't say.
The article said. Didn't you read it?
When a ban leads to an INCREASE in crime (Like Prohibition in the US in the 1920's), then the ban is "ineffective" in the way that I was putting it.
In the case of the other bans you mention, that is not the case (well, maybe with drugs, but drugs are generally more dangerous than alcohol, and their widespread use would likely cause greater problems).
In the UK gun ban, however, that does seem to be the case. Ban handguns, and gun-related crime jumps 30%? That does not have the air of a resounding success.
-------------------- "The best defense is not a good offense. The best defense is a terrifyingly accurate and devastatingly powerful offense, with multiply-overlapping kill zones and time-on-target artillery strikes." -- Laurence, Archangel of the Sword
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posted
So what if the gun ban is ineffective? At least we're trying to do something about it.
Oh, my, well, let's give you a medal. You have good INTENTIONS! So what if the result is a massive increase in crime? You still meant well.
If what you try makes things worse, STOP IT and try something ELSE! Duh!
-------------------- "This is why you people think I'm so unknowable. You don't listen!" - God, "God, the Devil and Bob"
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
What, they're not allowed to learn from our example?
Two wrongs don't make a right.
Nice attempt at misdirection and changing the subject, though. Desperation tactic.
[ January 11, 2002: Message edited by: First of Two ]
-------------------- "The best defense is not a good offense. The best defense is a terrifyingly accurate and devastatingly powerful offense, with multiply-overlapping kill zones and time-on-target artillery strikes." -- Laurence, Archangel of the Sword
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