"T'Pol's statement doesn't seem to be saying that this is her first time."
Not her statement, no. But I seem to recall that she shook her head "no" before making that statement. I could be wrong about that, but, when I watched it, something definitely suggested to me that she was telling Phlox it had never happened before.
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The only problem I have with female pon farr, really, is the idea that it would be rigidly cyclic like the male one. That significantly lowers the odds of finding a mate. Then again, perhaps Vulcan telepathy developed specifically to increase those odds again...
It seems that pon farr is not the result of the Vulcan denial of emotion, not by these quotes. It's a species-specific urge that's just made all the more inconvenient by the philosophy of logic. (And, incidentally, should then be present on Romulans and Mintakans as well.)
And much like VOY "Body and Soul" says, it seems pon farr only becomes an issue in the later years, and grows in severity with age. There probably is no fixed onset age - Vulcans might get the first bout at age 7, the next at age 14, and so on, but they'll only *feel* it after reaching 35-70 or so.
The cycle may not be exactly seven years, since we desperately need the dramatic leeway of a Vulcan, aged something-not-divisible-by-seven, to be able to undergo pon farr. Or then the cycle is exactly seven years, but does not necessarily begin at year zero. Or year seven.
And yes, I'm sure Vulcans come in an extremely purist style, not EVER having sex outside pon farr, or eating anything beyond digestively sufficient protein goo, and in several more hedonist styles. Some may enjoy sex for several years before the onset of their first real pon farr. Others may indulge in it only after finding a mate. And if "Body and Soul" is any indication, the old geezers are the horniest of all, which explains why they rob Earthling cradles when Vulcan women run out. And why Soval is in this constant PMS.
Incidentally, there's this discrepancy between "Amok Time", "Body and Soul" and "Bounty" regarding alternate relief methods. Spock says he has to find a Vulcan mate on Vulcan. Tuvok implies pretty much anybody would do, but he's married and won't accept others, including Vulcan females aboard the ship. And T'Pol says alien partners are okay. Are we to dismiss Spock's (and later Vorik's) claim of the need for Vulcans on Vulcan as naive and uninformed? Or should we assume that the *first* pon farr truly has to take place on Vulcan with Vulcans? Or was Spock neglecting to say that his bonding arrangement forced his return, while other, unbound Vulcans would not have these limitations?
In any case, Vorik messes it up the worst. Does he really mean that Vulcans have to dump their old partner every second years and find a new one?
Shik
Starship database: completed; History of Starfleet: done; website: probably never
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quote:Originally posted by Timo: The cycle may not be exactly seven years, since we desperately need the dramatic leeway of a Vulcan, aged something-not-divisible-by-seven, to be able to undergo pon farr. Or then the cycle is exactly seven years, but does not necessarily begin at year zero. Or year seven.
There's also the fact that it's almost certainly seven VULCAN years...which could add up to, like, every 4.7 Earth years or something.
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Spock says he has to find a Vulcan mate on Vulcan.
My guess is that that that's because his telepathically bonded mate was on Vulcan, as the vast majority of Vulcan females would have been. HE had to go there.
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But Sela kinda does....oh, wait.....that's just wooden acting. Never mind.
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...I realise what you are getting at... ...but I just thought I would add that she was half-n-half and kinda spiteful of humans. Actually, she would have made a much more ideal enemy for Nemesis than Shinzon...at least she had a reason to be pissed off at Picard/Earth...
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Hell NO! SUcky acting in a TV role does NOT entitle you to a job doing the same on the big screen (Shatner was the exception, not the rule).
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
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No, no no no no....I'm saying Sela as a character would have made a more sensible nemesis than Shinzon....I'm not saying Denise as Sela was necessarily born for the role...just the character she was playing...
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I guess so, but they blew their chance to make Sela more than an Romulan cardboard cut-out in Unification. Hell, a little agnst on her part would have gone a looooog way.
Shinzon would have been best used as someone that hates both the Federation and the Romulans equally. One single line to the Reman viceroy about them wiping out Romulus after the Earth would have been perfect. It would have explained him using only the Scimitar instead of the entire fleet too. That or have him slowly go insane as he degenerated. Eh...(shrug)...it's not Tom Hardy's fault: I thought he really did a great job. Certainly better than Montablan's over-dramatic "Kahn" performance at any rate. ....but that was the 80's and every villian was something out of a James Bond script.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
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Oh I agree...its just the fact that Khan was an nemesis we knew and who was appropriate for the role in the movie, he had a back history from the 1990s in "Space Seed" and an explainable chain of events that lead to his mistakened discovery and, again, from "Space Seed" it had already been previously why Khan hated Kirk.
Then we get Nemesis...and a villian, who frankly, came out of the blue. It would be understandable if there was a single episode during TNG that might shed some possibilities on how Shinzon came to be or simply that Shinzon existed, but he didnt. He existed solely for the purpose of the Nemesis, and despite Toms excellent acting, his character was just 'out of the loop' as far as making him a 'true' villian like ole Khan was. That is why Sela or someone whom we would know would hate the Federation/Picard, and why, would have made this movie the TWOK-calibur.
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quote:Originally posted by Futurama Guy: Oh I agree...its just the fact that Khan was an nemesis we knew and who was appropriate for the role in the movie, he had a back history from the 1990s in "Space Seed" and an explainable chain of events that lead to his mistakened discovery and, again, from "Space Seed" it had already been previously why Khan hated Kirk. l
Y'know, I wonder how many people here saw "Space Seed" before TWOK. I know I didn't, and I still enjoyed the movie,
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
Registered: Mar 1999
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quote: It seems that pon farr is not the result of the Vulcan denial of emotion, not by these quotes. It's a species-specific urge that's just made all the more inconvenient by the philosophy of logic. (And, incidentally, should then be present on Romulans and Mintakans as well.)
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