Flare Sci-fi Forums
Flare Sci-Fi Forums Post New Topic  Post A Reply
my profile | directory login | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Flare Sci-Fi Forums » Star Trek » General Trek » Let's talk about Engineering (Page 1)

  This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2   
Author Topic: Let's talk about Engineering
Siegfried
Fullmetal Pompatus
Member # 29

 - posted      Profile for Siegfried     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
You know, we’ve spent a good deal of time on this board talking starship bridge design and actually designing our own bridges, but we’ve never talked about what is probably the second most important set in a Trek series: the engine room set. I’d just like to give my opinions on the main engine room sets we’ve seen and read what y’all think on the subject.

In my opinion, the least realistic of the engine room sets we’ve seen was Main Engineering on the Enterprise-D in The Next Generation. I know that this set was hastily constructed at the last moment, but I think a bit more could have been done to make this a believable set. For one matter, the set itself was always undergoing major modifications. For much of the first season, there was a corridor running smack through the center of the set. This corridor was later patched up by doors and then wall panels with small control screens and isolinear processors. Oddly enough, the corridor reappeared in Generations. Also, the doors in engineering shifted from leading to turbolifts to being entryways to the Jefferies tube network. Aside from that, I’ve always felt that having such a big and powerful ship controlled from a tiny engine room stretched believability. I mean, there were only really four sit-down control stations in all of that set. Then you had the Master System table and the Master Situation display, and another four screens. Then there’s also the three mini-stations tucked into the back of LaForge’s office. It just always struck me as a small cramped space that was incapable of holding all the engineers that would be necessary to run the engineering systems. I mean, the bridge was freakin’ huge and Main Engineering was freakin’ small.

The engine room set from The Original Series was higher up on the believability scale for me. You had the guts of the engine components on the floor of the main level and behind the grill fa�ade on the back wall. You had highly technical looking control stations and monitors as well as a couple banks of computer equipment. Compared to the Enterprise-D’s set, the original Enterprise had a nice industrial feel to it. While the Enterprise-D had a nice cozy feel, the original Enterprise gave the impression of an entirely Spartan work environment. What doesn’t do it for me with this set is that there is so much dead space. The main area of the engine room is two decks high, yet the only things reaching up that high are the machines behind the back grill panel. There’s a balcony that leads to a back control room and an upper level office that Scotty frequently went to, but it was just a bunch of wasted space. Not particularly efficient, in my opinion. Another problem is that there is a lack of control stations for the engineers to sit at. There’s one that Scotty sat at in “The Naked Time” and a wall mounted unit that resembles TNG’s Master Situation display, but there really isn’t much else. I would expect several more stations than that. Coincidently, this can also sum up my opinions on the Enterprise-E’s engine room. What it has going for it are the massive reactor and conduits lining the back wall of the set. It has an industrial feel to it, and there seem to be more stations available. However, it seems like there is a big waste of space again.

The engineering set for Voyager I liked. It seemed like it could be what I expect for an efficient design and believable look. There were plenty of control stations in the lobby and in the two alcoves flanking the warp core. It seemed like there a good presence of machinery here with the warp core and the control processors behind it. There is a warm and metallic feel to this set. The colors generated by the warp core provided a nice compliment to the shades of gray in the rest of the set. The use of space here seemed much better than previous lead ships. It was a two-deck design, but the second deck was used in a nice manner. You had the massive control station on the second deck with about four to six small personal stations along the side and back walls. However, I would have made this second level a little more busy with larger stations and possibly some control processors back there. But, overall, I think that Voyager’s engine room set is the most believable of the 24th century starships. The Defiant is a close second, though. The Defiant used the space efficiently. The small cramped feel of her engine room matched perfectly with the size of the ship. Unfortunately, I just couldn’t really get into the look of the warp core. I don’t know, but it just didn’t appeal to me very much.

Finally, here’s what I think about Enterprise’s engine room set. This set is a very believable and fairly efficient design, and I have to say that it’s probably my favorite now. You have a massive yet compact warp reactor that is all contained in a two-deck area. The engineers can check the entire core thoroughly by just walking around it and climbing the two ladders. Appealing to my fondness of the warp reactor are the control stations that are built into it. I just find this incredibly interesting as well as the engineers’ ability to actually climb on it to check it over. It looks so solid and sturdy compared to the cores of the Enterprise-D and Voyager (which look elegant and incredibly fragile). The set has a nice “down and dirty” feel to it, too. It’s a fairly cramped space that looks reasonable compared to the size of Enterprise herself. Also, the use of the crawlways and metal stairs just reminds so much of the engine rooms of today’s naval warships. It has such a realistic feel to me. For as much as I like the set design, there’s some stuff that I don’t like. First, the balcony level of the set is a bit wasteful. There’s practically nothing up there other than a sensor station (in “Broken Bow” ;) and an equipment cart. I know that walkway isn’t too wide, so I don’t think that any control stations could fit up there. But still, I’d bet that equipment cabinets or the like could be squeezed in. The second thing I don’t like is the arrangement of the stairs. From “Broken Bow,” we saw Tucker climb down the flight of stairs from the balcony level and then climb up another set to get to the main controls for the reactor. Surely, there could been a connector used here somewhere to connect the two balconies?

Anyway, that’s what I think. What do the rest of y’all think? Am I way off base or am I actually making some sense here? Let’s hear it!

{Edit: Attack of the damn smilies from hell...}

[ October 24, 2001: Message edited by: Siegfried ]



--------------------
The philosopher's stone. Those who possess it are no longer bound by the laws of equivalent exchange in alchemy. They gain without sacrifice and create without equal exchange. We searched for it, and we found it.

Registered: Mar 1999  |  IP: Logged
The_Tom
recently silent
Member # 38

 - posted      Profile for The_Tom     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I'm afraid I'm not up for providing an exhaustive thesis on my opinions on each Engineering set at the moment. I will add that the Voyager set wins the most criminally-underused-by-directors award in a landslide, though. It was the only really "cool" set on the whole show (*attacks Richard James with a plastic fork*) and its funkiest aspects (two usable levels, glass floors, an incredibly cool-looking Warp core) were all-but-never used creatively when composing shots.

[ October 24, 2001: Message edited by: The_Tom ]



--------------------
"I was surprised by the matter-of-factness of Kafka's narration, and the subtle humor present as a result." (Sizer 2005)

Registered: Mar 1999  |  IP: Logged
Siegfried
Fullmetal Pompatus
Member # 29

 - posted      Profile for Siegfried     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Well, what can I say? South Park was a rerun tonight (and not one of the more interesting episodes, either).

Anyway, I agree with you that Voyager's engineering set was underused. There were so many cool elements in there. We could have seen so many wonderful angles of the set; instead, we just get the standard shots that we always get. I would have liked to have seen some shots from the upper level down to the main level (TNG did a couple shots like this) and some shots from behind the core or looking up the core. It's a shame, really.

--------------------
The philosopher's stone. Those who possess it are no longer bound by the laws of equivalent exchange in alchemy. They gain without sacrifice and create without equal exchange. We searched for it, and we found it.


Registered: Mar 1999  |  IP: Logged
The_Tom
recently silent
Member # 38

 - posted      Profile for The_Tom     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The worst part was the concentration on the boring empty space on the lower floor. (Where the pool table stood during TNG.) Yaaaaawn. Everything happened there. So much coolness all around, and in the middle, an oasis of boredom. Even the door in the back was boring.

--------------------
"I was surprised by the matter-of-factness of Kafka's narration, and the subtle humor present as a result." (Sizer 2005)

Registered: Mar 1999  |  IP: Logged
Grokca
Senior Member
Member # 722

 - posted      Profile for Grokca     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Very good analysis of the engine rooms Siegfried.
I would just like to mention, about the stairways on NX-01. I don't how relavent this is but I used to work in a steel mill, electrical maint. We had motor rooms , sorta providing the same function, and the thing about up one stairwell and down another, happened all the time. Sorta made it believable to me.
Paul

--------------------
"and none of your usual boobery."
M. Burns

Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Lee
I'm a spy now. Spies are cool.
Member # 393

 - posted      Profile for Lee     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
You missed out the Defiant engine room. . .

--------------------
Never mind the Phlox - Here's the Phase Pistols

Registered: Jul 2000  |  IP: Logged
Malnurtured Snay
Blogger
Member # 411

 - posted      Profile for Malnurtured Snay     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
No, he didn't. He just didn't go into a great amount of detail on it.

--------------------
www.malnurturedsnay.net

Registered: Sep 2000  |  IP: Logged
Aban Rune
Former ascended being
Member # 226

 - posted      Profile for Aban Rune     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I don't understand what Siegfried meant by

"For much of the first season, there was a corridor running smack through the center of the set. This corridor was later patched up by doors and then wall panels with small control screens and isolinear processors. Oddly enough, the corridor reappeared in Generations."

Could yo explain that a little. I'm not much of a buff on the behind the scenes stuff. Did they use part of a corridor set for the engineering set or something?

I liked the Defiant's Engine room quite a bit. I liked the plasma transfer conduits being on the floor. I liked the compact feel of the room and the upper level scaffolding. I thought it fit the look of the ship very well.

--------------------
"Nu ani anqueatas"

Aban's Illustration
The Official Website of Shannon McRandle


Registered: Oct 1999  |  IP: Logged
capped
I WAS IN THE FUTURE, IT WAS TOO LATE TO RSVP
Member # 709

 - posted      Profile for capped     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
In 'Encounter at Farpoint', the 1701-D engineering room was built at the last minute, and its truly amazing the warp core looked so nice..
Gene and the staff were informed that if they didnt build the engine room on the pilot budget, then they probably wouldnt have one until the second season.. so they added a scene to the draft of 'Farpoint' that had Picard forbidding transmitted communications and sending Errand Boy Junior Grade Worf to Engineering to inform them they were going to try for warp 9.6... this scene always struck me as superfluous, but at least i know why.

The E-D engineering set was built with (i believe) railings and the central core area adapted in some way from the ST:TMP engine room, either that or they were built new, but the one man elevator looks familiar. The warp cor was new.
But right next to that area they added several of the corridor set pieces (the walls around the 'pool table') they had a couple doors in them.. that was a radial corridor, leading straight to and away from the core. It was crossed by two curved corridors that were originally supposed to connect the straight corridors on the 1701 set from TMP.

So if you walk straight away from the warp core you had
1)A station to the left and Geordi's 'office' to the right, then
2)A corridor bisecting the area you were in, left and right
3) the pool table with a door on either side
4) The end of the corridor area (where the cutaway MSD was, and another intersection of a curved corridor left and right

After the first handful of episodes (i believe) the corridor described in 2) was closed off, with some wall panels that had readouts and red alert lights. The corridor was still there in 'Naked Now', when engineering definitely didnt need more traffic. You can tell the wall panels because the walls around them are the hexagonally bent corridor walls built for TMP, and the panels themselves are flat.

Perhaps it was intended that the panels could move and allow access to the area behind (which had become a Jeffries tube, not a corridor, later in the show when they finally opened the door left (walking away from the WC) of the pool table. If they showed a standrard Jeffries intersection they screwed up, because the right tunnel would go right through the left entry corridor outside the door.

--------------------
"Are you worried that your thoughts are not quite.. clear?"


Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mark Nguyen
I'm a daddy now!
Member # 469

 - posted      Profile for Mark Nguyen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Re: Voyager's Engineering set... I like it too, but disagree that is was terribly underused. The two-flooredness was used in a bunch of episodes (e.g. when Neelix threw that Seska-phile down into the plasma; when Suspiria took over Engineering and hung Tuvok & Torres from the ceiling; when they brought the Borg vinculum aboard...). We also frequently saw the use of that big second floor console and its surroundings whenever they needed an Engineering set "revmoved" from the hustle & bustle downstairs (e.g. When the Equinox XO was swiping files; when Neelix threw that Seska-phile down into the plasma; and often when Paris and Torres needed to do something dramatic or romantic).

The best use of the Engineering set for me had to be in "Pathfinder". It was perfect that Barclay preferred to use the upper stations as they were removed from the main action, which reflects strongly on his personality. There's also this fantastic shot the director composed which showed the upper floor from below, with Barclay and Harkins on opposite sides above.

Also, note that the Voyager Engineering set was not completely scratchbuilt... The upper stations along the back were originally constructed for the E-D as the Nacelle Tube set - note the downward-facing monitors along the side. The walls and suppot beams were repainted and then incorporated into Voyager. It's good that they still found ue, though. I also believe that parts of the walls from the E-D set upper floor were incorporated intot he Voyager upper floor.

Finally, I don't mind the big open space on the main floor down there - it allows for a lot of action and more movement than the E-D set, which was dominated by the pool table everyone had to walk around. This open space was often compenated for by that free-standing console often seen in Sickbay and the Cargo Bay sets, for composition purposes. It also let more "science" stuff happen on the set, as you could bring in larger props to analyze for stuff.

Mark

Mark

--------------------
"This is my timey-wimey detector. Goes ding when there's stuff." - Doctor Who
The 404s - Improv Comedy | Mark's Starship Bridge Designs | Anime Alberta


Registered: Dec 2000  |  IP: Logged
Raw Cadet
Member
Member # 725

 - posted      Profile for Raw Cadet     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Excellent essay on engine rooms. Along the lines with what Mark said, I always thought the "Voyager" engine room was a very heavily modified version of the "Enterprise's" engine room, using the same basic layout and frame, or whatever holds up and defines the sets. If so, given the time and money, the "Enterprise" D's engine room could have looked a lot more like the "Voyager" engine room, and, hence, much more fitting for a Galaxy Class starship.
Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mikey T
Driven
Member # 144

 - posted      Profile for Mikey T     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Maybe we should start posting pics of the sets especially the TNG seasons sets to compare. I still have no clue to the closed corridors in engineering. Where were they?

--------------------
"It speaks to some basic human needs: that there is a tomorrow, it's not all going to be over with a big splash and a bomb, that the human race is improving, that we have things to be proud of as humans."
-Gene Roddenberry about Star Trek

Registered: May 1999  |  IP: Logged
Raw Cadet
Member
Member # 725

 - posted      Profile for Raw Cadet     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Regarding the "secret corridor:" if you are facing forward, towards the Master Situation Display, and look to your right (the Starboard side of "Enterprise") there is a beige panel forward of the Chief Engineer's Office that looks like it is covering something. Indeed, it is covering a corridor that was there in the early episodes, and that reappeared in "Generations." The panel in question has for rounded rectangles vertically stacked that light up during Red Alert.
That is the best I can do; I cannot provide a link.

Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mark Nguyen
I'm a daddy now!
Member # 469

 - posted      Profile for Mark Nguyen     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The corridor and Engineering sets on the E-D are one in the same... Throughout the first season, we often saw people walking through the "H-block" (sic) with its sealed-off wall where they hide the rest of the Engineering set on one side, and cleverly disguise the other end with potted plants while leaving the MSD there. In later seasons, while they remove the MSD they left the isolation door in place when you see the corridor. They also tended to add chairs and stuff on the other side. See "Birthright Pt. II" in the sixth season for an example.

Mark

--------------------
"This is my timey-wimey detector. Goes ding when there's stuff." - Doctor Who
The 404s - Improv Comedy | Mark's Starship Bridge Designs | Anime Alberta


Registered: Dec 2000  |  IP: Logged
Raw Cadet
Member
Member # 725

 - posted      Profile for Raw Cadet     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
In the "simple versus complicated" engineering debate, I think I "side" with the "simple." I believe some modern naval vessels and tankers can operate without a manned engine room, and even a "full complement" of engineers is a relatively small number. Granted, a warp-engine is probably much more complicated than a diesel-electric or gas-turbine engine, but, our ("The Next Generation" era) heroes have over 300 years of warp engine experience and knowledge to draw from, and imagine what 24th Century computers can do. Thus, it seems to me an engine room could effectively have just a few panels for crew members to doze at. That said, I guess the "Enterprise" "E" is my favorite engineering; it conveys a feeling of power with that warp core, but it has the simplicity of an advanced, highly automated control center.
Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
  This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2   

Quick Reply
Message:

HTML is enabled.
UBB Code™ is enabled.

Instant Graemlins
   


Post New Topic  Post A Reply Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


© 1999-2024 Charles Capps

Powered by UBB.classic™ 6.7.3