posted
Are the Military Assault Command Operations team the first canon evidence that Starfleet has an organization like the Marine Corps? I know that the idea of a Starfleet Marine Corps has been rejected by many on the grounds that Starfleet would not maintain a distinctly militaristic organization of dedicated soldiers, expecially those who would be intended as ground troops. Does the existence of the MACOs preclude the existence of a Starfleet Marine Corps or support it? I would speculate that with a different rank and ratings structure, the Military Assault Command Operations team is a separate service from Starfleet.
quote:I would speculate that with a different rank and ratings structure, the Military Assault Command Operations team is a separate service from Starfleet.
Why? The USMC has a different rank/rating structure but is a part of the USN.
posted
It's separate, yes. In fact, I'd suggest that TPTB wouldn't have put commandoes onboard unless they were going to be separate service, as it appears to be Enterprise's turn to try out the trademark post-1993 Trek structure of "two groups onboard one starship/space station/windsurfer that don't like one another." Here's hoping it outlasts the Starfleet-Maquis thing, not to mention the fan-favourite multi-episode arc in which the Equinox crew attempted to fit in with the rest of Voyager's crew.
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Snay is it possible that there is a Department of Starfleet Military Assault Command that is the Federation equivalent of the marines? Or would the name Military Assualt Command not appear in the name of the service? Like Millitary Airlift Command is part of the US Air Force?
Can those who are professional warrior and armchair warrior help me out here with your comments? I know enough about the navy, marines, and air force that its likely I will put my foot in my mouth.
But does anyone out there think that this is the smoking gun some have been looking for the canon acknowledgement of the existence of the Starfleet Marines? I know that some people have mentioned "Yesterday's Enterprise" as evidence, but these people have been shot down by others saying that the story happened in an alternate timeline.
quote:Originally posted by Triton: Are the Military Assault Command Operations team the first canon evidence that Starfleet has an organization like the Marine Corps? I know that the idea of a Starfleet Marine Corps has been rejected by many on the grounds that Starfleet would not maintain a distinctly militaristic organization of dedicated soldiers, expecially those who would be intended as ground troops. Does the existence of the MACOs preclude the existence of a Starfleet Marine Corps or support it? I would speculate that with a different rank and ratings structure, the Military Assault Command Operations team is a separate service from Starfleet.
Comments?
Comments
I think it's more a "pre-Security". After all, unless I'm mistaken, Reed and his guys are only considered tactical officers and there's no real "security" ever been identified. These guys obviously aren't StarFleet, but will eventually be absorbed into SF to form that "combined service" that Kirk mentioned several times in TOS. At least, that's my thinking.
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posted
Jeffrey, I have always thought of Security as more related to the idea of Shore Patrol or Military Police than an infantry-like or trooper-like fighting force.
Plus, I also imagine that the Federation has an elite fighting force of commandos like the SAS/SBS in the UK and the the Navy SeALs/Army Delta Force in the US, plus the other dozen or so elite fighting forces around the world.
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Shik
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posted
That's "SEALS." SEa, Air Land, Space. Seriously, no joke.
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posted
I don't have a problem with Tactical and Security duties being handled by separate departments, shipboard, at this stage of history. After all, in TOS all ship-based weapons were generally operated by the helmsman (and by the navigator in the movies), and of course the main phaser control in "Balance of Terror." All of whom were generallky goldshirts, ie Command. While in "Devil in the Dark" we saw the Security teams, all redshirts, and commanded by Lt. Cdr. Giotto, also in Engineering/Ops colours. But by the movie era, maybe they're being combined - Chekov is tactical officer, and he's the one who calls off the security guards who rush to the kitchen in TUC.
I like this theory, but it's of a bugger that Reed & co's divisional colour is red, though. . .
quote:Snay is it possible that there is a Department of Starfleet Military Assault Command that is the Federation equivalent of the marines? Or would the name Military Assualt Command not appear in the name of the service? Like Millitary Airlift Command is part of the US Air Force?
Oh, I agree with you that there is a Federation army of some sort, most likely in the form of a Marine Corps, but I believe that it would be organized under Starfleet, in the same way that the USMC and the USN are organized in the Dept. of the Navy. My confusion stems from why this "Maco" might be a seperate entity from the Starfleet: certainly at this stage -- even if you go for Gene's "no military" beliefs -- it seems most likely that "Starfleet" has descended from some sort of NATO/UN military force, and so the probabilities of a seperate land-based fighting force seems implausible.
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quote:Originally posted by Sol System: I predict controversy on rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated.
There's controversy there everytime someone stands in a strong light source on a TV program. Or when a show is made that has a bigger budget than B5, WHICH MAKES JMS ANNOYED!
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quote:Originally posted by AndrewR: Daniel Dae Kim - so The Beast definately killed him on Angel!?!
I have no idea what you are talking about, but it might be a spoiler of some kind.
Now, granted, I am two seasons behind on Angel, but still, grr.
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
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quote:Originally posted by Lee: After all, in TOS all ship-based weapons were generally operated by the helmsman (and by the navigator in the movies), and of course the main phaser control in "Balance of Terror."
Except, well, no, because as you point out Chekov was tactical officer (and Chief of Security, I believe). And for the rest of the movies, his job was a crazy mess. I mean, Sulu was obviously stearing the Enterprise/Bird of Prey in the movies, but what did Chekov actually do? Apart from not know simple phaser alarm security rules? And occasionally saying brilliant lines like "Guess whose coming to dinner?"
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
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posted
TMP: Chekov is Tactical Officer, and the job is clearly distinct from Navigator (who continues to sit at the front two consoles with the helmsman); Tactical has one of the seats on the circle.
TWOK: Do we see who fires the phasers? Saavik sits out front and she's meant to be the Navigator, I believe. Where does Chekov go sit when he lets himself out of sickbay and reports to the Bridge?
TSFS: It's back to the old team of Sulu & Chekov out front; I don't think it's made clear whether Chekov is there as Navigator, or who does the weapons-firing.
TVH: Not really relevant, except at the end where again it's Sulu & Chekov out front on the E-A.
TFF: Still Sulu & Chekov, don't know who fires phasers.
TUC: Is Chekov ever explicitly stated to be the Navigator or Tactical officer? I think at this point the role of the Navigator is becoming diminished and absorbed into the Conn role. . .
G: However, on the E-B you have definite Conn and Nav positions out front.
Can anyone clear up any of the above? Not sure what my point it yet, I'm just thinking aloud.
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