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Besides, unless gravity moves faster than light (wait.. does it? how the hell does that even work in the real universe!?), we have at least 16-ish years left before we can even see Vulcan missing in the sky.
quote:Originally posted by AndrewR: The Laurentian System that's it! Why would Spock want to race off and join the fleet there if it was just for exercises.
I'm guessing so that he could hail the nearest ship and say something along the lines of "Could you all come and give us a hand to deal with this massively powerful Romulan ship that just blew up Vulcan?" I don't think the Laurentian system is all that important, beyond it being a handy place for the fleet to be when Vulcan was attacked. As for why the bulk of the fleet was deployed away from strategically vital planets like Earth and Vulcan...well, it's good to see that some elements of the Prime timeline have been faithfully reproduced in the new movie!
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Another bad science moment was Spock being able to see Vulcan's destruction- that planet him and Scotty were on would have had to be as close as the moon is to Earth....and that planet shoud have experienced massive tidal forces that close (see SG1).
The Black Hole close to Sol is still VERY problematic- a massive navigational hazzard if nothing else.
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Ejecting and detonating the warp core probably sealed the hole, if these phenomena (obviously not traditional black holes, though described as such) don't all seal themselves, as the one that Spock and Nero came through apparently did.
-------------------- The flaws we find most objectionable in others are often those we recognize in ourselves.
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Yes, all this talk about the irregularity of the "black holes" in the movie; it was a Trek-style singularity, and as with other romulan singularities (such as in their Warbird cores), could it not be possible that its habit of staying stable and keeping a relatively small event horizon body, as long as it gets fed with fuel, makes it as different from a regular Hawking Black Hole as a Star Wars laser is from a real-life laser?
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quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: Another bad science moment was Spock being able to see Vulcan's destruction- that planet him and Scotty were on would have had to be as close as the moon is to Earth....and that planet shoud have experienced massive tidal forces that close (see SG1).
Exactly what I stated earlier. Unless Delta Vega a moon, there's no way Spock could have seen Vulcan's destruction, unless Nero left some sort of giant projector in orbit.
Registered: Feb 2005
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Too many changes for the sake of change. There was nothing wrong with Matt Jeffries' original design for the Enterprise, or with the hand cannons (pre-phasers) or other kit. I didn't like the Starfleet delta shield tesselation on the uniform shirts. I missed the non-delta insigniæ, regardless of whether they're for individual ships ( which I reject) or for each fleet within Starfleet (which I like).
Spock struggling with his emotions was a central arc of his character. Now, by having Spock-Prime tell him to embrace them, that is removed.
They had to jettison the established canon and "EU" canon (books, etc.) in order to 1) tell the "gathering of heroes" story they wanted to tell, and 2) have the audience not be able to predict what's going to happen next or who's going to live or die.
Here is my reconstruction of the original timeline, dates adjusted to fit actual observed phenomena within TOS, the movies, and the novels -- dates adjusted where necessary to fit more primary sources (I ignore the Okudas' arbitrary dating and lack of deep research). You'll see the problems the new filmmakers faced:
2235 (not '33) -- James T. Kirk born.
2245 -- Enterprise launched, under Captain Robert April.
Early 2250s -- April turns Enterprise over to Christopher Pike, is promoted to Commodore and begins serving as a roving ambassador. Kirk enters Starfleet Academy. Axanar Peace Mission somewhere in here. Kirk participated as "a new-fledged cadet", received Palm Leaf of Axanar. This presumably ends the EU's Four Years War with the Klingons.
2256 (presume) -- Kirk completes core curriculum as Ensign, serves on Republic. Spock begins serving under Pike, presumably on Enterprise.
2257 (presume) -- Kirk returns for advanced studies as student instructor, promoted to Lt., j.g. Gary Mitchell in his class. Kirk is described as "positively grim", "a stack of books with legs", and that one has to "think or sink" in his class. Mitchell reports Kirk needing to be set up on dates, he was so attached to his studies. One of these was presumably Ruth ("Shore Leave"). Another, Carol Marcus. Kirk's three sittings of the Kobayashi Maru test somewhere in here. He reprograms the simulator himself. Gets commendation, not academic suspension.
2258 (presume) -- Kirk graduates as Lieutenant. Serves aboard Farragut under Garrovik ("from the day [he] left the Academy"). George Kirk, Sr., alive to see his son graduate.
Early 2260s -- somewhere in here, probably, Kirk attains command of a Destroyer; also participates in Vulcanian Expedition (meant to nudge the Vulcans out of their isolationism). Also around here, George Kirk, Sr., is on a ship that disappears on deep-space mission.
2264/2265 (presumably) -- McCoy, Sulu, and Uhura enter Academy in here somewhere. As with Troi, McCoy evidently goes through a specialized training program for civilians with advanced degrees and enters active duty as a Lt. Cmdr.
2267 (or so) -- Pike promoted to Fleet Captain; Kirk gets command of the Enterprise, meeting Pike for the first time and inheriting Spock as his Science Officer. If this is anything like Star Trek: The Motion Picture, Kirk then oversees the refit of the Enterprise, amongst other things, boosting crew complement from 203 to 430. Gary Mitchell is Kirk's First Officer. This is also presumably when Scotty joins the Enterprise. Dr. Elizabeth Dehner aboard as ship's psychologist. Dr. Piper aboard as CMO. Lee Kelso is the first Alpha-watch helmsman.
2268 -- "Where No Man Has Gone Before". Gary Mitchell, Dr. Dehner, and Lee Kelso die. Dr. Piper retires, is replaced by McCoy. Sulu transfers from Sciences division to Command, becomes Alpha-watch helmsman. Uhura assigned to Enterprise (or promoted from another watch/department) as Lieutenant. Department heads switch from Command gold to their division colours. "Charlie X" Thanksgiving of this year.
2269 -- Remainder of TOS first season, beginning of second. Chekov posted to Enterprise as Ensign.
In here are the rest of TOS and the animated series.
2272 -- End of Kirk's five-year mission, promoted to Rear Admiral, l.h. (damn Gene for forgetting the rank of Commodore). Enterprise goes in for refit.
2274 -- V'Ger Incident/Star Trek: The Motion Picture. This is my other bookend of this range of events.
There's a lot of other conjectural stuff in there that I haven't bothered with. That's mainly Kirk's arc, and where others were in relation to him at significant times. The very structure of Starfleet is an organic and evolving institution. There really isn't room there for a "gathering of the heroes" story.
There are, however, plenty of other engaging stories to be told in there, if the writers weren't so damn lazy and uncaring of their core audience -- the ones who would come back for repeat viewings if the filmmakers honoured the universe they were playing in. The frustrating thing is, someone involved in the script knew and cared. One instance: Incorporating McCoy's backstory like that worked really, really well. It stood out to me because of that -- a shining gem amidst the poor treatment of the other characters.
I'll leave off here for now...
--Jonah
-------------------- "That's what I like about these high school girls, I keep getting older, they stay the same age."
--David "Woody" Wooderson, Dazed and Confused
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I don't think the Laurentian system is all that important, beyond it being a handy place for the fleet to be when Vulcan was attacked. As for why the bulk of the fleet was deployed away from strategically vital planets like Earth and Vulcan...well, it's good to see that some elements of the Prime timeline have been faithfully reproduced in the new movie!
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