Flare Sci-fi Forums
Flare Sci-Fi Forums Post New Topic  Post A Reply
my profile | directory login | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Flare Sci-Fi Forums » Star Trek » General Trek » What's the difference between known & explored space?

   
Author Topic: What's the difference between known & explored space?
Shik
There's a million things I haven't done, but just you wait
Member # 343

 - posted      Profile for Shik     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
No, seriously.

In the midst of revamping my writing with acceptable, semi-logical interstellar distances & volumetrics (which...don't even get me started...), I snagged myself on a semantic sandbar. The terms "known space" & "explored space" seem to be used interchangeably, but I don't feel they really are. In terms of exploration directives & knowledge ranges, they're different things, but I'm having difficulty setting down concrete definitions.

Currently, I'm leaning toward known space entailing all that's publicly accessible through knowledge; it may have been charted by subspace telescope or visited by probes, but the general layout is known. Explored space would be more detailed; actually visited by ships & crews, surveyed, plotted, mapped, all the bits sussed out. That seems a good layout...but.

Anyone care to opine?

--------------------
"I never agreed with Jefferson once—we have fought on like seventy-five different fronts. But when all is said & all is done...Jefferson HAS beliefs; Burr has none."

Registered: Jun 2000  |  IP: Logged
137th Gebirg
Member
Member # 2692

 - posted      Profile for 137th Gebirg     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
^^^ That's how I look at those two terms, too, yes.
Registered: Sep 2013  |  IP: Logged
Lee
I'm a spy now. Spies are cool.
Member # 393

 - posted      Profile for Lee     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I zuppose you could take some known examples of stars visited by one of the series' ships, and use that to calculate a radius, then work out how many stars there are in that spherical volume.

--------------------
Never mind the Phlox - Here's the Phase Pistols

Registered: Jul 2000  |  IP: Logged
Shik
There's a million things I haven't done, but just you wait
Member # 343

 - posted      Profile for Shik     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Actual Deneb in "Farpoint" is 2800 ly away. Mintaka is 1200. Actual Rigel is 900.

--------------------
"I never agreed with Jefferson once—we have fought on like seventy-five different fronts. But when all is said & all is done...Jefferson HAS beliefs; Burr has none."

Registered: Jun 2000  |  IP: Logged
Guardian 2000
Senior Member
Member # 743

 - posted      Profile for Guardian 2000     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Baby, I got this, from the 8000 light-years back through Kozinski vs. Wesley:

https://st-v-sw.net/STSWcompare.html#Size

--------------------
G2k's ST v. SW Tech Assessment

Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Shik
There's a million things I haven't done, but just you wait
Member # 343

 - posted      Profile for Shik     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
On a related note, any math geeks here? I need to formulate the volume of a bulged disk (like a galaxy or a discus) & I'm unsure if it's considered an oblate spheroid or if there's an actual disk formula. Also, if the latter, is there an online calculator for it?

--------------------
"I never agreed with Jefferson once—we have fought on like seventy-five different fronts. But when all is said & all is done...Jefferson HAS beliefs; Burr has none."

Registered: Jun 2000  |  IP: Logged
Guardian 2000
Senior Member
Member # 743

 - posted      Profile for Guardian 2000     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
For the Federation volume I've just used a short elliptic cylinder elsewhere, since the thickness is somewhat quasi-uniform-ish out this far. So, if the Federation is 8kly by 6kly and 1kly thick, it goes like this:

Volume = πABH/4
Volume = π(8000ly)(6000ly)(1000ly)/4
Volume = π(48,000,000,000ly³)/4
Volume = π(12,000,000,000ly³)
Volume = 37,669,080,000ly³

37.67 billion cubic light-years, in other words.

Going full oblate spheroid would be superior for the galaxy as a whole, but even that would be an estimate.

--------------------
G2k's ST v. SW Tech Assessment

Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Shik
There's a million things I haven't done, but just you wait
Member # 343

 - posted      Profile for Shik     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Yeah, but, uh.....I need to do these calcs at various sizes, & I don't follow your shapings.

At any rate, I wanted to avoid cylindering, but I guess I've no choice. Back to applying "Hamilton" lyrics as subchapter headings.

--------------------
"I never agreed with Jefferson once—we have fought on like seventy-five different fronts. But when all is said & all is done...Jefferson HAS beliefs; Burr has none."

Registered: Jun 2000  |  IP: Logged
Guardian 2000
Senior Member
Member # 743

 - posted      Profile for Guardian 2000     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
No worries, just giving an example. The oblate spheroid formula uses the radius, not the diameter, and in the below the radius A is for the length and width, with C as the height:

Volume = (4/3)πA²C

Now, we could also estimate an irregular oblate spheroid, a.k.a. an ellipsoid, like the E-D saucer section, simply by having an ABC form with A being half the length (Ten Forward back to the arboretum), B as half the width (port to starboard), and C as half the height (bridge to yacht).

But, as I am not at a spot right this second to pull those numbers, I'll use my 8*6*1 again:

Volume = (4/3)πABC
Volume = (4/3)π(4000)(3000)(500)
Volume = (4/3)π(6000000000)
Volume = 8000000000π
Volume = 25,132,741,228 ly³

So, whereas a box that's 8000*6000*1000 would have a volume of 48,000,000,000 cubic light-years, a disk only has 37,670,000,000 (having removed the corners), and an ellipsoid only has 25,100,000,000 thanks to shaving off the top and bottom of the edges all the way around.

There is a calculator for spheroids and ellipsoids here: https://planetcalc.com/149/ . . . just remember to use radius, not diameter, for that.

Alternately, what numbers are you wanting to use?

--------------------
G2k's ST v. SW Tech Assessment

Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
TSN
I'm... from Earth.
Member # 31

 - posted      Profile for TSN     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Have you tried just typing it into Wolfram Alpha?
Registered: Mar 1999  |  IP: Logged
Shik
There's a million things I haven't done, but just you wait
Member # 343

 - posted      Profile for Shik     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Yeah, I've been using Planetcalc for my spheroids, but couldn't find dick for disks.

My numbers vary on point it time. I'm still working out revising what I've written so far for more logic & such. There's also the matter of vertical vs. horizontal expansion, how much space is solid vs. pseudopods & tendrils (or even webbing), & what stated values to adhere to & what to cast aside (for example, Bajor being 52.3 ly from Sol, yet still being "the frontier).

[ April 08, 2017, 09:16 PM: Message edited by: Shik ]

--------------------
"I never agreed with Jefferson once—we have fought on like seventy-five different fronts. But when all is said & all is done...Jefferson HAS beliefs; Burr has none."

Registered: Jun 2000  |  IP: Logged
Guardian 2000
Senior Member
Member # 743

 - posted      Profile for Guardian 2000     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
52.3 light-years from Bajor to Sol / Earth? I don't have the DS9:TM anymore, but my understanding was that it didn't say that, either numerically or in text:

quote:
p.3, Section 1.1, Local Stellar Neighborhood
"The Bajoran and Cardassian star systems, some 50 light-years from the core Federation worlds..."

quote:
p.17, Section 1.5, Support Flight Procedures
"Specialized high-warpcourier vehicles can be employed for critical missions and are able to cover the 50.3-light-year distance between the station and the UFP inner perimeter within six days."

Inner perimeter and core can mean quite a lot given a Federation spread across 8000 light-years, especially when worlds like Trebus in the DMZ were thousands of light-years from Earth.

--------------------
G2k's ST v. SW Tech Assessment

Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Shik
There's a million things I haven't done, but just you wait
Member # 343

 - posted      Profile for Shik     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The implication was intended that they meant Earth, but either way, I wasn't going to abide by that distance anyway.

I might just invest in one of those 3D printing pens one day to build a more accurate map when I'm done with all this.

--------------------
"I never agreed with Jefferson once—we have fought on like seventy-five different fronts. But when all is said & all is done...Jefferson HAS beliefs; Burr has none."

Registered: Jun 2000  |  IP: Logged
Guardian 2000
Senior Member
Member # 743

 - posted      Profile for Guardian 2000     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Maybe this will get you started . . .

http://bathsheba.com/crystal/starmap/

--------------------
G2k's ST v. SW Tech Assessment

Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Shik
There's a million things I haven't done, but just you wait
Member # 343

 - posted      Profile for Shik     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
That's kinda neat.

--------------------
"I never agreed with Jefferson once—we have fought on like seventy-five different fronts. But when all is said & all is done...Jefferson HAS beliefs; Burr has none."

Registered: Jun 2000  |  IP: Logged
   

Quick Reply
Message:

HTML is enabled.
UBB Code™ is enabled.

Instant Graemlins
   


Post New Topic  Post A Reply Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


© 1999-2008 Solareclipse Network.

Powered by UBB.classic™ 6.7.3